Just 43% of Americans Identify as Protestant

[Kenny]

Wow! Reading comprehension fail.

Funny....

you make a statement with no supportive documentation. Red Herring Fallacy.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yes, I have heard that too... But i would wholeheartedly disagree.

It isn't that there aren't miracles, in my view, but it is relegated to natural causes, bad diagnosis or simply "I don't believe it".

Smith Wigglesworth was a renown person who had miracles happening in ministry. Dr. John G Lake is another modern preacher who had miracles.

There are current preachers too.

Side note: MOST DOCTORS BELIEVE IN MIRACLES - 74% Of Doctors Believe In Miracles, 55% Have Seen Them. The poll also indicated that American physicians are surprisingly religious, with 72% indicating they believe that religion provides a reliable and necessary guide to life.

puricare chronicles: MOST DOCTORS BELIEVE IN MIRACLES - 74% Of Doctors Believe In Miracles, 55% Have Seen Them. The poll also indicated that American physicians are surprisingly religious, with 72% indicating they believe that religion provides a reliable and necessary guide to life.

Since it appears that more than this percentage in the general population believe in miracles, at least having some education (in medical practice) tends to guard against belief in such - so some progress then.

Do You Believe in Miracles? | Psychology Today

 

[Subduction Zone]

Funny....

you make a statement with no supportive documentation. Red Herring Fallacy.

None was needed. I made no claim that required "supportive documentation". You have a huge reading comprehension fail. And you are also incorrectly trying to apply a logical fallacy again. I have yet to see you use one properly. Go back and see if you can find your error. Or you could ask politely.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

How is it a myth if true? Now you appear to be making a claim that puts the burden of proof on you. How do you know that there are more theistic than non-theistic Satanists?

It's a myth precisely because it's an unsubstantiated claim. There are no statistics that exist which put non-theistic Satanists being the majority of Satanists. It's just something some people have repeated over and over again.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I never said that I believe that the character in the gospels represents the real Jesus, but I believe everything that Baha'u'llah wrote about Jesus is true because I believe Baha'u'llah knew more than any man, since like Jesus, He was more than a man; He was a Manifestation of God who received His knowledge from God. Had Jesus ever written anything in His Own Pen, and it could be verified to be from Him, I would believe that just as much as I believe what Baha'u'llah wrote.

Well, I respect your position, Trailblazer. My take is a little different. I don't believe God sent Jesus any more than he sent you or me. I'm sure you've read my other posts where I say that I believe based on the evidence that it was Greek scholars 50-100 years in the future from Jesus who wrote every word attributed to him. They had no eyewitnesses to draw from anything Jesus said. They had no written records of Jesus' sayings because far as we know nobody wrote anything down. maybe they did and it was lost to time. We simply don't know. So I have to take the position that until we can find something attributed to Jesus written earlier than 70 CE we just assume what's in the gospels was created by the gospel writers living in Greece who drew on myths and legends circulating around the Mediterranean of a wise teacher in Israel. I believe Jesus was an ordinary Jewish rebel who was crucified as a seditionist against Rome. I go with Reza Aslan's portrait of Jesus in "Zealot".

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

You mean,“....than they were.”

(Since we’re talking about education.)

Yes. Typo.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

The concept of hell is not from the Bible. Many people refer to Jesus talking about "gehenna" but this is not hell. Hades is not "hell" either. Bible translators have confused the meaning of these words by incorporating pagan ideas of punishment for the wicked.

The Hebrew word "sheol" simply meant the grave. Its Greek equivalent is "hades"which must also mean just the grave where the dead "Rest in Peace".

When Jesus spoke of "gehenna" he said...."And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."

You can see from this that "gehenna" is a place where body and soul are "destroyed", not tormented. There is no suffering in "gehenna".

Gehenna was originally the Valley of Hinnom outside the walls of Jerusalem where the apostate Israelites were worshipping the Ammonite god Molech by sacrificing their children in the fire. God stopped the practice and turned the valley into Jerusalem's garbage dump. Fires were kept burning day and night by the addition of brimstone (sulfur) to consume the refuse. The carcasses of dead animals and the bodies of executed criminals were often thrown into the fire for disposal. What the flames missed the maggots finished off.

Anyone thrown into gehenna was considered not worthy of a decent burial and therefore not worthy of a resurrection. It was a symbol of everlasting death, which is the opposite of everlasting life.

Bold above--the Bible has been corrupted by pagan influences, in other words?

 

[Kenny]

None was needed. I made no claim that required "supportive documentation". You have a huge reading comprehension fail. And you are also incorrectly trying to apply a logical fallacy again. I have yet to see you use one properly. Go back and see if you can find your error. Or you could ask politely.

I don't see the logic not to mention I applied the fallacy correctly... a comprehension fail on your part.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's a myth precisely because it's an unsubstantiated claim. There are no statistics that exist which put non-theistic Satanists being the majority of Satanists. It's just something some people have repeated over and over again.

I don't think that is the proper use of the term "myth". Both of the main Satanic groups in the U.S., the Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan, are non-theistic. It is rather hard to find much information on theistic Satanists. I am sure that they do exist, but they appear to be a rather small minority, at least here. Maybe there are more in Europe. Who knows?

 

[Kenny]

Since you do not see the logic then you are simply not qualified to apply logical fallacies. And please, don't accuse others of your failings. You could have asked politely instead of digging the hole deeper.

If you want proper answers ask proper questions (in other words, don't be a jerk).

Just following your lead, my friend

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I don't think that is the proper use of the term "myth". Both of the main Satanic groups in the U.S., the Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan, are non-theistic. It is rather hard to find much information on theistic Satanists. I am sure that they do exist, but they appear to be a rather small minority, at least here. Maybe there are more in Europe. Who knows?

A widely held unsupported belief is a myth.

Not being in a denominational organization doesn't mean you're not part of the larger umbrella. Theistic Satanism, like most LHP and many pagans aside, has traditionally been many small covens over large single entities.

But Satanic Temple and CoS are no more the 'main' Satanists than OCS, Lucifarians, ONA, JoS (though **** those guys), Setians who identify as Satanists, etc etc. You just probably haven't looked into them.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

God could have made Us all inherently ....
Honest
Truthful
compassionate.
peaceful
loving
helpful
conscientious

But he did not..

Yes, Jehovah did. Our first human parents were made that way. Unfortunately, they made some bad choices, and rebelled. They lost some of those traits that originally came naturally. As their offspring, we couldn’t inherit what they had lost.

But I know many people who display those qualities,
Honest
Truthful
compassionate.
peaceful
loving
helpful
conscientious.

My wife is one....I try.
We all have the ability, to some degree or another. It’s a struggle, many times.
But our built-in conscience helps.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just following your lead, my friend

You really are not. But then that is a typical tactic of yours.

It helps if you do not start out your exercise with a massive error.

 

[Trailblazer]

but the Bible is loaded with practical wisdom.

That practical wisdom is not subject to change over time, and is always useful since human nature does not change that much over time, but the Bible is not the only Holy Book that contains that practical wisdom.

This practical wisdom is related to spiritual truths which are eternal and will never be abrogated; they are faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy. However, over time people tend to forget these truths so they have to be renewed by God in every age.

“These divine qualities, these eternal commandments, will never be abolished; nay, they will last and remain established for ever and ever. These virtues of humanity will be renewed in each of the different cycles; for at the end of every cycle the spiritual Law of God—that is to say, the human virtues—disappears, and only the form subsists.” Some Answered Questions, p. 47

In addition, the world we live in changes over time so we need new social teachings and laws in every age that are suitable to the times in which we live.

“The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries—this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.” Some Answered Questions, p. 48

 

[Subduction Zone]

A widely held unsupported belief is a myth.

Not being in a denominational organization doesn't mean you're not part of the larger umbrella. Theistic Satanism, like most LHP and many pagans aside, has traditionally been many small covens over large single entities.

But Satanic Temple and CoS are no more the 'main' Satanists than OCS, Lucifarians, ONA, JoS (though **** those guys), Seitan's who identify as Satanists, etc etc. You just probably haven't looked into them.

Then not a myth since the observations indicate that Satanist

A widely held unsupported belief is a myth.

Not being in a denominational organization doesn't mean you're not part of the larger umbrella. Theistic Satanism, like most LHP and many pagans aside, has traditionally been many small covens over large single entities.

But Satanic Temple and CoS are no more the 'main' Satanists than OCS, Lucifarians, ONA, JoS (though **** those guys), Setians who identify as Satanists, etc etc. You just probably haven't looked into them.

Okay, I could only find the Lucifarians, they appear to be non-theistic, and the Setians, those appear to be theistic. But they also seem to be very minor groups. I acknowledged that some Satanists were theistic, but any search into Satanism implies that most are non-theistic. I do not see a myth there when it comes to my claim.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hey Trailblazer, hope you’re having a good day.

the Bible is not the only Holy Book that contains that practical wisdom.

If I may, let me ask you this...
Do you see the wisdom in keeping sexual relations between a husband & wife?

Because I do, very much. I’d just like your opinion.

Do you think there are psychological effects from promiscuity?

 

[Trailblazer]

So I have to take the position that until we can find something attributed to Jesus written earlier than 70 CE we just assume what's in the gospels was created by the gospel writers living in Greece who drew on myths and legends circulating around the Mediterranean of a wise teacher in Israel.

I cannot say I disagree with your position. The other position is a faith-based position that the gospel stories are true simply because they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but since it is logically impossible for anyone to know what Jesus actually said and did it makes more sense to me that the gospels drew upon myths and legends circulating around that time.

 

[thomas t]

The Bible makes crimes out of things no one should feel guilty for. Like consensual sex. Or enjoying worldly things while we can. "Original sin" makes us guilty just for being born. We all deserve Hell. That guilt is not natural.

I believe God is a great and loving God.
Even if I read your posts.

Consensual sex can lead to an abortion.
In Germany, there are some 100k abortions every year. I would estimate a 99% of these abortion occured after consensual sex.
The unborn life suffers here.

You can enjoy stuff.

Original sin is the name of a theological concept (from the Catholics and others).
You won't find this concept of being sinful for being born in the Bible.

Instead, Paul says, all people are "made sinners". Romans 5:19.
In my opinion it's like being infected by an illness.
If you come from a family at which your father yelled at you... you will end up yelling at your children probably... and so on.
In my opinion, it's about bad habits being passed on from the moment Adam started sinning.
The Bible says frankly: all people sinned.

But God provided the solution: Jesus Christ.
This is how I see the situation here.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Then not a myth since the observations indicate that Satanist

Okay, I could only find the Lucifarians, they appear to be non-theistic, and the Setians, those appear to be theistic. But they also seem to be very minor groups. I acknowledged that some Satanists were theistic, but any search into Satanism implies that most are non-theistic. I do not see a myth there when it comes to my claim.

*sigh*
Theistic Satanism - Wikipedia
Luciferianism
Our Lady of Endor Coven
Temple of Set - Wikipedia
Order of Nine Angles - Wikipedia
Joy of Satan Ministries
Temple of the Black Light - Wikipedia
These are just some of the official organizations under Theistic Satanism and again does not include the myriad of nondenominational covens.
Please show me some evidence, any evidence, that nontheistic Satanists are more numerous, or at least concede that the presumption is just that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hey Trailblazer, hope you’re having a good day.

Thanks, but it did not start out well because I woke up too early and could not go back to sleep so I am really tired.

If I may, let me ask you this...
Do you see the wisdom in keeping sexual relations between a husband & wife?

Because I do, very much. I’d just like your opinion.

Do you think there are psychological effects from promiscuity?

I definitely see the wisdom in keeping sexual relations between a husband and wife and that is required by Baha'i law.

I definitely think there are psychological effects from promiscuity and such behavior is disallowed on my religion.

An authoritative Baha'i position on sexual matters is cited below. Please note that this was written by the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith in the mid-1900s and how much things have deteriorated since then.

"The Bahá'í Faith recognizes the value of the sex impulse, but condemns its illegitimate and improper expressions such as free love, companionate marriage and others, all of which it considers positively harmful to man and to the society in which he lives. The proper use of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage has been established. The Bahá'ís do not believe in the suppression of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.'

In response to another letter enquiring if there were any legitimate way in which a person could express the sex instinct if, for some reason, he were unable to marry or if outer circumstances such as economic factors were to cause him to delay marriage, the Guardian's secretary wrote on his behalf:

'Concerning your question whether there are any legitimate forms of expression of the sex instinct outside of marriage: According to the Bahá'í Teachings no sexual act can be considered lawful unless performed between lawfully married persons. Outside of marital life there can be no lawful or healthy use of the sex impulse…….

In another letter on the Guardian's behalf, also to an individual believer, the secretary writes:

'Amongst the many other evils afflicting society in this spiritual low water mark in history is the question of immorality, and over-emphasis of sex...'

This indicates how the whole matter of sex and the problems related to it have assumed far too great an importance in the thinking of present-day society."

Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File, pp. 364-365