Am I saved if I have a different biblical interpretation of the oneness of God?

[Fallen Prophet]

Your misinterpreting what Jesus said about the unpardonable sin.

Could you please explain how I am misinterpreting what He said about the unpardonable sin?

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." (Matthew 12:31)

Seems pretty clear to me. ALL SINS SHALL BE FORGIVEN - except the sin (or blasphemy) against the Holy Ghost.

He set no conditions upon the forgiveness of sins. Everyone will be forgiven of all their sins - unless they commit the unpardonable sin - even those who go to Hell.

But the only way any sins are forgiven is by the blood of Jesus.

Of course - I never said otherwise.

If it were not for the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ - no sins could ever be forgiven and we all would have been consigned to Hell forever.

It is because of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ that we can repent of our sins and Hell is a temporary condition.

I don't understand how anything I have shared convinced you that sins can be forgiven in any other way than through Christ.

This makes no sense.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This verse is often misinterpreted in my opinion.

"Grace" is "divine help" - not "divine doing everything for you". If it were then why do the scriptures instruct us to do anything?

The Lord Jesus Christs helps us overcome our sins and we gain access to that divine help through our faith.

Faith is an action word. It requires us to do something. Become something.

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Eternal life is a gift from God because He is under no obligation to offer it to us - but we must still exercise our faith and emulate His Son to become worthy of it.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Could you please explain how I am misinterpreting what He said about the unpardonable sin?

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." (Matthew 12:31)

Seems pretty clear to me. ALL SINS SHALL BE FORGIVEN - except the sin (or blasphemy) against the Holy Ghost.

He set no conditions upon the forgiveness of sins. Everyone will be forgiven of all their sins - unless they commit the unpardonable sin - even those who go to Hell.

Of course - I never said otherwise.

If it were not for the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ - no sins could ever be forgiven and we all would have been consigned to Hell forever.

It is because of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ that we can repent of our sins and Hell is a temporary condition.

I don't understand how anything I have shared convinced you that sins can be forgiven in any other way than through Christ.

This makes no sense.

This verse is often misinterpreted in my opinion.

"Grace" is "divine help" - not "divine doing everything for you". If it were then why do the scriptures instruct us to do anything?

The Lord Jesus Christs helps us overcome our sins and we gain access to that divine help through our faith.

Faith is an action word. It requires us to do something. Become something.

Eternal life is a gift from God because He is under no obligation to offer it to us - but we must still exercise our faith and emulate His Son to become worthy of it.

It’s clear that eternal life is a gift, its not earned, you cannot buy it, it’s a gift offered by God and it’s either received or rejected.
Once a person rejects Jesus Christ gift and dies it’s too late to be saved, once a person has been judged at the white throne judgement and is cast into hell there is no getting out. Nowhere does God say hell (lake of fire) is temporary.
Scriptures are clear, don’t add to them, not sure why you are.
What do you believe the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is today?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

It’s clear that eternal life is a gift, its not earned, you cannot buy it, it’s a gift offered by God and it’s either received or rejected.
Once a person rejects Jesus Christ gift and dies it’s too late to be saved, once a person has been judged at the white throne judgement and is cast into hell there is no getting out. Nowhere does God say hell (lake of fire) is temporary.
Scriptures are clear, don’t add to them, not sure why you are.
What do you believe the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is today?

Literally everything I have shared comes straight from the scriptures.

Accepting a gift is an "action" - as I said. We need to accept it - do something - in order to receive the gift.

That action is exercising our faith by accepting Christ and doing what he has taught.

That is how you accept the gift of eternal life. That's how you "earn" it. It is "bought" by your faith and obedience.

You're just trying to play word games - claiming that I am wrong - then you explained that I was right. No sense.

If every sin is to be forgiven - as the Lord Jesus Christ claimed - even sins against Himself - then rejecting Him can be forgiven - since it is not the unpardonable sin.

Revelation 20 clearly teaches that the dead shall leave Hell and that Hell will be cast into the "lake of fire" - so Hell is obviously not the "lake of fire". Both death and Hell are temporary conditions that will have served their purpose and have an end after our Final Judgment.

You are the one adding to (or rather ignoring) the scriptures here - not me.

In order for someone to commit the unpardonable sin - or blasphemy against the Holy Ghost - one would need to receive the witness of the Holy Ghost concerning the existence of God and the reality of His Son - which is a greater witness than sight - know it for the truth - meaning you no longer live by faith but pure knowledge - then still decide to turn against the truth and deny Them.

I can only think of two candidates from the scriptures that meet that standard - Cain, son of Adam and Judas Iscariot. There may be more - but they are not so clearly pointed out.

Cain spoke with God personally and still rejected Him and His counsel. Judas knew the Lord personally and saw all those prophecies fulfill and he still betrayed Him.

You are going to be surprised by how many people are going to be forgiven and saved from death and sin. Sure - they may not live up to their eternal potential or receive all the blessings God has in store for the faithful - but they will not be cast off forever - and they will have a place in His Kingdom.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Literally everything I have shared comes straight from the scriptures.

Accepting a gift is an "action" - as I said. We need to accept it - do something - in order to receive the gift.

That action is exercising our faith by accepting Christ and doing what he has taught.

That is how you accept the gift of eternal life. That's how you "earn" it. It is "bought" by your faith and obedience.

You're just trying to play word games - claiming that I am wrong - then you explained that I was right. No sense.

If every sin is to be forgiven - as the Lord Jesus Christ claimed - even sins against Himself - then rejecting Him can be forgiven - since it is not the unpardonable sin.

Revelation 20 clearly teaches that the dead shall leave Hell and that Hell will be cast into the "lake of fire" - so Hell is obviously not the "lake of fire". Both death and Hell are temporary conditions that will have served their purpose and have an end after our Final Judgment.

You are the one adding to (or rather ignoring) the scriptures here - not me.

In order for someone to commit the unpardonable sin - or blasphemy against the Holy Ghost - one would need to receive the witness of the Holy Ghost concerning the existence of God and the reality of His Son - which is a greater witness than sight - know it for the truth - meaning you no longer live by faith but pure knowledge - then still decide to turn against the truth and deny Them.

I can only think of two candidates from the scriptures that meet that standard - Cain, son of Adam and Judas Iscariot. There may be more - but they are not so clearly pointed out.

Cain spoke with God personally and still rejected Him and His counsel. Judas knew the Lord personally and saw all those prophecies fulfill and he still betrayed Him.

You are going to be surprised by how many people are going to be forgiven and saved from death and sin. Sure - they may not live up to their eternal potential or receive all the blessings God has in store for the faithful - but they will not be cast off forever - and they will have a place in His Kingdom.

My wife gave gave me a birthday present, I earned it by opening the present and enjoying it. Ok sure that makes sense.
I’m hoping no one goes to hell and suffers for ever, not into it, want everyone to go to Heaven in paradise with God. Sadly, I know that’s not the case. Sure you share Scripture but then put your own opinions on the meaning.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Literally everything I have shared comes straight from the scriptures.

Accepting a gift is an "action" - as I said. We need to accept it - do something - in order to receive the gift.

That action is exercising our faith by accepting Christ and doing what he has taught.

That is how you accept the gift of eternal life. That's how you "earn" it. It is "bought" by your faith and obedience.

You're just trying to play word games - claiming that I am wrong - then you explained that I was right. No sense.

If every sin is to be forgiven - as the Lord Jesus Christ claimed - even sins against Himself - then rejecting Him can be forgiven - since it is not the unpardonable sin.

Revelation 20 clearly teaches that the dead shall leave Hell and that Hell will be cast into the "lake of fire" - so Hell is obviously not the "lake of fire". Both death and Hell are temporary conditions that will have served their purpose and have an end after our Final Judgment.

You are the one adding to (or rather ignoring) the scriptures here - not me.

In order for someone to commit the unpardonable sin - or blasphemy against the Holy Ghost - one would need to receive the witness of the Holy Ghost concerning the existence of God and the reality of His Son - which is a greater witness than sight - know it for the truth - meaning you no longer live by faith but pure knowledge - then still decide to turn against the truth and deny Them.

I can only think of two candidates from the scriptures that meet that standard - Cain, son of Adam and Judas Iscariot. There may be more - but they are not so clearly pointed out.

Cain spoke with God personally and still rejected Him and His counsel. Judas knew the Lord personally and saw all those prophecies fulfill and he still betrayed Him.

You are going to be surprised by how many people are going to be forgiven and saved from death and sin. Sure - they may not live up to their eternal potential or receive all the blessings God has in store for the faithful - but they will not be cast off forever - and they will have a place in His Kingdom.

““But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:5-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
If a person blasphemes the Holy Spirit today they harden their heart to the conviction of the Holy Spirit of their sin and unable to repent and believe the Gospel

 

[Katzpur]

I can only think of two candidates from the scriptures that meet that standard - Cain, son of Adam and Judas Iscariot. There may be more - but they are not so clearly pointed out.

I'm not sure I totally agree when it comes to either Cain or Judas. Cain, after all, committed murder, but murder is not the "unforgivable sin." Cain had been born after Adam and Eve had been cast out of the Garden of Eden, so he didn't know God in the same respect as his father had done. And as for Judas, despite his close association with Jesus for the three years of His ministry, I'm not convinced that he had "[received] the witness of the Holy Ghost concerning the existence of God and the reality of His Son... [and] know it for the truth - meaning [he] no longer [lived] by faith but pure knowledge - then still [decided] to turn against the truth and deny Them." The reason I say this is that it seems to me that Judas was in pretty much the same position as most of the other Apostles. All of them still just walked in faith. It's just that some of them evidently had more faith than others. Thomas, for instance, who had known Jesus for as long as Judas had, refused to acknowledge Christ's resurrection until he had concrete proof, and I certainly don't believe that he committed blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Besides, Judas never "denied" Christ. He "betrayed" Him to the authorities. It was a different thing entirely.

Now I can think of three individuals who would have been in a position to commit the unpardonable sin had they denied Christ (which they did not). They were, of course, Peter, James, and John. I believe that after the Transfiguration, they did have a perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ as the Son of God. In other words, they'd have had no excuse had they denied the witness they'd received. I'm personally going to continue to give Cain and Judas the benefit of the doubt (as if I'll have anything to say about it in the end).

 

[Fallen Prophet]

I'm not sure I totally agree when it comes to either Cain or Judas. Cain, after all, committed murder, but murder is not the "unforgivable sin." Cain had been born after Adam and Eve had been cast out of the Garden of Eden, so he didn't know God in the same respect as his father had done. And as for Judas, despite his close association with Jesus for the three years of His ministry, I'm not convinced that he had "[received] the witness of the Holy Ghost concerning the existence of God and the reality of His Son... [and] know it for the truth - meaning [he] no longer [lived] by faith but pure knowledge - then still [decided] to turn against the truth and deny Them." The reason I say this is that it seems to me that Judas was in pretty much the same position as most of the other Apostles. All of them still just walked in faith. It's just that some of them evidently had more faith than others. Thomas, for instance, who had known Jesus for as long as Judas had, refused to acknowledge Christ's resurrection until he had concrete proof, and I certainly don't believe that he committed blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Besides, Judas never "denied" Christ. He "betrayed" Him to the authorities. It was a different thing entirely.

Now I can think of three individuals who would have been in a position to commit the unpardonable sin had they denied Christ (which they did not). They were, of course, Peter, James, and John. I believe that after the Transfiguration, they did have a perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ as the Son of God. In other words, they'd have had no excuse had they denied the witness they'd received. I'm personally going to continue to give Cain and Judas the benefit of the doubt (as if I'll have anything to say about it in the end).

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

I believe the Bible records Cain speaking to God personally - the whole "Am I my brother's keeper?" thing - so that would fit the standard in my opinion.

The Lord was the one who called Judas to be an Apostle - which he voluntarily accepted - and I don't think the Lord would have left Judas ignorant of the ramifications of denying/betraying Him associated with that calling.

We will find out in the great beyond - but to me - these two meet the standard or are at least the closest ones to meeting the standard.

If they didn't commit it - then no one ever can - I guess is my stance.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

My wife gave gave me a birthday present, I earned it by opening the present and enjoying it. Ok sure that makes sense.
I’m hoping no one goes to hell and suffers for ever, not into it, want everyone to go to Heaven in paradise with God. Sadly, I know that’s not the case. Sure you share Scripture but then put your own opinions on the meaning.

You just did the very thing that you accused me of.

Where in the scriptures does it say that Hell lasts forever?

Where in the scriptures does it say that Heaven and Paradise are the same place?

Where in the scriptures does it say that God dwells in Paradise?

I quoted scriptures that claimed - without any need for interpretation - that all sins save one will be forgiven and that Hell will eventually be cast into the "lake of fire".

If you don't have faith in Christ and strive to do as He taught - you'll never open that present.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

““But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:5-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
If a person blasphemes the Holy Spirit today they harden their heart to the conviction of the Holy Spirit of their sin and unable to repent and believe the Gospel

Who was the Lord speaking to in these verses? His disciples or the entire world?

Only those who have accepted the Lord and His Gospel have any chance of committing the unpardonable sin.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You just did the very thing that you accused me of.

Where in the scriptures does it say that Hell lasts forever?

Where in the scriptures does it say that Heaven and Paradise are the same place?

Where in the scriptures does it say that God dwells in Paradise?

I quoted scriptures that claimed - without any need for interpretation - that all sins save one will be forgiven and that Hell will eventually be cast into the "lake of fire".

If you don't have faith in Christ and strive to do as He taught - you'll never open that present.

“The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:10-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Clearly says forever and ever

 

[ElishaElijah]

Who was the Lord speaking to in these verses? His disciples or the entire world?

Only those who have accepted the Lord and His Gospel have any chance of committing the unpardonable sin.

He was speaking to the Pharisees in Matthew 12 who were saying Jesus was performing miracles by satanic power of Beelzebub and speaking against the Holy Spirit. Was speaking to his disciples in the other verses where Jesus explained the role of the Holy Spirit now.

 

[Katzpur]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

I'm okay with that.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

“The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:10-15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Clearly says forever and ever

Yes - those who go to the "lake of fire" will suffer endless torment - but what you just quoted claims that Hell (hades) is not the "lake of fire".

These verses claim that Hell (Hades) shall deliver up the dead that it contains to be judged according to their works.

"Then Death and Hades (Hell) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

No where does it say that all the dead that left Hell (Hades) to be judged will be sent to the "lake of fire".

Only those whose names are not found in the Book of Life go to the "lake of fire" and no one would know if their name is in the Book of Life until after their Final Judgment takes place which is after they are released from Hell (Hades).

Our Final Judgment does not take place before we die or while we are awaiting our Resurrection as spirits but after the Lord returns, reigns on Earth for a thousand years and the Final Battle takes place.

Then all the dead will be Resurrected - which releases them from death - are judged according to their works and will come to know if their names are written in the Book of Life.

And since all sins will be forgiven - save the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost - I believe that Book is gonna be full of names.

If being sent to Hell (Hades) was grounds to be sent to the "lake of fire" then why does Revelation claim that they are to be judged after their time in Hell (Hades)? Hasn't their judgment already taken place? They are judged twice?

You are casting judgment on those in Hell (Hades) before they are actually judged. Why are they released from Hell and judged at all if their fate is already sealed?

You are essentially putting the cart before the horse.

You are also claiming that Hell (Hades) is the same place as the "lake of fire" - which the verses you quoted deny. (Unless you are arguing that Hell (Hades) is going to be cast into itself?)

Only the devil, the beast, the false prophet, death, Hell (Hades) and those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will go to the "lake of fire" and suffer endless torment.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

I'm okay with that.

I honestly hope you're right cause - and I know I'm weird - but I've always wanted to meet those guys - pick their brains.

Would be kinda hard if they were in Outer Darkness.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yes - those who go to the "lake of fire" will suffer endless torment - but what you just quoted claims that Hell (hades) is not the "lake of fire".

These verses claim that Hell (Hades) shall deliver up the dead that it contains to be judged according to their works.

"Then Death and Hades (Hell) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

No where does it say that all the dead that left Hell (Hades) to be judged will be sent to the "lake of fire".

Only those whose names are not found in the Book of Life go to the "lake of fire" and no one would know if their name is in the Book of Life until after their Final Judgment takes place which is after they are released from Hell (Hades).

Our Final Judgment does not take place before we die or while we are awaiting our Resurrection as spirits but after the Lord returns, reigns on Earth for a thousand years and the Final Battle takes place.

Then all the dead will be Resurrected - which releases them from death - are judged according to their works and will come to know if their names are written in the Book of Life.

And since all sins will be forgiven - save the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost - I believe that Book is gonna be full of names.

If being sent to Hell (Hades) was grounds to be sent to the "lake of fire" then why does Revelation claim that they are to be judged after their time in Hell (Hades)? Hasn't their judgment already taken place? They are judged twice?

You are casting judgment on those in Hell (Hades) before they are actually judged. Why are they released from Hell and judged at all if their fate is already sealed?

You are essentially putting the cart before the horse.

You are also claiming that Hell (Hades) is the same place as the "lake of fire" - which the verses you quoted deny. (Unless you are arguing that Hell (Hades) is going to be cast into itself?)

Only the devil, the beast, the false prophet, death, Hell (Hades) and those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will go to the "lake of fire" and suffer endless torment.

Correct on Hades is the grave, final judgement is the White Throne judgement that is for Satan, fallen angels and people who rejected Jesus Christ offer of eternal life. No believers are judged at the White Throne judgement. Only way to avoid the White Throne judgement is to accept Jesus Christ while you’re alive, appointed to man once to die then the judgement. People who have died without Christ are not in the lake of fire yet but will be at the end.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Correct on Hades is the grave, final judgement is the White Throne judgement that is for Satan, fallen angels and people who rejected Jesus Christ offer of eternal life. No believers are judged at the White Throne judgement. Only way to avoid the White Throne judgement is to accept Jesus Christ while you’re alive, appointed to man once to die then the judgement. People who have died without Christ are not in the lake of fire yet but will be at the end.

Nothing you just said is Biblical.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nothing you just said is Biblical.

All right there in 20 clearly written and explained in other scriptures but your view isn’t in the Scriptures, I will be at the judgement seat of Christ which is different than the White Throne judgement.
“Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭5:9-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[37818]

Scriptures, I will be at the judgement seat of Christ which is different than the White Throne judgement.

That is an interpretation.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

All right there in 20 clearly written and explained in other scriptures but your view isn’t in the Scriptures, I will be at the judgement seat of Christ which is different than the White Throne judgement.
“Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭5:9-10‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Everyone will appear before the judgment seat of Christ - which is the Final Judgment.

Where is there a mention of this "White Throne Judgment" and why do you believe God would have two different judgments?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Everyone will appear before the judgment seat of Christ - which is the Final Judgment.

Where is there a mention of this "White Throne Judgment" and why do you believe God would have two different judgments?

Everyone will appear before the judgment seat of Christ - which is the Final Judgment.

Where is there a mention of this "White Throne Judgment" and why do you believe God would have two different judgments?

Mentioned in the Bible