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Am I saved if I have a different biblical interpretation of the oneness of God?

Andrew Reil

Member
I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.

Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

My question therefore is, if I interpret John 17:21 that "one" in the way that the followers of Jesus can be aligned perfectly with Him, the same way that Jesus Christ is already perfectly aligned with His Father, than does that interpretation nullify me?

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Your illumination on the topic would be appreciated.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Well, I wouldn't worry too much about what others think about me.

I myself am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I worship Him, Jehovah (Psalms 83:18), aka Yahweh, as Jesus did (John 20:17).

Remember the two greatest commandments, to 'love God w/ your whole soul, mind & strength...and your neighbor as yourself'? Matthew 22:37-39? Follow those...loving God means "coming to know" Him (and His son) (John 17:3) & being obedient to His commandments (1 John 5:3). Loving others means being kind & concerned for their welfare.

The apostle Peter stated, "I perceive that God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears Him & works righteousness is acceptable to Him." -- Acts of the Apostles 10:34-35

And KEEP SEARCHING the Scriptures! Pray for help to Yahweh / Jehovah, the Father (John 14:1).

Best wishes, my cousin.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I'm sorry, I keep seeing statements in your post that I feel require a response....
Regarding the trinity...
Psalms 83:18 says Jehovah is THE MOST HIGH. He has no head. But according to 1 Corinthians 11:3, Jesus does have a head.

Jesus is our Savior (whom God sent), not our God.

Keep up your study of the Scriptures!
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.

Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

My question therefore is, if I interpret John 17:21 that "one" in the way that the followers of Jesus can be aligned perfectly with Him, the same way that Jesus Christ is already perfectly aligned with His Father, than does that interpretation nullify me?

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Your illumination on the topic would be appreciated.
As a sufi muslim i might not have a good answer for you. But i believe if you live a righteous life and do everything in your power to better your self as a Christian who do as Jesus asked of you, you have a good chance of being saved :)

But saved only by belief, that i personally do not believe in.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

Perhaps then it boils down to “who” you believe, rather than just “what” you believe? It also depends on where a person has come from in their spiritual journey....in Jesus’ day, he preached to his fellow Jews, who were already in a dedicated relationship with God. But he had issues with the teachings of the Pharisees, saying that they “taught the commands of men as doctrine”. (Matthew 15:7-9) so even though they had God’s word, they did not teach it correctly, but added many detailed explanations to it that were not necessary and that warped what God had originally said.
If the person or organization who teaches us has the wrong message to convey, shouldn’t we be informed about that?

As Paul said....
11 For the scripture says: “No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out?”

What did that mean back then to those first Christians?

If there is “the same Lord over all” then we should get to know him and the one whom he sent. (John 17:3)

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

Since the Bible does not teach that Jesus is part of a triune godhead, it is my belief that steering clear of that belief is a good thing. Jesus never said he was God...not once. To put another god in place of the Father is a breach of the first Commandment. (Exodus 20:3)

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

I guess that people in Christendom all believe the same set of core beliefs....and if you do not accept that core, then you cannot be acceptable to them as a Christian. But Jesus’ words at the time of the judgment are sobering because “many” are going to suffer complete rejection. It will shock them.

Matthew 7:21-23...
Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’“

So just acknowledging Jesus as your “Lord”, unless you are “doing the will of the Father” it means very little. When we are taught scripture and the value of it, we cannot afford to get things wrong. If God is the author of scripture, then there will be no contradiction or deviation from what is written in his word. There was to be no other scripture....no additions to what was written....and no other prophets because Jesus was the last prophet.

From creation to the final test of Revelation, all scripture must harmonize because it is inspired by the same author.

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Since Jesus promised to resurrect both the righteous and the unrighteousness, calling them from the same place (their tombs. John 5:28-29) we can be sure that God’s original purpose for this earth and all the life he established here will finally be at realized (Isaiah 55:11)....all will be at peace with the Creator, reconciled through the sacrifice of Christ, his obedient son.

As far as “salvation” is concerned, well that is for Jesus to judge. From his words in Matthew 7:21-23, it is apparent that “many” will not make the cut, despite all the things they said that they had done “in his name”.

So from my perspective, there can only be one truth, and Jesus said that no one can come to him without an invitation from his Father. (John 6:44, 65) So as one who reads hearts, it is up to God to reveal his truth to whomever he wishes. But as history demonstrates, the God of the Bible is a God of order and organization. He has always had one people who were taught one truth (1 Corinthians 1:10) and they were gathered together for worship as one body of believers. (Hebrews 10:24-25) No one was allowed to bring in any beliefs from outside of what was provided by God in his word....

So that is how I see the situation.....we have to make the choice to worship the true God as he says he must be worshipped, not deviating to the right or to the left.....(Isaiah 30:21)
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.

Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

My question therefore is, if I interpret John 17:21 that "one" in the way that the followers of Jesus can be aligned perfectly with Him, the same way that Jesus Christ is already perfectly aligned with His Father, than does that interpretation nullify me?

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Your illumination on the topic would be appreciated.

Being atheist I have no comment on being saved by which of the thousands of branches of christianity you follow, i am content with the really of the 1st law of thermodynamics.

However what i can say is welcome to RF. Sit back, relax, enjoy the banter and the free cake

3291372281_d72ef5e24f_b (1).jpg
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.

Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

My question therefore is, if I interpret John 17:21 that "one" in the way that the followers of Jesus can be aligned perfectly with Him, the same way that Jesus Christ is already perfectly aligned with His Father, than does that interpretation nullify me?

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Your illumination on the topic would be appreciated.
Nobody can know who is saved and who not. I find it impertinent of some Christians try to lay down the law about the conditions required. Apart from anything else it seems to me monstrous to believe that those who have been brought up in other religions cannot be saved.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

That's a good question and the answer may vary person to person as you have noted.

Ultimately, IMV, it is God who will be the determinant and not man.

My sister was a member of the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for decades and I believe during that time she was, indeed, saved. However, today she would be classified as non-denominational Christian who has rejected the teachings of Joseph Smith and is still "saved".

What happens in your teachings to the person who rejects the teachings of Joseph Smith?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

In my studies, I believe that person is still saved. It is not what you know but who you know--Jesus!
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What does being "saved" mean, really? Does it mean have you met the sufficient criteria to be accepted into the group? Have you performed the prescribed rituals and taking the necessary vows in order to have the checkbox marked next to your name in the membership roster for heaven? Are you a valid member of Club Jesus, or an outsider?

I think that most Christians tend to think of salvation in terms like that. It's a positional, technicality that means you are either embraced by God's love, or spit out the other end if you don't measure up or met the basic requirements for admission into paradise. I find that way of thinking about it to be rather self-serving and ego-facing.

If you consider the metaphor of "saved" or "salvation" more in terms of something much more tangible, such as the end of suffering in your life, then it has more meaning, as well as actual value. In that case, very few are actually "saved". Throngs of believers exiting the church doors, have little to know actual experience of the Divine in their lives. Is simply believing somethings to be true then, the meaning of salvation or being "saved"?

When you consider that Jesus himself extolled how that a Roman Centurion, a pagan, had greater faith than anyone he'd seen in all of Israel, right there you can see that what most Christians ideas of what "saved" means, dependent upon correct beliefs and practices, is to say the least suspect.
 

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
It's an odd religion that bases your eternal state upon what you think.
Hi Monk,
actually, people get punished for what they do.
This is my view of Christian doctrine, at least.
But if they want to enter heaven, this is only possible with a free ticket from Jesus, and this in turn is only available on faith.
So, you're 50% right, I'd say.
 

37818

Active Member
I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.

Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

My question therefore is, if I interpret John 17:21 that "one" in the way that the followers of Jesus can be aligned perfectly with Him, the same way that Jesus Christ is already perfectly aligned with His Father, than does that interpretation nullify me?

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Your illumination on the topic would be appreciated.
It comes down to believing in God's Christ and so keeping one's name in the book of life.
The reason people will perish is their name not being found in the book of life, Revelation 20:15, reference the judgement Revelation 20:11-15. Two of the promises being those who overcome will be sons of God, Revelation 21:7 and not have their name removed from the book of life, Revelation 3:5. And one overcomes by being born of God, 1 John 5:4-5. And that is by believing in God's Christ, 1 John 5:1 and 2 John 1:9.
In any case it is God who does the saving and does the keeping on His terms.
 

37818

Active Member
And BTW, "once saved always saved" is not in Scripture; according to Matthew 24:13, we have to "endure to the end."
The key to enduring is love, 1 Corinthians 13:7, ". . . endureth all things." And 1 John 4:7-8, "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." And 1 John 5:1; 1 John 5:9-13.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved. I don't want to argue with them. I genuinely want to understand their rationale.

Here's why it's a question: I recognize that there are many debates among Christians on interpretations of the Bible, yet my understanding is that a Baptist will still admit that a Presbyterian is saved because he or she has accepted Jesus as their personal Savior. But they will not accept that I, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who accepts Jesus as my personal Savior, is saved. Why?

I have tried to ask this question many times, and except for once with a person I was able to convince that I do not want to argue, it has always quickly turned into why they believe Joseph Smith was an evil deceiver, not answering my question.

The one person who did answer me explained that because I do not believe in the Trinity, that even though I say the name "Jesus Christ", that I do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ. That what I believe is a fictional idea that is not real, and that I have merely attributed the name "Jesus Christ" to that fictional idea. The REAL Jesus Christ that I should be accepting as my Savior is in the Trinity.

My question therefore is, if I interpret John 17:21 that "one" in the way that the followers of Jesus can be aligned perfectly with Him, the same way that Jesus Christ is already perfectly aligned with His Father, than does that interpretation nullify me?

Why do other disagreements over scriptural interpretation not nullify other Christian's beliefs?

And if a person who is initially unfamiliar with Christianity, then learns about it from a Christian missionary, and confesses Jesus, and then dies from an accident, and still harbors mistaken beliefs about God because he has not yet been taught fully by the missionaries, is he saved?

Your illumination on the topic would be appreciated.

I'm a trinitarian and have the same question.
 

roberto

Active Member
Since the Bible does not teach that Jesus is part of a triune godhead, it is my belief that steering clear of that belief is a good thing. Jesus never said he was God...not once. To put another god in place of the Father is a breach of the first Commandment. (Exodus 20:3)

Joh 14:9 Yeshua said to him, “Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How do you say, ‘Show us the Father?’

Zec 14:1 Behold,H2009 the dayH3117 of the LORDH3068 cometh,H935 and thy spoilH7998 shall be dividedH2505 in the midstH7130 of thee.

H3068
יהוה
yehôvâh
yeh-ho-vaw'

Zec 14:4 His feet will stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in two, from east to west, making a very great valley. Half of the mountain will move toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


Isa 44:6 This is what the LORD, the King of Israel,and his Redeemer, the LORD of Hosts, says:“I am the first, and I am the last;and besides me there is no God.

Joh 18:4 Yeshua, who knew everything that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, "Whom do you want?" "Yeshua from Natzeret," they answered. He said to them, "I AM." Also standing with them was Y'hudah, the one who was betraying him.
Joh 18:6 When he said, "I AM," they went back ward from him and fell to the ground.

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alef and the Tav," says the Lord God, "Who is and Who was and Who is to come, the Almighty."
Rev 22:13 I am the Alef and the Tav, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


"Let him who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall" ?
 

roberto

Active Member
Nobody can know who is saved and who not. I find it impertinent of some Christians try to lay down the law about the conditions required. Apart from anything else it seems to me monstrous to believe that those who have been brought up in other religions cannot be saved.
Romans 11, perhaps ?
 
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Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
I want to understand why Christians do not think I'm saved.
Mostly this is fallout from the 19th century when (USA) Christians began to define Christianity from reading the Bible in English. In those days the Mormons left the other Christians to live in isolation. Of them many stories were told, but the Mormons declared the other churches to be following a confused version of the gospel. Since that time the LDS (no longer Mormons) have remained a scary story that Christians tell to their children.

The theological side is more complicated.
 

roberto

Active Member
In my studies, I believe that person is still saved. It is not what you know but who you know--Jesus!

In the game of soccer, when is a/the goal scored? Only when the ball is in the net ?

Similar to "the Biblical game"......, one will only be able to say I am saved when you stand in the Kingdom.

And knowing Obama or Trump does not mean that they know me/you.
 
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