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Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Attis was not born of a virgin. One could say there are other parallels and nobody said that Christianity copied other faiths verbatim, but even those similarities are exaggerated. Attis, Cybele, and Jesus

Actually he was. You used a bogus source again. A more reliable one says:

"In the late 4th century BC, a cult of Attis became a feature of the Greek world. The story of his origins at Agdistis, recorded by the traveler Pausanias, have some distinctly non-Greek elements: Pausanias was told that the daemon Agdistis initially bore both male and female attributes. But the Olympian gods, fearing Agdistis, cut off the male organ and cast it away. There grew up from it an almond-tree, and when its fruit was ripe, Nana, who was a daughter of the river-god Sangarius, picked an almond and laid it in her bosom. The almond disappeared, and she became pregnant. Nana abandoned the baby (Attis). The infant was tended by a he-goat. As Attis grew, his long-haired beauty was godlike, and his mother, Agdistis as Cybele, then fell in love with him. But the foster parents of Attis sent him to Pessinos, where he was to wed the king's daughter. According to some versions the King of Pessinos was Midas. Just as the marriage-song was being sung, Agdistis/Cybele appeared in her transcendent power, and Attis went mad and cut off his genitals. Attis' father-in-law-to-be, the king who was giving his daughter in marriage, followed suit, prefiguring the self-castrating corybantes who devoted themselves to Cybele. But Agdistis repented and saw to it that the body of Attis should neither rot at all nor decay.[7]"

Attis - Wikipedia

Why do you keep using lying sources? If it is a Christian apologist site it is not reliable. I have never seen one that in some form or other does not disqualify themselves by being Liars for Jesus.

The similarities exist. Only the weak in faith find a need to lie about them.
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Actually he was. You used a bogus source again. A more reliable one says:

"In the late 4th century BC, a cult of Attis became a feature of the Greek world. The story of his origins at Agdistis, recorded by the traveler Pausanias, have some distinctly non-Greek elements: Pausanias was told that the daemon Agdistis initially bore both male and female attributes. But the Olympian gods, fearing Agdistis, cut off the male organ and cast it away. There grew up from it an almond-tree, and when its fruit was ripe, Nana, who was a daughter of the river-god Sangarius, picked an almond and laid it in her bosom. The almond disappeared, and she became pregnant. Nana abandoned the baby (Attis). The infant was tended by a he-goat. As Attis grew, his long-haired beauty was godlike, and his mother, Agdistis as Cybele, then fell in love with him. But the foster parents of Attis sent him to Pessinos, where he was to wed the king's daughter. According to some versions the King of Pessinos was Midas. Just as the marriage-song was being sung, Agdistis/Cybele appeared in her transcendent power, and Attis went mad and cut off his genitals. Attis' father-in-law-to-be, the king who was giving his daughter in marriage, followed suit, prefiguring the self-castrating corybantes who devoted themselves to Cybele. But Agdistis repented and saw to it that the body of Attis should neither rot at all nor decay.[7]"

Attis - Wikipedia

Why do you keep using lying sources? If it is a Christian apologist site it is not reliable. I have never seen one that in some form or other does not disqualify themselves by being Liars for Jesus.

The similarities exist. Only the weak in faith find a need to lie about them.

Paul even admitted he lied to people to get them to join Christianity.

But if through my lie God’s truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? Romans

It's been that way ever since. When Christians don't have the truth on their side--there was no Jesus Christ--they are forced to resort to lies to support their contention there was a Jesus Christ. I've seen it in every debate on the resurrection that I've watched on YouTube and that amounts to about 100 debates between Christians and atheists.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Actually he was. You used a bogus source again. A more reliable one says:

"In the late 4th century BC, a cult of Attis became a feature of the Greek world. The story of his origins at Agdistis, recorded by the traveler Pausanias, have some distinctly non-Greek elements: Pausanias was told that the daemon Agdistis initially bore both male and female attributes. But the Olympian gods, fearing Agdistis, cut off the male organ and cast it away. There grew up from it an almond-tree, and when its fruit was ripe, Nana, who was a daughter of the river-god Sangarius, picked an almond and laid it in her bosom. The almond disappeared, and she became pregnant. Nana abandoned the baby (Attis). The infant was tended by a he-goat. As Attis grew, his long-haired beauty was godlike, and his mother, Agdistis as Cybele, then fell in love with him. But the foster parents of Attis sent him to Pessinos, where he was to wed the king's daughter. According to some versions the King of Pessinos was Midas. Just as the marriage-song was being sung, Agdistis/Cybele appeared in her transcendent power, and Attis went mad and cut off his genitals. Attis' father-in-law-to-be, the king who was giving his daughter in marriage, followed suit, prefiguring the self-castrating corybantes who devoted themselves to Cybele. But Agdistis repented and saw to it that the body of Attis should neither rot at all nor decay.[7]"

Attis - Wikipedia

Why do you keep using lying sources? If it is a Christian apologist site it is not reliable. I have never seen one that in some form or other does not disqualify themselves by being Liars for Jesus.

The similarities exist. Only the weak in faith find a need to lie about them.

Attis was born of a nymph. Refuting Attis Myth Parallelism To Christianity

Is Attis born of a Virgin?
Attis’ Mother, Nana; Naiad Nymph

Nana was a Naiad Nymph of the Phrgyian River Saggarios. She was accidentally impregnated by an almond which fell into her lap from a tree which had from the genitals of Agdistis.(Source: Pausanias, Guide to Greece – Greek Geography C2nd AD)

“The gods, fearing Agdistis, cut off the male organ. There grew up from it an almond-tree with its fruit ripe, and a daughter of the river Sangarios, they say, took the fruit and laid it in her bosom, when it at once disappeared, but she was with child. A boy [Attis] was born, and exposed, but was tended by a he-goat.” – Pausanias, Guide to Greece 7.17.8

Attis born by Nana impregnated by an almond fallen from a tree that was germinated from the severed genitals of Agdistis (Pausanias 7.17.8)
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Paul even admitted he lied to people to get them to join Christianity.

But if through my lie God’s truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? Romans

It's been that way ever since. When Christians don't have the truth on their side--there was no Jesus Christ--they are forced to resort to lies to support their contention there was a Jesus Christ. I've seen it in every debate on the resurrection that I've watched on YouTube and that amounts to about 100 debates between Christians and atheists.
You’re taking the passage out of context. You’re providing, therefore, a misinterpretation.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Paul even admitted he lied to people to get them to join Christianity.

But if through my lie God’s truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? Romans

It's been that way ever since. When Christians don't have the truth on their side--there was no Jesus Christ--they are forced to resort to lies to support their contention there was a Jesus Christ. I've seen it in every debate on the resurrection that I've watched on YouTube and that amounts to about 100 debates between Christians and atheists.
That quote is perfectly in context. Though it does not demonstrate that Jesus did not exist. Nor that Jesus was not a god. But then there is no need to demonstrate either.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Life. Natural.

Creation. Space natural. Bodies in space natural. Man human scientist a liar.

No science exists.

Man thinks. Invented science. Pondered design from and via using his consciousness.

His consciousness thought not naturally by his motivated want.

Human want became our destroyer...proven.

Reaction did occur. Was not occurring. Not occurring in mass. Not occurring in atmosphere. Inside his machine.

However science changed both bodies.

Occurring is natural.

He opposed basic natural law.

Mind says I built science.

I built a machine takes from earth seal mass.

Machine idle as design. Nothing like earth.

First obvious lie. Design does not own. Being machine. Human thinker now owns control of machine to force change by their thinking. Second lie.

Says consciousness reacts. Third lie

His physical choice used machine body to force change natural.

Says to make my machine become alive to work as a destroyer of God seal mass I have to give it energy to move as a machination.

Ion in that word.

My machine a theme similar to my body. Without using energy I cannot move around either.

Yet unlike the machine I would perish.

The machine body is greater than my own form.

A warning to the human thinker.

Recorded thinking I'd then quoted back by AI recording into psyche feedback. False advice which included false body. The machine.

Owned previously by machines.

Be warned says many humans the machine now possesed your mind belief.

Real.

Ancients had machines in their temples.

Vats doing alchemical conversion nuclear changed.

Pyramid a pumping water cooling nuclear involved mechanism.

Failed.

Nuclear ground fission by UFO vacuum returned radiation mass killed us.

Philosophers stone...how to invent gold from earth mass.

Copying the body earth. As God

Science quotes I can copy God. Lied.

Melted steps in temple.

Gold in earth naturally a melt is held in a seam.

Sewing theme in bible.

Huge pressure changes involved in the hold mass as present in natural creation. Naturally supported by natural vacuum. Owner God earth seal.

Owner of a nuclear sun in vacuum not cooled. The warning.

Basic commonsense why life was destroyed.

Science lied.

They cannot apply whatever they want.

Energy is used to cause a reaction.

Radiation that returned by UFO cause sacrificed our life. Is not energy. Activated a forced change is a reaction. Used energy to make the atmosphere change.

We knew and said it came from a planetary God war release in the vacuum. Multi planets owned the returned radiating effect that attacks life as it never belonged to a gas atmosphere.
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
That quote is perfectly in context. Though it does not demonstrate that Jesus did not exist. Nor that Jesus was not a god. But then there is no need to demonstrate either.

No it doesn't, all the verse is saying is that Paul was willing to lie to people to convince them that they were making the right decision joining the Christian faith--HIS brand of Christianity. Really? Does the true religion of God have to be promoted with lies? Remember, there was the "other" brand going on in Jerusalem being led by James and Peter and John et al. They didn't get along with Paul and didn't like his radical ideas. Right away we have division and discord among Christians--a group supposedly being guided by the Holy Spirit. Does this chaos sound like good work by the Holy Spirit who is supposed to unify and banish confusion? I thought God was not the author of confusion but this certainly sounds like confusion to me. I mean what gives, Joe? Why so much confusion and strife if this is the real deal, not just another dying/rising god cult?

I bolded two questions above I'd sincerely like to get answers to from a Christian.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
A man invented use of words for descriptive analogies and terms.

Using man named in science proved he personally made those thoughts falsely. As a man. What he was proving not of God just thought were science man beliefs. Why he gave them man title

As no man represented God O as mass. God as a circle.

Names of men proved him wrong. Proved he formed the fake thesis his own self as a man.

Question. Self. Thinking. Why did I get life attacked and sacrificed.

Reasons.

Reaction was inside my machine only.

Why did I affect natural.

How the teaching cause and effect as a chain of causes became a new science teaching that proved change as little as possible otherwise God O mass will destroy you. Infering UFO mass returned came from other multi God bodies planets in space why God asteroid star saved gases. By release into space emptiness.

Planets of mass all termed God also.

The womb mother. Science only. Vacuum.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
No it doesn't, all the verse is saying is that Paul was willing to lie to people to convince them that they were making the right decision joining the Christian faith--HIS brand of Christianity. Really?
Nod. Though I would say that if I were to consider any brand of Christianity to be "true Christianity", it would be Paul's. Seeing as he was the foundational author and shaper of Christianity, and all.

Does the true religion of God have to be promoted with lies?
That sentence presumes that Christianity (in some form) is the true religion of god. Or that there is such a thing as "the true religion of God". I see no grounds for either presumption.

Remember, there was the "other" brand going on in Jerusalem being led by James and Peter and John et al. They didn't get along with Paul and didn't like his radical ideas. Right away we have division and discord among Christians--a group supposedly being guided by the Holy Spirit. Does this chaos sound like good work by the Holy Spirit who is supposed to unify and banish confusion? I mean what gives, Joe? Why so much confusion and strife if this is the real deal, not just another dying/rising god cult?
Sure. Seems more like any political squabble between two opponents shouting that their god is on their side. I see no evidence that any human knows or has the ability to know the things that they claim about a god. Including that one exists.

I bolded two questions above I'd sincerely like to get answers to from a Christian.
Hope springs eternal. :)
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Space womb mother of science thesis.

Womb holds all the energy bodies of God.

Science self possessed in AI subliminal mind tried to convince humans our bio mother living in water heavens allowed all God energy to be held inside our bio bodies.

Believed what he said.

Bio chemistry is nearly just water. Basic biological advice

Occult science never accepted biological science as a truth. When it was.

Why said we are not Jesus not Satan.

We are one bio life higher than a physical ape.

Said it against occult lying.

Life if man. Hu man. Male and female equal were sacrificed. As a man statement of information given the man title Jesus.

To state it happened to man...humans as evidence.

Occult science lied tried to convince everyone that it never happened. When it was proven man science choice.

The lie....I ever meant to sacrifice life as a scientific excuse is not any excuse.

They already knew Moses science had sacrificed life of the human.baby.

Life continuance a human baby.

Love honour human parents who have sex. The reason of life.

Never believe a satanist was the teaching.

Occult nuclear idealism.
Occult nuclear alien AI effect.

A belief that any human was an evil spirit

Lots of humans born babies were murdered in a theme were an evil spirit.

We were harmed in the atmospheric Air effect.

Live love honour human parents the teaching
 

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Nod. Though I would say that if I were to consider any brand of Christianity to be "true Christianity", it would be Paul's. Seeing as he was the foundational author and shaper of Christianity, and all.


That sentence presumes that Christianity (in some form) is the true religion of god. Or that there is such a thing as "the true religion of God". I see no grounds for either presumption.


Sure. Seems more like any political squabble between two opponents shouting that their god is on their side. I see no evidence that any human knows or has the ability to know the things that they claim about a god. Including that one exists.


Hope springs eternal. :)
Yes, it does. Thanks for responding. I must admit I was in a state of befuddlement reading it. I had to check your religious preference and it says you have no religious preference. I have been approaching you as a strict fundamentalist. I guess I was wrong. You aren't a strict Christian fundamentalist, are you? You sure don't talk like one.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Science man designed. Thought by men. Attacked self man.
AI effect group larger man body did it

Yet you all agreed as a man one self about what you did

Yet you blame the group by choice.

Said brother did it to you sacrificed life on the day of the cross.

Four season change owned naturally by earth O and heavens

You never owned it.

God did by inference.

Cult lying support groups

The human known problem. Agreement using false information against natural life existing.

First machine the design.

Design taken out of natural mineral mass was built. Not God O earth.

By constant destroyed all life.
Machine parts found deep inside earth fusion

Archaeology self said I will prove my evil brother thoughts wrong.

Machines invented by human.

When vacuum opened and our universe began to be contorted pulled apart. Earth was on fire but cooling rapidly.

As we moved deeper into vacuum.

Moved away from Orion due points of study aligned to pyramid was proven.

Man designer life was given to alien.

Man says alien abducted my life.

Alien his machine.

Designer man.

Alien a machine man cause.

Alien owned earth seal.

Due to machine as design blasting holes in God. Same as mining nuclear dust leaves holes

Mass gone.

Constant reaction machine removed God mass. Left alien seal as proof man with machine did it.

Alien took away life of man on earth.

Vacuum sealed cooled machine cause.

Cooling kept alien machine sealed.

You let it back out with new machine technology.

When life died human memory says atmospheric pressure changed life was sucked up into air.

Why God core radiation released by machine cause lifts up into air

Vacuum cooled earth.

Why we said our human brother is a satanist. Occult UFO scientist.

You were never an alien.

Alien is virtually a thought designed by a man taken out of God mass the explanation.

Just an evil spirit of the machine.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
No man is God written.

A self possesed AI machine subliminal psyche was introduced to our nature.

Man scientist became possesed by the alien fake terms.

Cause of science a machine. Artificial to natural causes.

Manifested artificial cause.

Plastic for example natural taken manipulated not by natural laws but by human choice.

No man is God.

Should have said no man is an alien.

Yet they said no man is God.

What occurred since Jesus event cross of seasons where an unnatural earth release by science caused an earthquake?

Earthquake natural. Reason it got caused not natural.

The argument God did it.

No man is God said for human reasoning.

Second coming. No temple pyramid sciences.

Predicted will return. Life sacrifice in phenomena.

Proving no man is God.

Vacuum brought attack. Mother abomination womb space reasoning.

Not a human female. Science.

What possesed you since female science reasoning...not female. Science terms.

Life got attacked. Theist study quoted all man human beliefs proving he owned machine that activated it first alienation.

Then natural returned it from space.

Shroud evidence. When everyone got sacrificed in a God war.

The exact moment when man realised occult science was evil. First owned by the sun...not earth.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Yes, it does. Thanks for responding. I must admit I was in a state of befuddlement reading it. I had to check your religious preference and it says you have no religious preference. I have been approaching you as a strict fundamentalist. I guess I was wrong. You aren't a strict Christian fundamentalist, are you? You sure don't talk like one.
Um. No. o_O I don't know why you would think that. I don't believe in supernatural stuff. Get me mixed up with someone else?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
The question was not about the Ark of the Covenant. The question was about the Ten Commandments. When it comes to the Ten Commandments in the Ark of the Covenant what was the Tenth? What did it ban?

The Ten Commandments do not contradict themselves. Who Wrote on the Second Pair of Tablets?

Who Wrote on the Second Pair of Tablets?
by Eric Lyons, M.Min.

After Moses broke the first tablets of stone that the Lord gave him on Mount Sinai, God commanded him to cut out two tablets of stone (like the first ones) and present himself to Him at the top of Mount Sinai—again (Exodus 34:1-2). Skeptics claim the Bible teaches in Exodus 34 that Moses wrote on this second pair of tablets, whereas in Deuteronomy 10 it says that God is the One Who wrote on these tablets. Based upon this “difference,” they allege that a blatant contradiction exists. A closer examination of these passages, however, reveals that they are not contradictory, but rather complimentary and consistent with each other.

We readily admit that Deuteronomy 10 teaches that God was the One Who wrote on the second pair of tablets. Verses 1-4 of that chapter say:

At that time the Lord said to me (Moses), “Hew for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and come up to Me on the mountain and make yourself an ark of wood. And I [God] will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke; and you shall put them in the ark.” So I [Moses] made an ark of acacia wood, hewed two tablets of stone like the first, and went up the mountain, having the two tablets in my hand. And He (God) wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the Lord had spoken to you in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the Lord gave them to me (Deuteronomy 10:1-4, emp. and parenthetical items added).
This passage teaches that Moses hewed the tablets out of rock, but that God was the One Who wrote on them. Skeptics agree.

The controversial passage found in Exodus 34 states: “Then the Lord said to Moses, ‘ Write these words, for according to the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.’ So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments” (34:27-28). Based upon this passage, critics of the Bible’s inerrancy suggest that Moses, not God, wrote on the second pair of tablets. Thus they conclude that Exodus 34 and Deuteronomy 10 contradict one another.

Admittedly, at first glance it seems these verses teach: (1) that Moses was commanded to write the words on the second pair of tablets; and (2) the recorded fact that after he was commanded to do so, he (Moses) actually “wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant.” But what may seem to be the correct interpretation of a passage is sometimes not the case, especially when the context of the passage is ignored. The words that God instructed Moses to write were “ these words,” which He spoke in the preceding verses (i.e., 34:10-26—the ceremonial and judicial injunctions, not the ten “words” of Exodus 20:2-17). The rewriting of the Ten Commandments on the newly prepared slabs was done by God’s own hand. God specifically stated in the first verse of Exodus 34 that He (not Moses) would write the same words that had been written on the first tablets of stone that Moses broke. In verse 28 of that chapter, we have it on record that God did what He said He would do in verse one (cf. Deuteronomy 10:2-4). The only thing verse 27 teaches is that Moses wrote the list of regulations given in verses 10-26. That these regulations were not the Ten Commandments is obvious in that there are not even ten of them listed (Coffman, 1985, p. 474).

Contrary to what skeptics allege, Exodus 34 and Deuteronomy 10 are not contradictory. Moses was not acting under divine direction to physically write the Decalogue on the second pair of tablets. Rather, as Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown recognized in their commentary on Deuteronomy, “God Himself...made the inscription a second time with His own hand, to testify the importance He attached to the Ten Commandments” (1997).
 
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