How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Rival]

This reasoning is bizarre, to me. It doesn't take inordinate time to explain "Hey the Moshiach will rule Israel, but the government will be completely different from what we have now." And since when do Jews not have time for in-depth explanations of their beliefs? LOL.

The prophets are speaking their own language, to their own time and their own culture. It's not up to them to expound upon every little detail incessantly. It's good enough to say, 'Hey, this guy? Yeah, he's gonna be a King.' And folks instantly know what this entails. The prophet is there to put his message across, not tell people the lottery numbers for 1982. Much the same way that the Torah doesn't tell us exactly how G-d created the world it just tells us that He did.

Again, this strikes me as just a way of reasoning backwards. The prophets of old thought the Moshiach would be a king, and knew what the word "king" meant, which is why they used it. They didn't know there would be this weird democratic form of government in Israel millenia hence. So now believers are stuck trying to fit today's situation into yesterday's prophecy, and the results are inaccurate.

They used it because that is the word they had that best explained the concept they were expounding to the audience they were speaking to at the time.

That I didn't know about. Does the Tanakh say that, or is it from the Talmud?

Not sure.

 

[Left Coast]

Because Jesus being God means there was no need for being born the usual way.

Of course. He could have spontaneously appeared from nothing, if he wanted. Nothing requires him to be born of a virgin. I don't know what any of that has to do with things being done "decently and in order." If anything, being born in an unusual way is out of order, that's the whole point of it.

 

[Skywalker]

The prophets are speaking their own language, to their own time and their own culture. It's not up to them to expound upon every little detail incessantly. It's good enough to say, 'Hey, this guy? Yeah, he's gonna be a King.' And folks instantly know what this entails. The prophet is there to put his message across, not tell people the lottery numbers for 1982. Much the same way that the Torah doesn't tell us exactly how G-d created the world it just tells us that He did.


They used it because that is the word they had that best explained the concept they were expounding to the audience they were speaking to at the time.


Not sure.

That's why some of the details of the Tanakh, like Zechariah 12:10, don't explicitly state that God is the Messiah and will have a second coming.

 

[rosends]

What are the other explanations for Jesus resurrecting? Did He Or Didn't He? Jewish Views of the Resurrection of Jesus

He wasn't resurrected. I'm not even convinced that he actually lived. Next question. I am SO passing this test!

 

[Rival]

Of course. He could have spontaneously appeared from nothing, if he wanted. Nothing requires him to be born of a virgin. I don't know what any of that has to do with things being done "decently and in order." If anything, being born in an unusual way is out of order, that's the whole point of it.

I also find it interesting that the earliest gospel doesn't have this narrative.

 

[Skywalker]

Of course. He could have spontaneously appeared from nothing, if he wanted. Nothing requires him to be born of a virgin. I don't know what any of that has to do with things being done "decently and in order." If anything, being born in an unusual way is out of order, that's the whole point of it.

Jesus didn't just come to die for our sins and reconcile us back to God, but also to live among people and teach us how to live. Jesus spontaneously appearing from nothing would contradict that. Jesus lived as one of us.

Jesus being born of a virgin wasn't unusual because Joseph raised him as his own son. Being born the usual way wouldn't be appropriate for God.

 

[Left Coast]

The prophets are speaking their own language, to their own time and their own culture. It's not up to them to expound upon every little detail incessantly. It's good enough to say, 'Hey, this guy? Yeah, he's gonna be a King.' And folks instantly know what this entails. The prophet is there to put his message across, not tell people the lottery numbers for 1982. Much the same way that the Torah doesn't tell us exactly how G-d created the world it just tells us that He did.

Again, this completely contradicts the well-known Jewish tradition of expounding ad nauseum in intricate detail what the Torah/Tanakh means. It seems like a cop out, honestly. That you can non-literally interpret a text with 20/20 hindsight is no surprise. Again, this is what Christians do.

 

[Rival]

Jesus being born of a virgin wasn't unusual because Joseph raised him as his own son. Being born the usual way wouldn't be appropriate for God.

Being a man walking on earth as a whole isn't appropriate for G-d.

Also, if I discovered I'm pregnant trust me, that would be a bit more than unusual. I've never even kissed a boy let alone slept with one. I'd be straight to the hospital like, Um excuse me....

 

[Skywalker]

He wasn't resurrected. I'm not even convinced that he actually lived. Next question. I am SO passing this test!

I believe that many teachings about Jesus are false but that doesn't mean that he didn't live.

 

[Rival]

Again, this completely contradicts the well-known Jewish tradition of expounding ad nauseum in intricate detail what the Torah/Tanakh means. It seems like a cop out, honestly. That you can non-literally interpret a text with 20/20 hindsight is no surprise. Again, this is what Christians do.

Yes, the Rabbis expound on the text, explaining it. I'm not arguing with you against that. Isn't that exactly what's being done here, though, extrapolating the meaning from the text?

 

[rosends]

Jesus being born of a virgin wasn't unusual

sure...happens all the time

because Joseph raised him as his own son.

and this perfectly explainis the whole virgin birth thing.

Being born the usual way wouldn't be appropriate for God.

Yeah! God has to be born differently. Like a Caesarean, or from an egg.

 

[rosends]

I believe that many teachings about Jesus are false but that doesn't mean that he didn't live.

I believe that many things attributed to Jesus are interesting but that doesn't mean that he actually existed.

 

[Left Coast]

Jesus didn't just come to die for our sins and reconcile us back to God, but also to live among people and teach us how to live. Jesus spontaneously appearing from nothing would contradict that. Jesus lived as one of us.

Jesus being born of a virgin wasn't unusual because Joseph raised him as his own son. Being born the usual way wouldn't be appropriate for God.

You're trying to have it both ways. Was the virgin birth usual or unusual?

Jesus appearing spontaneously wouldn't prevent him from interacting with people or living among people.

 

[Skywalker]

Being a man walking on earth as a whole isn't appropriate for G-d.

Also, if I discovered I'm pregnant trust me, that would be a bit more than unusual. I've never even kissed a boy let alone slept with one. I'd be straight to the hospital like, Um excuse me....

Why wouldn't it be appropriate for God? God appeared to Abraham as a man in Genesis 18:1-2.

The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.” Abraham showed immediate hospitality to the three men, inviting them to rest under a tree and preparing a big meal for them

 

[Rival]

Jesus appearing spontaneously

Can you imagine the Gospel writers trying to narrate this?

 

[Left Coast]

I also find it interesting that the earliest gospel doesn't have this narrative.

And that the two accounts who include it completely contradict.

 

[dybmh]

every generation contains a potential Messiah,

Does the Tanakh say that, or is it from the Talmud?

Looks like it has a source in Talmud, but was developed in a commentary on the book of Ruth.

משתמש:איתן נחמן/Moshiach in every generation – חב"דפדיה

 

[Skywalker]

sure...happens all the time

and this perfectly explainis the whole virgin birth thing.

Yeah! God has to be born differently. Like a Caesarean, or from an egg.

Since God created the universe, doing a miracle isn't unusual for God.

Jesus was raised in a step-family so it wouldn't look unusual.

 

[Left Coast]

Yes, the Rabbis expound on the text, explaining it. I'm not arguing with you against that. Isn't that exactly what's being done here, though, extrapolating the meaning from the text?

Sure, and Christians would say they're also "expounding on the text," of course. How believable any of these expositions are is debatable, of course.

 

[Skywalker]

I believe that many things attributed to Jesus are interesting but that doesn't mean that he actually existed.

How could the person who had such an impact on 2000 years of history have never existed? The sayings of Jesus have the ring of truth to most people. The birth of Jesus is why history is BC and AD.