Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, there will be no second coming of the same man Jesus unless:
1) Jesus lied, or
2) The NT is in error
(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)
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Christianity vs Baha'i
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
1) Jesus lied, or
2) The NT is in error
(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)
The context of Jesus saying it is finished is about his work on the cross being finished. It isn't a reference to whether or not his work on the earth was finished.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
I don't know about the second part of this verse, but I think that the first part of this verse means that the kingdom of Jesus is in heaven, not on Earth.
Luke 1:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting. He exalted those Jews who recognized Him. They were men and women of humble birth, but contact with Him made them great and gave them everlasting dignity. The animals who were to live with one another signified the different sects and races, who, once having been at war, were now to dwell in love and charity, drinking together the water of life from Christ the Eternal Spring.” Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 56
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
How can Jesus have any authority in the world if He is no more in the world?
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Jesus meant that he didn't have earthly authority to resist arrest. It wasn't a war. Jesus submitted to authority. The situation with Pontius Pilate doesn't mean that Jesus wouldn't have authority on earth in the future.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I really don't know... I'd have to read more of the Bible to figure that out.
He will have authority when He comes back. Jesus wasn't saying in that verse that He would never return.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the same man Jesus will be returning.... That it would be Jesus returning was just assumed by Christians because they misinterpreted the verses.
Jesus was referring to Himself as the temple.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nor does it mean He will. Jesus never said he was going to return to the world, He said He wasn't going to return.
Jewish people think that Jesus won't come back because they believed that there would be both a suffering servant and a conquering Messiah. There is only one Messiah. What verses do you think I didn't interpret properly?
But it gives doubt to the viewpoint that Jesus won't return, because of what he told Pilate. Jesus didn't tell Pilate that He wasn't going to return. Jesus talking to Pilate has nothing to do with whether Jesus would return to the world or not.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You cannot prove that, you just assume that, and even if He was, that does not mean He was referring to His body.
The physical body is not who Jesus was, it was just a temporary vehicle by which His soul could express itself while He was living on Earth. Jesus minimized the importance of the flesh and said that it is the spirit that quickens, but Christians go against what Jesus said and glorify His flesh. I find that rather ironic. Being born again has nothing to do with rising from the grave, it is related to spiritual rebirth.
John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Any verses that you believe that mean that Jesus was the Messiah that would come in the End Times.
Jesus was 'a Messiah' but not that Messiah.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why would tell Pilate? Jesus said in many other verses that He was not going to return.
What's the difference between what body Jesus returns in? I don't just think that the body of Jesus was a vehicle, I believe in the hypostatic union.
Saying that there are two Messiahs sounds Jewish.
There would be no need for Jesus to tell Pilate. It wasn't relevant to their discussion. Those verses where it sounded like Jesus said that He wasn't going to return is not a reference to the second coming of Jesus.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
And what about the Baha'i list of "prophecies" fulfilled?