Why MAGA Is a Bad Thing

[joe1776]

Group pride has, throughout history, been thought of as a virtue. That's a mistake. Group pride is actually disguised arrogance because we know intuitively that the man who is especially proud of being Irish and Catholic would be just as proud if, by some twist of fate, he had been raised to think of himself as a German and Lutheran. It isn't that his groups are wonderful. It's that HE is wonderful and they are HIS groups.

The ever-present other side of the Group Pride coin is Group Prejudice: Our nation is superior to theirs! Our religion is superior to theirs! Our tribe is superior to theirs! Arrogant group pride has been the root cause of most wars throughout history.

Another ever-present facet of group pride is arrogant entitlement. When we humans feel superior to others, the moral rules which govern the behavior of ordinary people don't seem to apply to us.

In my opinion, all humans are burdened with an arrogance problem to some extent. I think the MAGA people are burdened just a tad more.

 

[Revoltingest]

Does this apply to black pride & gay pride?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why do you keep inflating national pride with supremacist attitudes? Make America Great Again is just a populist slogan. All these threads trying to psychoanalyze Trump supporters are just condescending, insulting and bizarre. We're just regular people.

 

[joe1776]

Does this apply to black pride & gay pride?

That would depend on the individual. But generally, they are probably exceptions since their intent is to overcome the prejudice of society.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why do you keep inflating conflating national pride with supremacist attitudes? Make America Great Again is just a populist slogan. All these threads trying to psychoanalyze Trump supporters are just condescending, insulting and bizarre. We're just regular people.

Apparently you're more evil than you thought.
(I have that problem too.)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Apparently you're more evil than you thought.
(I have that problem too.)

So nice of our fellow posters to reveal this to us.

 

[joe1776]

Why do you keep inflating national pride with supremacist attitudes? Make America Great Again is just a populist slogan. All these threads trying to psychoanalyze Trump supporters are just condescending, insulting and bizarre. We're just regular people.

I explained the WHY in the OP.

As I wrote, regular people are arrogant to some extent in my opinion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I explained the WHY in the OP.

As I wrote, regular people are arrogant to some extent in my opinion.

I know. I just reject your view of it. I'm a nationalist so of course I'll disagree with you.

 

[joe1776]

I know. I just reject your view of it. I'm a nationalist so of course I'll disagree with you.

In Europe, nationalism is now being regarded as a major problem. Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, has spoken out strongly against it.

https://nypost.com/2019/05/28/german-chancellor-angela-merkel-warns-about-rise-of-nationalism-in-europe/

 

[SomeRandom]

MAGA has always been inextricably linked with some kind of supremacist views from my (admittedly shoddy) exposure to it. Through social media and international news.
At first that line of thinking presented itself as merely ironic memes, so I brushed it off as just a bunch of edgy teens being trolls. But somewhere along the way the irony didn’t seem very present anymore

I’ve no doubt that there are just regular folks that are a part of this movement.
I’m just saying, maybe get a better PR department.

 

[74x12]

Group pride has, throughout history, been thought of as a virtue. That's a mistake. Group pride is actually disguised arrogance because we know intuitively that the man who is especially proud of being Irish and Catholic would be just as proud if, by some twist of fate, he had been raised to think of himself as a German and Lutheran. It isn't that his groups are wonderful. It's that HE is wonderful and they are HIS groups.

The ever-present other side of the Group Pride coin is Group Prejudice: Our nation is superior to theirs! Our religion is superior to theirs! Our tribe is superior to theirs! Arrogant group pride has been the root cause of most wars throughout history.

Another ever-present facet of group pride is arrogant entitlement. When we humans feel superior to others, the moral rules which govern the behavior of ordinary people don't seem to apply to us.

In my opinion, all humans are burdened with an arrogance problem to some extent. I think the MAGA people are burdened just a tad more.

The thing is that everyone has this same thing going on in their own countries. Japan, Korea or any country is proud of themselves. You won't get away from it; so to punish people for pride in their own country is not fair unless equally punishing all countries.

As for thinking your own country is the best; in my opinion it's normal and not a big deal. Although I don't really hold that opinion myself. But it's not wrong to think the USA is a better country than North Korea. Otherwise we should adopt the ways of NK; if we truly believe that NK is a better country than our own. So I think average people are just being honest with themselves when they say their own country is the best whether it's America, South Korea, UK whatever ... they really believe it is the best and they have their reasons. And that's fine. For them it really is the best country.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In Europe, nationalism is now being regarded as a major problem. Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor has spoken out strongly against it.

https://nypost.com/2019/05/28/german-chancellor-angela-merkel-warns-about-rise-of-nationalism-in-europe/

Merkel is the de facto ruler of the EU and the most powerful European leader, so of course she will opose nationalist movements. It weakens her power and standing since she's pushing so hard for open borders. So what she has to say about it means nothing to me. I cheer my fellow nationalists in Europe on.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Ehhh... I feel pride should be reserved for things one earns themselves.

Nothing wrong with honoring one's roots, groups they belong to, or ideas they can get behind; as long as they don't take it too far. We live in a world of contrasting ideas and identities; we have to learn to live with one another, because the alternative is too horrible to fathom...

 

[SomeRandom]

Merkel is the de facto ruler of the EU and the most powerful European leader, so of course she will opose nationalist movements. It weakens her power and standing since she's pushing so hard for open borders. So what she has to say about it means nothing to me. I cheer my fellow nationalists in Europe on.

To be fair, I suspect nationalism rings differently in Europe, particularly in Germany than other parts of the world.
I mean in America national pride seems almost intrinsic to your culture.
Germans have probably been eyeing that with suspicion since like the 40s. For “historic reasons.” I don’t think that’s fair on them. But idk
My German uncle has several times jokingly lamented to me that politicians in Germany have tried their best to be as milquetoast as possible, so as to not repeat a certain moustachioed leader.

 

[Audie]

Group pride has, throughout history, been thought of as a virtue. That's a mistake. Group pride is actually disguised arrogance because we know intuitively that the man who is especially proud of being Irish and Catholic would be just as proud if, by some twist of fate, he had been raised to think of himself as a German and Lutheran. It isn't that his groups are wonderful. It's that HE is wonderful and they are HIS groups.

The ever-present other side of the Group Pride coin is Group Prejudice: Our nation is superior to theirs! Our religion is superior to theirs! Our tribe is superior to theirs! Arrogant group pride has been the root cause of most wars throughout history.

Another ever-present facet of group pride is arrogant entitlement. When we humans feel superior to others, the moral rules which govern the behavior of ordinary people don't seem to apply to us.

In my opinion, all humans are burdened with an arrogance problem to some extent. I think the MAGA people are burdened just a tad more.

What a sick sad twisted view.

 

[Audie]

MAGA has always been inextricably linked with some kind of supremacist views from my (admittedly shoddy) exposure to it. Through social media and international news.
At first that line of thinking presented itself as merely ironic memes, so I brushed it off as just a bunch of edgy teens being trolls. But somewhere along the way the irony didn’t seem very present anymore

I’ve no doubt that there are just regular folks that are a part of this movement.
I’m just saying, maybe get a better PR department.

Blatantly supremist views, though, are woke
If it's black.

Could you identify a supremist statement from trump?

Such racist fever as I see in the USA is not from
Trump or anything maga.

 

[joe1776]

The thing is that everyone has this same thing going on in their own countries. Japan, Korea or any country is proud of themselves. You won't get away from it; so to punish people for pride in their own country is not fair unless equally punishing all countries.

Japan's nationalism (excessive pride) led them to be oppressors in WW2. German's nationalism (excessive pride) cause the war in Europe.

But it's not wrong to think the USA is a better country than North Korea. Otherwise we should adopt the ways of NK; if we truly believe that NK is a better country than our own.

You're missing the point. We not talking about superior policies. We're talking about being superior in human rights.

So I think average people are just being honest with themselves when they say their own country is the best whether it's America, South Korea, UK whatever ... they really believe it is the best and they have their reasons. And that's fine. For them it really is the best country.

Was it OK for the Nazis to think that Germans were a Master Race and therefore entitled to take more living space (Lebensraum) by force from their neighbors to the East?

 

[joe1776]

...I’ve no doubt that there are just regular folks that are a part of this movement.
I’m just saying, maybe get a better PR department.

Regular folks have been doing tribalism and nationalism forever. Regular folks have also been fighting wars forever.

 

[SomeRandom]

Blatantly supremist views, though, are woke
If it's black.

Could you identify a supremist statement from trump?

Such racist fever as I see in the USA is not from
Trump or anything maga.

I don’t know if that’s true. Trump did seem to Stoke the fires, so to speak. But behind “politician speak.” Clumsy as it appeared to me. But still. He condemned both sides of the Charlottesville incident, iirc. One side which had literal no joke torch wielding Nazis. I’ve seen the footage for myself back when it happened. Unless they were fighting like idk the New Black Panthers, I don’t see how one could say such a thing and not be labelled a racist sympathiser.

Whether or not Trump is specifically racist, I can’t say. Maybe he’s egalitarian, idk.
I have many issues with the man, but I do think he appealed to people who were upset at the current political system. Many of who are just regular folk, to be clear.
But some who are ostracised due to what are now considered outdated beliefs. Make of that what you will.

I just think like all politicians he only saw such supporters as stepping stones to power. But I’m cynical of politics in general.

America does seem to have a racism problem. But there’s so many weird layers to it. I can barely keep up with my own country’s scarred history, let alone America’s. Maybe it’s because the country is still relatively young. Still. Idk.

 

[Heyo]

Group pride has, throughout history, been thought of as a virtue. That's a mistake. Group pride is actually disguised arrogance because we know intuitively that the man who is especially proud of being Irish and Catholic would be just as proud if, by some twist of fate, he had been raised to think of himself as a German and Lutheran. It isn't that his groups are wonderful. It's that HE is wonderful and they are HIS groups.

The ever-present other side of the Group Pride coin is Group Prejudice: Our nation is superior to theirs! Our religion is superior to theirs! Our tribe is superior to theirs! Arrogant group pride has been the root cause of most wars throughout history.

Another ever-present facet of group pride is arrogant entitlement. When we humans feel superior to others, the moral rules which govern the behavior of ordinary people don't seem to apply to us.

In my opinion, all humans are burdened with an arrogance problem to some extent. I think the MAGA people are burdened just a tad more.

I see it a bit more differentiated. Yes, unearned pride is hollow, group prejudice and arrogant entitlement is dangerous.
But group pride can be a force for good and it once was an ideal. "Noblesse oblige" puts the duty in the group pride. It is the antithesis to arrogant entitlement: arrogant responsibility.