What is source of human good qualities?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I mean, there is no hormone or chemical which makes you fair and just, or more generous. These qualities comes from the heart or within.

I trust that you will never tell an atheist anything like "you can't prove a negative" when talking about God... right?

 

[Valjean]

"Human good qualities" are relics of our Pleistocene evolution. Band solidarity and altruism were selective, they enabled a weak, slow, essentially helpless ape to survive.

 

[rational experiences]

Humans ask questions of other humans.

Once says the human being, we all once were living as the same human family.

Exact same and equal parents, same life, same DNA no matter where you lived on Earth. The same DNA quotes science of the Genetic biological studies.

Humans talking to humans.

Humans looks at other humans, says look how changed they are, as an aware self.

Who is the spiritual higher self detailing human being lowered selves, by brain and mind conditions and by physical inherited living life bodies? The human spiritual self.

Human spiritual self living in one holy body of water, oxygenated and bio life micro forms. With animals, and also the Garden nature.

Water a very old body of created mass historically, owns our living existing support had always owned it.

The highest natural spiritual state for a human the water/oxygenated microbe life support.

Ask a human how come your family got mutated and looked like apes? A lower living self present life form in the same water oxygenated atmospheric mass?

Real answer a scientist brother and his group built fake, artificial machines and irradiated burnt us. How the lower spiritual human self now exists.

Spiritual self and spiritual consciousness was never in any human natural history, highest form in same equal water mass, any thing like an ape.

But if you asked why you ended life looking like an ape, know your occult science brother a dis spirited thinker.....not for water mass support, but splitter of water mass did it to you. Questioner of everyone on all forums trying to identify our spiritual human life so he can eradicate us in an instance with a held opened radiating channel by machine ownership and control.

Actually.

 

[ajay0]

In Bahai view, it is our Spirit, which is the driving force for good human qualities. In another words, we have a Spirit, which is the real being. It is that spirit which drives the physical body to do good things.
What is your idea?

In hinduism, the soul or 'spirit' as you put it, is pure consciousness, and pure consciousness is naturally loving and virtuous in essence.

It is psychological cravings and aversions for sensory pleasure and pain, based on past memories of pleasure and pain, that is the sources of vices in us like greed, hatred, lust,cruelty, theft and so on. Such psychological cravings and aversions can be potent enough to override normally virtuous conduct and behavior, and are the cause of the impure consciousness within us.

All spiritual exercises in all religions aim at purification of the consciousness through meditation, present moment awareness or mindfulness, unconditional love, virtuous conduct and selfless service.

 

[ajay0]

As I stated earlier, the pure consciousness within us is naturally virtuous in disposition.

Buddhism and Hinduism teaches that voluntary virtuous conduct is potent in itself to bring about enlightenment.

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. - Buddha AN 10.1

“When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always.” - Swami Satchidananda

I have explained this further in this thread of mine...

Female enlightened master Rajini Menon on attaining enlightenment by adhering to virtuous conduct...

 

[firedragon]

As I stated earlier, the pure consciousness within us is naturally virtuous in disposition.

In all honesty, we dont know that. We assume so based on what sciences we assess in the modern world. In Public Relations we do the same and we begin with the premise that human beings have a moral disposition by default. They expect the world to be good by default. Thats why violence sells. Violence sells because its news to people who think the world is a good place. Otherwise its not news.

But this doesnt mean that humans did not evolve into being what we are now. It could be that there was an objective morality initiated by a causer, vis a vis, God.

 

[viole]

We know, our body, has certain hormones, and brain chemicals which gives us certain feelings. For example feeling depressed, or feeling hungry, or feeling attracted to opposite sex all have to do with such hormones, and brain chemicals.
We also have physical senses, such as touch, smelling, hearing..., which is again abilities of our body.
But, when we feel by heart to be kind and compassionate to the weak and needy to be generous to poor, to be just and fair, to be forgiving..., it has nothing to do with hormones or brain chemicals, scientifically speaking. I mean, there is no hormone or chemical which makes you fair and just, or more generous. These qualities comes from the heart or within.
So, what is the deriving force behind these good human qualities?

We could argue that without those properties we would be extinct. Therefore, it is plausible that they have been naturally selected during the evolution of our brain. And nothing "cognitive" comes from the heart, since its main function if to pump blood.

For instance: being generous might increase the availability of scarce resources and improve the survivability of our genes. With "my" genes I mean "yours", too, since we share a large percentage thereof.

We can make a robot, that "acts", in certain situations. For example, we can program a robot that goes around and says nice and kind words to others. But that does not come from feelings within. It is just a computer program running in the CPU of the robot.
So, again, where does the driving force for human good qualities come from?

Now you are begging the question that our cognitive processes are not reducible to natural phenomena. In other words: you are assuming a dualistic position to challenge the monistic one.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Valjean]

In hinduism, the soul or 'spirit' as you put it, is pure consciousness, and pure consciousness is naturally loving and virtuous in essence.

How do you know this? Doesn't virtue revolve around interactions with others -- who don't exist at the level of Unity? "Naturally loving?" Loving what, itself?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"Human good qualities" are relics of our Pleistocene evolution. Band solidarity and altruism were selective, they enabled a weak, slow, essentially helpless ape to survive.

I see a fair bit of arrogance in the idea being pushed by the OP: "my thought processes and behaviours are too amazing and complex to come from anything physical! I'm so amazing that there must be a God to explain how I am!"

 

[ajay0]

How do you know this? Doesn't virtue revolve around interactions with others -- who don't exist at the level of Unity? "Naturally loving?" Loving what, itself?

The nature of pure consciousness is that of present moment awareness, total love and virtuous conduct.

All enlightened masters manifest these qualities easily and effortlessly , either in solitude or interactions with other sentient beings.

The unenlightened, especially the vicious, too have this core of pure consciousness within them, but which is covered by layers of ego( as STDV eloquently puts it) , These layers of ego are but past psychological impressions (vasanas) of pleasure and pain that germinate as cravings and aversions that override virtuous conduct.

Hitler and Himmler's intense desires of aversion manifested in delusional hatred towards the Jews, gypsies and handicapped, and strove to exterminate them , overriding their basic understanding and application of virtuous conduct.

Their craving and greed for power at all costs made them assassinate their political opponents unethically.

Brahman is there both in Hitler and Jesus, but in Jesus the ego composed of cravings and aversions, has been exterminated in enlightenment. This was not the case with Hitler who was plagued by the dictates of his ego and acted accordingly and viciously.

 

[columbus]

But, when we feel by heart to be kind and compassionate to the weak and needy to be generous to poor, to be just and fair, to be forgiving..., it has nothing to do with hormones or brain chemicals, scientifically speaking. I mean, there is no hormone or chemical which makes you fair and just, or more generous. These qualities comes from the heart or within.
So, what is the deriving force

We don't just feel it magically.
We learned it.

We learn it in many ways. But we learn it from other humans, and by observation. Most people start learning this nearly at birth, so it gives the illusion of being innate, but it's not. Some people learn it better than others.
But what we're born with, what God teaches us, isn't much different from what other apes are born with. Some is good, much is amoral instinct honed by a billion years of undirected evolution. Our immoral tendencies are just the amoral instincts that helped our ancestors survive and reproduce, that haven't been overridden by our learning.

An example is our instincts towards impulsive sex. For natural humans, it drives us to make babies. As many as possible. But we can learn to channel our sexuality into positive things. We can learn to override what God taught us (Go forth and multiply), and channel our sexuality into cementing positive relationships. That doesn't always happen. Some people learn it better than others. Some people form monogamous relationships that are mutually supportive for their whole adult lives. Others try, but cheat occasionally. Some become serial rapists.

But here's the bottom line. God teaches us to be rapey slΩts. We can learn other behavior from humans. Humans are the source of morality, not God Our Creator.
Tom

 

[MNoBody]

for those who have children.....from where do the parental feelings come from?
to nurture, protect and assist?
to be compassionate, to be benevolent? from whence cometh these?
the philosophers and mystics have been scratching their butts for millennia, and the answers are as varied as we can see by seeking to absorb all their various ideas, which are myriad.
the answers we seek may come from comparing the similarities these ideas share in common.

 

[columbus]

for those who have children.....from where do the parental feelings come from?
to nurture, protect and assist?

That's obvious.
Evolution.

Humans are animals. We are the descendants of those organisms that successfully produced progeny that also successfully reproduced.
Tom

 

[MNoBody]

That's obvious.
Evolution.

Humans are animals. We are the descendants of those organisms that successfully produced progeny that also successfully reproduced.
Tom

evolution is a process, like combustion or any transformative alchemical process
so are you suggesting that clay can of itself become a pot?
all fired and glazed and running around pouring tea of its own volition's?

 

[Valjean]

for those who have children.....from where do the parental feelings come from?
to nurture, protect and assist?
to be compassionate, to be benevolent? from whence cometh these?

Mommy-Baby Bond: Building Attachment Through Oxytocin and Dopamine

evolution is a process, like combustion or any transformative alchemical process
so are you suggesting that clay can of itself become a pot?
all fired and glazed and running around pouring tea of its own volition's?

Do you not understand how natural selection works? What could be more obviously selective than good parenting?

 

[MNoBody]

dopamine, oxycontin and serotonin, yup, know about those, the drives...... the nice drug cocktail that motivates our every action......and natural selection has never produced a change in kind, only adaptation to environmental stimuli....

 

[Valjean]

dopamine, oxycontin and serotonin, yup, know about those, the drives...... the nice drug cocktail that motivates our every action......and natural selection has never produced a change in kind, only adaptation to environmental stimuli....

I can't figure out if you're disparaging the ToE or supporting it, here.

 

[columbus]

evolution is a process, like combustion or any transformative alchemical process
so are you suggesting that clay can of itself become a pot?
all fired and glazed and running around pouring tea of its own volition's?

No.
We humans are an emergent property of nonsentient influences.
It's humans who suffer from the delusion that we're somehow "intended" or something, by a mysterious sky king with superpowers, that nobody has any important information about(information that can be distinguished from wishful delusion).
Tom

 

[MNoBody]

No.
We humans are an emergent property of nonsentient influences.
It's humans who suffer from the delusion that we're somehow "intended" or something, by a mysterious sky king with superpowers, that nobody has any important information about(information that can be distinguished from wishful delusion).
Tom

oh, the man on the moon story for children.....it has people tied up in ignorance, doesn't it

 

[columbus]

oh, the man on the moon story for children.....it has people tied up in ignorance, doesn't it

No.
That's the Legend of the Christ.
Tom