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Does your God have a God?

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
*PLEASE NOTE BEFORE RESPONDING* - This is Religions Q&A, which is not a debate forum.


In your religion or worldview, does your God have a God? Is there a hierarchy?

Do you work with or worship a lesser God than what is considered the supreme God? For what reason?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
In your religion or worldview, does your God have a God?
No debate forum, I love that.
Below, as always, is just my experience and my personal opinion:

In my "God-view" there is 1 God

Is there a hierarchy?
Nice and simple, no hierarchy

Once I did my SoHum prayer (silently) and very intense with full focus, in a Church, where they had a 12 hour ceremony of singing hymns
After ca. 6 hours Jesus appeared to me (only happened once; both: doing such a focused 6 hour mantra session + Jesus appearing that way)

The great lessons I learned from this:
It does not matter which Name I use, God will come, and appear in the Form you pray to.
Afterwards I was surprised Jesus came, while I did SoHum (never expected that to happen)
But thinking about it, it does make sense, remembering His words in the Bible (My Father and I are one)
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Do you work with or worship a lesser God than what is considered the supreme God?
The moment I worship, and use name and/or form, I worship something less than the Supreme God
Only when "I worship" in the way that "I" disappears, "Worshipper" disappears, and "Worship" disappears it gets closer to the "Supreme God"

For what reason?
Worship with Name/Form is easier than without. With Name/Form is a good start to get sadhana going. God Grants boons either way.
 
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LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
*PLEASE NOTE BEFORE RESPONDING* - This is Religions Q&A, which is not a debate forum.


In your religion or worldview, does your God have a God? Is there a hierarchy?

Do you work with or worship a lesser God than what is considered the supreme God? For what reason?

Jesus is one of the many other children of God whom God has exalted above all others.
Jesus is the King of kings and Captain of their salvation.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
*PLEASE NOTE BEFORE RESPONDING* - This is Religions Q&A, which is not a debate forum.


In your religion or worldview, does your God have a God? Is there a hierarchy?

Do you work with or worship a lesser God than what is considered the supreme God? For what reason?

of course there is a Hierarchy

that much stands to reason

at the top of the list.....Almighty

there is only ONE Almighty

the term is self explanatory


The Urantia Book lays out this Hierarchy in great detail. Worth the read if you force yourself to muddle through the first six hundred pages.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I recognize that Jesus has a God who is the only true God.

This didn't really answer my question. Please allow me to rephrase.

Do you worship Jesus, are you in turn worshiping God as well? Do you ever worship God a the exclusion of Jesus?

As a follow-up to the above, why do you worship Jesus, who has a God, if you can just as easily worship God? Is Jesus a liaison of sorts?
 

Gargovic Malkav

Well-Known Member
*PLEASE NOTE BEFORE RESPONDING* - This is Religions Q&A, which is not a debate forum.


In your religion or worldview, does your God have a God? Is there a hierarchy?

Do you work with or worship a lesser God than what is considered the supreme God? For what reason?

For me, there is only one True God. That is the one I worship. I may work with other spirits and some of them may be called "gods" in other cultures or religions, but I do not worship them. Working with them is more or less the same for me as working with other people. And I don't worship people either, though I do give them some credit whenever I feel grateful for what they do. But even then, I thank my God for giving His creatures the knowledge and skill to do good things, because He is the Source and Ruler of everything.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
This didn't really answer my question. Please allow me to rephrase.

Do you worship Jesus, are you in turn worshiping God as well? Do you ever worship God a the exclusion of Jesus?

As a follow-up to the above, why do you worship Jesus, who has a God, if you can just as easily worship God? Is Jesus a liaison of sorts?
It's a simple matter of recognizing Jesus is the head of the church and God is the head of Jesus. And that God has given all things to His son Jesus.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
*PLEASE NOTE BEFORE RESPONDING* - This is Religions Q&A, which is not a debate forum.


In your religion or worldview, does your God have a God? Is there a hierarchy?

Do you work with or worship a lesser God than what is considered the supreme God? For what reason?

Yes. In my sampradaya, Siva is supreme, and everything comes from Him. So Ganesha, and Murugan primarily are the important Gods. He emanated each of them. At the deeper monism level there is no difference, but at the theistic level there is. The reason is to make it simpler. Although He can do all of the functions of either Ganesha or Murugan, He designated certain duties to each of them. For the devotee, it enhances concentration. As you get to know the two 'sons' you get to know what to pray for, and you can keep awareness in that prayer state easier. Praying to Siva can just overwhelm you.

An analogy would be a king having assistants. Although the king could do someting for you, he'll often refer you to his assistants.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Oooh, this is an intriguing question @SalixIncendium

In Nicene Christianity, we obviously have the doctrine of "one ousia [essence] in three hypostases [usually rendered 'persons' but more properly 'subsistent relations']". In the creed, the Lord Jesus is referred to as "God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father".

St. Thomas Aquinas’s tells us in the Summa that the “the act of God’s intellect is His substance (essence)” and thus His self-consciousness as an object in Himself is common to the Persons as one 'being', rather than individuated severally. However, the Christian revelation equally informs us - and over-above 'simple monotheism' - in a special way that this Divine Being does not exist in eternal 'solitude' but rather is 'supremely happy in Himself' with Himself.

The traditional scholastic formula (from St. Thomas Aquinas) thus contends that: "God is not three consciousnesses but One Consciousness who subsists in a threefold relation of Father, Son and Holy Spirit", to quote the great divine Robert South (1634 – 1716) in his Animadversions against the tritheistic heresy of William Sherlocke (who, inspired by Descartes, preached a "unity of shared consciousness between three infinite divine minds").

What's interesting is that the Father generates (and is 'unoriginated' Himself), the Son is begotten of the Father and the Holy Spirit proceeds from both. God is perfectly one in the 'absolute' sense, except for these eternal relations of origin in the 'relative' sense. So there is, within the 'inner life' of God as He relates to Himself, three 'relations' of origin, whereby we can understand the 'Father' to be the source of the Godhead.

However, the Persons are co-equally the one "summa res" (Supreme Reality) in essence, being, will, intellect and consciousness - so that in Himself, God is one undivided and ineffable Being (not three distinct 'conciousnesses' or agents, which would amount to three Gods) - even though they are really distinct from each other relatively speaking).

St. Augustine of Hippo provided our western theological tradition with its classic expression of Trinitarianism, through a psychological analogy of the Trinity in which the unity of essence is compared with the rational part of the human soul, composed as it is of “the mind, and the knowledge by which it knows itself, and the love by which it loves itself.” The Son's 'generation' from the Father is not from 'cause to effect' (which would make Him an inferior, dependant entity to the Father) but rather is an 'intellective process' whereby the one Mind of God comes first to know or contemplate Himself and generates His own (mental) self-image (hence why we call Jesus the 'Word of God') which is the Son of God. The love with which God loves or delights in Himself is the Holy Spirit, the 'bond' of love between the Father and the Son.

As St. Augustine of Hippo explained:


CHURCH FATHERS: Confessions, Book XIII (St. Augustine)


But the three things I speak of are, To Be, to Know, and to Will. For I Am, and I Know, and I Will; I Am Knowing and Willing; and I Know myself to Be and to Will; and I Will to Be and to Know. In these three, therefore, let him who can see how inseparable a life there is — even one life, one mind, and one essence; finally, how inseparable is the distinction, and yet a distinction. Surely a man has it before him; let him look into himself, and see, and tell me.

But when he discovers and can say anything of these, let him not then think that he has discovered that which is above these Unchangeable, which Is unchangeably, and Knows unchangeably, and Wills unchangeably. And whether on account of these three there is also, where they are, a Trinity; or whether these three be in Each, so that the three belong to Each; or whether both ways at once, wondrously, simply, and vet diversely, in Itself a limit unto Itself, yet illimitable; whereby It is, and is known unto Itself, and suffices to Itself, unchangeably the Self-same, by the abundant magnitude of its Unity — who can readily conceive? Who in any wise express it? Who in any way rashly pronounce thereon?


So, I would have to make a distinction here beween "God as he is in Himself" (absolutely) and "God as He relates to Himself" (relatively). In the first sense considered absolutely in Himself, there is no 'God from God': just one supreme, inexpressible divine reality which neither begets, is begotten nor spirates but just 'Is' and knows, wills, loves etc. In the second sense, however, God has knowledge of Himself by generating a distinct Image of Himself and loves Himself through that contemplation, such that there is a kind of 'internal' hierarchy of 'relations' (distinct manners of subsisting of the one divine essence).

This doctrine of God was summarised, as follows, by the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) [which for Catholics is the twelfth ecumenical council]:

Fourth Lateran Council : 1215 Council Fathers - Papal Encyclicals


We, however, with the approval of this sacred and universal council, believe and confess that there exists a certain Supreme Reality [summa res], incomprehensible and ineffable, which truly is the Father and the Son and the holy Spirit, the three persons together and each one of them separately.

Therefore in God there is only a Trinity, not a quaternity, since each of the three persons is that reality — that is to say substance, essence or divine nature-which alone is the principle of all things, besides which no other principle can be found. This reality neither begets nor is begotten nor proceeds; the Father begets, the Son is begotten and the holy Spirit proceeds. Thus there is a distinction of persons [subsistent relations] but a unity of nature [essence].

Although therefore the Father is one person, the Son another person and the holy Spirit another person, they are not different realities, but rather that which is the Father is the Son and the holy Spirit, altogether the same; thus according to the orthodox and catholic faith they are believed to be consubstantial. For the Father, in begetting the Son from eternity, gave him his substance, as he himself testifies : What the Father gave me is greater than all. It cannot be said that the Father gave him part of his substance and kept part for himself since the Father’s substance is indivisible, inasmuch as it is altogether simple.

Nor can it be said that the Father transferred his substance to the Son, in the act of begetting, as if he gave it to the Son in such a way that he did not retain it for himself; for otherwise he would have ceased to be substance. It is therefore clear that in being begotten the Son received the Father’s substance without it being diminished in any way, and thus the Father and the Son have the same substance. Thus the Father and the Son and also the holy Spirit proceeding from both are the same reality.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
I believe that the higher powers who are at work within The Simulation and who we mistake as God (or Gods) were ultimately created by a Supreme Being - so yes, those "gods" (with a lower-case G and in inverted commas) have a God - which I prefer to call The Supreme Being...

I don't believe The Supreme Being has any equals or superiors - he or she is, of course, "Supreme"

See this dictionary definition:

Supreme. adjective 1 highest in rank or authority: a unified force with a supreme commander. • most important or powerful: on the race track he reigned supreme.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
*PLEASE NOTE BEFORE RESPONDING* - This is Religions Q&A, which is not a debate forum.


In your religion or worldview, does your God have a God? Is there a hierarchy?

Do you work with or worship a lesser God than what is considered the supreme God? For what reason?
I do not know the answer to your question :)
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
In my understanding of gods, asking of the gods have gods is not the same question as asking if there is a hierarchy.

Gods are simply that which are deemed worthy of worship by the beholder. What do the gods behold? I cannot say. Given diversity is is a basic rule of the universe/gods, though, I would speculate that some gods have gods, other gods don't have gods. They're going to have different perspectives given their natures, if them having a "perspective" truly applies as humans understand the term.

As for hierarchies, I reject that sort of thinking in my tradition. Everything in the universe/gods is interconnected and interdependent. Any hierarchy is thus illusionary. The leaves may rest high upon the tree, but without the trunk and the roots, they would not stand there.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
*PLEASE NOTE BEFORE RESPONDING* - This is Religions Q&A, which is not a debate forum.


In your religion or worldview, does your God have a God? Is there a hierarchy?

Do you work with or worship a lesser God than what is considered the supreme God? For what reason?
I take it you refer to some kind of Hindu concept of worship such as adoration or chanting? To me it appears that God worships us in a way...at least in the sense that you are talking about, but its only in a very undefinable amount.
 
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