Are You Glad the IQ Morality Tests Presented by Yeshua in the Bible is Too Complex for Most?

[74x12]

Pauline/Johanine Christianity are also heirs because Paul and the writer of the book of John were both Pharisees. Paul said he was a Pharisee after he as preaching his gospel and the book of John was written from the perspective of a Pharisee.

As for Paul, he was an admitted pharisee but had his conversion moment. Then later on in his ministry he became one of the most animate and outspoken opposers of Christians who tried to mix in Pharisaic doctrine. Just see the book of Galatians to see what Paul thought of the "leaven of the pharisees".

As for John. Well, I don't see where John ever claimed to be a pharisee. He most likely did attend pharisee ran synagogues before he met Jesus. But from what I see if you read the book of John and take it at face value(which you ought to because it's the only source we have to learn about what John actually thought) then you quickly see that John and his friends were originally disciples of John the baptist first. And when John the baptist saw Jesus he said "behold the lamb of God" and John(the apostle) heard him say it and so it peaked his interest and he followed Jesus to where Jesus was staying and the rest is history. Having met Jesus, he became one of Jesus' most faithful disciples.

Now let's compare what John the baptist said about pharisees because if John(the apostle) was a follower of John the baptist then we can safely assume he likely had similar views on pharisees as John the baptist.

Here is what John thought of the pharisees:

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Basically John the baptist believed that Pharisees needed to repent and stop being "vipers" and stop trusting in their ancestry to justify them.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

religion is often something that tries to unite people under a common cause of having better morality.

Religion is divisive. And it does a poor job of teaching morality. It also teaches people that believing by faith is a virtue It is not. It is a logical error and potentially a dangerous one if one lets his faith-based beliefs bleed into reality. There's probably no harm in believing that one will meet angels after death, but if one believes that they will protect him while driving recklessly, he will make a mistake.

There are multiple religions in the world, lots are highly intellectual, to assume that all are faith based, and that people who follow said logic are stupid, when we've not studied them is ego.

Any system of though based on faith is not intellectual. People who believe by faith are more properly called illogical than stupid.

Where because they're just racist bigots who refuse to study other people's culture, where they often were force-fed Christianity in some way, and assume all religion has the same cult mentality, they then go on to say all religion globally is for stupid people, as they all follow the same cult mentality.

All I'm saying is that I have no use for god beliefs, religion, or faith-based thought.

You see Moses Curse catches out those who follow it, and those who go against it (Deuteronomy 28-30:10) to see who pays attention

I see that you're still quoting scripture to me. Didn't you understand when I just told you that that means nothing to me?

Also, you're still making unevidenced claims. Why bother? Just assume that all such statements will be rejected.

you believed the Bible upside down, and didn't realize it should have said the Evil Bible on it

It's not evil. It's just wrong and to me, useless.

This thread is about how the Bible is an IQ morality hypocrite test, so far you follow it so much you don't even realize this, and are trying to win a debate, by going opposite to wisdom.

And there you go again playing the role of the wise one. Sorry, but I haven't seen wisdom from you. You've let religion consume your attention and disturb your equanimity.

Have you taken the time to study anything else but theology? If so, it doesn't come through in your posting.

And you are singing to the choir if you mean that biblical morality is flawed.

Clearly this is not the case, considering the amount of errors in comprehension already shown, and if we developed a real conversation about what you still believe in the Bible: there will be a reason you've got most things backwards, else you'd not be down here near Hell before the Great Tribulation.

No, I used to have things backwards, but I got better.

As for what I still believe in the Bible? Haven't I been clear enough? Nothing that hasn't been confirmed with academic scholarship (theology is not that) and evidence, and even there, it's the evidence I believe, no the scripture.

 

[wizanda]

I see that you're still quoting scripture to me. Didn't you understand when I just told you that that means nothing to me?

Also, you're still making unevidenced claims. Why bother? Just assume that all such statements will be rejected.

Sorry yet if someone wants to ignore history, context, religion, science, maths, and anything logical on a religious debate forum, there is nothing more we can debate.

Have you taken the time to study anything else but theology? If so, it doesn't come through in your posting.

Having used maths to prove a Source, it is very obvious, we won't get anywhere explaining complex equations in the religious texts globally; if someone is unwilling to question, as they think they know more than everyone put together.

In my opinion.

 

[74x12]

It is a logical error and potentially a dangerous one if one lets his faith-based beliefs bleed into reality. There's probably no harm in believing that one will meet angels after death, but if one believes that they will protect him while driving recklessly, he will make a mistake.

First of all the scripture says don't tempt God. God doesn't necessarily protect anyone who is reckless. You are supposed to do your part and trust God to do His. If you're reckless then that's foolish and God has no pleasure in fools. So I won't say He won't ever protect fools; but you're asking for it if you're foolish. As the book of Proverbs makes clear; much of what people suffer in this life is from their poor decisions and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

As for faith being logical or not ... I believe in the context of this world it is logical because we have come to realize and understand that we cannot trust anything in the world. So then what to believe? Because there are forces stronger than we are that will always keep us away from the truth. Trust in God is the only logical choice because only God can show us the truth in a world ruled by lies.

The scripture makes it clear that the world is ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. It is beyond us and we cannot grasp it on our own. Only faith will bring us to it because only God can give it against all the odds that are against us. But faith is not blind because it's answered and when it is answered you know it was truth and so you find strength to seek for it again.

 

[wizanda]

As for Paul, he was an admitted pharisee but had his conversion moment.

It isn't about Paul claiming to convert to following Christ, he was still Pharisaic in doctrine...

The idea the Pharisees had condoned that the Murdered prophets could count as a form of Atonement, is where Yeshua threw the book at them, and Divorced Israel.

Then Paul taught this same doctrine, that Christ came to die for the sins of the world; which is accusing God of murder (Balaam Teachings - Micah 6:5-8).

God doesn't require sacrifice, as God manifests everything, so can forgive sin as it chooses.

In my opinion.

 

[74x12]

It isn't about Paul claiming to convert to following Christ, he was still Pharisaic in doctrine...

The idea the Pharisees had condoned that the Murdered prophets could count as a form of Atonement, is where Yeshua threw the book at them, and Divorced Israel.

Then Paul taught this same doctrine, that Christ came to die for the sins of the world; which is accusing God of murder (Balaam Teachings - Micah 6:5-8).

God doesn't require sacrifice, as God manifests everything, so can forgive sin as it chooses.

In my opinion.

Paul helped murder Stephen who did nothing wrong. But when Paul saw the light of Jesus then he was blinded and the spiritual scales came off his eyes so he could see truly as he should see. That is all things as reflected and refracted in the light of Jesus Christ which gives true vision. Then he repented for what he had done and said he was the worst sinner.

So Paul loved the light when he saw it. And good for him.

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

If all things are upheld by the Word of creation then going against that Word will bring destruction. Transgression of the Word is unsustainable ... So God has to make us anew and this is why Jesus had to die a "sacrifice". He puts to death in Himself those things that are against God which live in mankind so that mankind can be free of them.

This is why Jesus took on the curse that was written in the Law. "Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree". And He put it death in Himself. And when He rose from the dead He was free from it and we are free in Him if we understand and obey.

Knowledge is unfruitful without understanding and understanding is fruitful through action which is true wisdom. God is not a murderer. The pharisees chose the murderer Barabbas and denied their only God and they consented to His death. But even they could repent because God died for them also.

The death of Jesus was the only way to fix everything. Because the universe was/is coming undone. Falling away from the Word that holds it together. It is therefore turning towards destruction and is bursting into flames by itself. But God said "behold I make all things new" and this begins with new life from the dead. This new creation will be founded on something better than the old one because the foundation is on that "tried stone" that "precious cornerstone" a "sure foundation". Why tried? Because He's tested to death and has overcome. Why "sure"? Because He cannot fail.

It's good to know the substance of our foundations. Are we building on temporal or eternal ground? Because Jesus alone is eternal in all this creation. Everything else must vanish like smoke.

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great."


"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." -Jesus

 

[wizanda]

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Honestly I think people are trying to be dumb, if we can show I'm the "2nd coming" of Christ from scripture, and I'm trying to explain why people shouldn't follow the Pharisees (John, Paul, and Simon).

I'm here to open the books, and to point out the Judgement on mankind before the Great Tribulation, I've explained the contradictions in the Bible, and how to fix them.

Currently you're posting the fake Gospel of John as being the words of Yeshua, when he didn't speak like it, and using Paul's doctrine to summarize your points.

Try learning the differences between Salvation (Yeshua), and the Pharisaic idol 'j+sēs' (Isaiah 51:8).

Understand why Yehoshua called Simon the Stumbling Stone (petros) fulfilling Zechariah 3:9, and Isaiah 8:11-16, that Simon the Stumbling Stone would mislead the world, in contrast to the Rock of Salvation (Yeshua - Deuteronomy 32:15).

In my opinion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Honestly I think people are trying to be dumb, if we can show I'm the "2nd coming" of Christ from scripture, and I'm trying to explain why people shouldn't follow the Pharisees (John, Paul, and Simon).

I'm here to open the books, and to point out the Judgement on mankind before the Great Tribulation, I've explained the contradictions in the Bible, and how to fix them.

Currently you're posting the fake Gospels of John as being the words of Yeshua, when he didn't speak like it, and using Paul's doctrine to summarize your points.

Try learning the differences between Salvation (Yeshua), and the Pharisaic idol 'j+sēs'.

Understand why Yehoshua called Simon the Stumbling Stone (petros) fulfilling Zechariah 3:9, and Isaiah 8:11-16, that Simon the Stumbling Stone would mislead the world, in contrast to the Rock of Salvation (Yeshua - Deuteronomy 32:15).

In my opinion.

I think I found the answer to why people do not believe you are who you claim to be. A real messiah would not go around calling people Idiot, stupid, ignorant, incompetent and so on. The language you use to describe people is not the language of one who comes down from heaven to help guide people.
It is the word of one who has become grandiose about who he claimed to be and obsessed with that everyone who sees his fault are complete idiots and that if people show they are not interested, the more he spoke out loud with more and more grandiose words.

This is why people in RF see you not as Messiah but as someone who lost it. (sorry for being so blunt)

 

[wizanda]

The language you use to describe people is not the language of one who comes down from heaven to help guide people.
It is the word of one who has become grandiose about who he claimed to be and obsessed with that everyone who sees his fault are complete idiots and that if people show they are not interested, the more he spoke out loud with more and more grandiose words.

Regardless of being reserved or grandiose, people ignore evidence, and make it personal anyway...

After 16 years of explaining religious errors in comprehension, we're at the end of humanity soon; where only the enlightened saints will be resurrected after in a new world.

So being continuously nice to people in this current world down near Hell, to try to win them over, isn't a necessity; after years of trying, it isn't as important as them paying attention to any chance they have of spiritual survival.

As an archangel I was sent just to tell people you're all about to be deleted, I personally wanted to educate you about the lack of comprehension in your own doctrines. God said you won't learn at 5-6 years old, and there is no point; yet I still wanted to try like the Bhagvagad Gita points out to Arjuna, else my own consciousness in infinity would not feel justified, that we didn't make an effort to spare mortals.

The idea people don't take it seriously is because they don't know the religious texts prophesied this globally: that the last Divine Being will come, fighting with the words of his mouth in debate in the sky; yet people are so argumentative, they think they're winning by debunking with minor arguments of personal error, and not recognizing the major clauses will still soon happen.

A real messiah would not go around calling people Idiot, stupid, ignorant, incompetent and so on.

I do wish you would stop making up what you think the Bible is about; you're literally mental doing this, and don't have a clue on many religious principles, from what I've seen - sorry.

If you understood Buddhist doctrine, you'd not be so pushy.

When you've moved onto Falun Gong, which requires an understanding of Taoism; you've rejected the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu (who is the first incarnation of Li Hongzhi), and Buddha's teachings, which were required as precursors - most practitioners get this.

You're like someone who goes to a MacDonalds of religion, and then insists, and argues I do not wear a Ronanald MacDonald clown suit as the Messiah you expected; as that is what you read about it on the Menu about religions you read somewhere.

As for what Yeshua actually said that was insulting to others, as we've already discussed this once; he was in multiple occasions, since you don't actually study the religious texts - will posts them:

Matthew 7:6 “Don’t give that which is holy to the dogs (Gentiles), neither throw your pearls before the pigs (Gentiles), lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

'Tear to pieces', and 'stample under feet' is reference to the fake idol 'j+sēs', which means a Beast that Shall trample down or tear away.

Isaiah 51:8 For the moth will eat them up like a garment, and the grub (j+sēs - יסס) shall eat them like wool; but my righteousness will be forever, and my salvation (Yeshua) to all generations.

Yeshua called people directly evil:

Matthew 7:11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Yeshua says when people try to gain entrance to Heaven we will define them lawless, and dumb:

Luke 13:27 He will say, ‘I tell you, I don’t know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of iniquity.’

He challenged people for being dumb hypocrites:

Matthew 15:7-9 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, (8) ‘These people draw near to me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. (9) And in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrine rules made by men.’”

Try reading Matthew 23, he called them:

Matthew 23:13 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...

Matthew 23:16 “Woe to you, you blind guides... etc.

The most efficient verse approximate to what I'm stating is this:

Luke 11:52 Woe to you, lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and you have hindered those who were entering in.

This challenges the dumb Levitical Jews who have systematically misunderstood the Tanakh, educated the Gentiles a lie, and according to Moses Curses (Deuteronomy 28-30:10) we soon all get Baptised in Holy Quantum Fire, and only the enlightened saints will remain after who understood this.

Thus if you honestly feel I'm being strong in my words, wait until the quantum fire burns you by the words of the Source to a root level of your very nature; then wonder which was harsh, as honestly I'm being very expressive, not harsh, and you need to toughen up - plus study; as currently it is a joke spiritually what you understand of these contexts.

Just to be clear, thus if you think I'm rude, I find you abhorrent the way you talk about these religious texts without study; yet generally I try to explain to you kindly, not rudely point out where I see your fault.

Though this does sound sharp as a post, I unconditionally love you, and mean know harm to anyone, and from the root of my soul I wish everyone blessings; yet we need to be real with the world's religious prophecy, not the person prophesied to help show they are real, before the end of time for many.

In my opinion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Regardless of being reserved or grandiose, people ignore evidence, and make it personal anyway...

After 16 years of explaining religious errors in comprehension, we're at the end of humanity soon; where only the enlightened saints will be resurrected after in a new world.

So being continuously nice to people in this current world down near Hell, to try to win them over, isn't a necessity; after years of trying, it isn't as important as them paying attention to any chance they have of spiritual survival.

As an archangel I was sent just to tell people you're all about to be deleted, I personally wanted to educate you about the lack of comprehension in your own doctrines. God said you won't learn at 5-6 years old, and there is no point; yet I still wanted to try like the Bhagvagad Gita points out to Arjuna, else my own consciousness in infinity would not feel justified, that we didn't make an effort to spare mortals.

The idea people don't take it seriously is because they don't know the religious texts prophesied this globally: that the last Divine Being will come, fighting with the words of his mouth in debate in the sky; yet people are so argumentative, they think they're winning by debunking with minor arguments of personal error, and not recognizing the major clauses will still soon happen.

I do wish you would stop making up what you think the Bible is about; you're literally mental doing this, and don't have a clue on many religious principles, from what I've seen - sorry.

If you understood Buddhist doctrine, you'd not be so pushy.

When you've moved onto Falun Gong, which requires an understanding of Taoism; you've rejected the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu (who is the first incarnation of Li Hongzhi), and Buddha's teachings, which were required as precursors - most practitioners get this.

You're like someone who goes to a MacDonalds of religion, and then insists, and argues I do not wear a Ronanald MacDonald clown suit as the Messiah you expected; as that is what you read about it on the Menu about religions you read somewhere.

As for what Yeshua actually said that was insulting to others, as we've already discussed this once; he was in multiple occasions, since you don't actually study the religious texts - will posts them:

Matthew 7:6 “Don’t give that which is holy to the dogs (Gentiles), neither throw your pearls before the pigs (Gentiles), lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

'Tear to pieces', and 'stample under feet' is reference to the fake idol 'j+sēs', which means a Beast that Shall trample down or tear away.

Isaiah 51:8 For the moth will eat them up like a garment, and the grub (j+sēs - יסס) shall eat them like wool; but my righteousness will be forever, and my salvation (Yeshua) to all generations.

Yeshua called people directly evil:

Matthew 7:11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Yeshua says when people try to gain entrance to Heaven we will define them lawless, and dumb:

Luke 13:27 He will say, ‘I tell you, I don’t know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of iniquity.’

He challenged people for being dumb hypocrites:

Matthew 15:7-9 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, (8) ‘These people draw near to me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. (9) And in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrine rules made by men.’”

Try reading Matthew 23, he called them:

Matthew 23:13 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!...

Matthew 23:16 “Woe to you, you blind guides... etc.

The most efficient verse approximate to what I'm stating is this:

Luke 11:52 Woe to you, lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and you have hindered those who were entering in.

This challenges the dumb Levitical Jews who have systematically misunderstood the Tanakh, educated the Gentiles a lie, and according to Moses Curses (Deuteronomy 28-30:10) we soon all get Baptised in Holy Quantum Fire, and only the enlightened saints will remain after who understood this.

Thus if you honestly feel I'm being strong in my words, wait until the quantum fire burns you by the words of the Source to a root level of your very nature; then wonder which was harsh, as honestly I'm being very expressive, not harsh, and you need to toughen up - plus study; as currently it is a joke spiritually what you understand of these contexts.

Just to be clear, thus if you think I'm rude, I find you abhorrent the way you talk about these religious texts without study; yet generally I try to explain to you kindly, not rudely point out where I see your fault.

Though this does sound sharp as a post, I unconditionally love you, and mean know harm to anyone, and from the root of my soul I wish everyone blessings; yet we need to be real with the world's religious prophecy, not the person prophesied to help show they are real, before the end of time for many.

In my opinion.

I think you misunderstood my post. You don't speak about how people can save themself, you speak about you as the only way people can be saved, but the problem is that you do not want to save anyone or have people follow your teaching because you do not have any new teaching people could understand how to save themself. you only want to critique the texts that are the religious texts, to me, it seems like you are not helping others, but want everyone to see YOU.

Everyone here knows you see your self as Messiah, Arcangel, But every time someone pushes you a little toward the uncomfortable (that you may not be a messiah) you get upset, frustrated, calling names, speak badly about the religion or spiritual teaching the other person follow.
This is a clear sign that you are only an ordinary person.

You may know a lot about quoting the bible or other religious texts because you do it all the time.
But have you not wondered, since you say you speak the truth about how bad we other people are. Why does nobody listen to you? if you truly were the second coming of Messiah, people would, of course, listen to you and ask for guidance on how to take away their bad habits(sins) But as far as I see. all you do is making people want to go away from you because they feel you as a threat to themself.

I don't feel intimidated by you, nor can you scare me with your "threats" about how bad I am as a person, and how little I know. I think i don't care to speak about this topic again with you Wizanda.

 

[wizanda]

you speak about you as the only way people can be saved

I've never, and will never state this, that is the most crazy interpretation of what is stated... This is because you always look for an idol to follow, not because I state this.

What I state is: people have to accept the Source of reality exists at a state of 0neness, and that all the world's religions, and this whole Matrix is an analogy for us to comprehend Source.

Plus I explain where people have misunderstood the world's religious texts as One, are a big jigsaw puzzle for people to solve; not to throw jigsaw puzzle pieces away, as they can't solve the basics (Revelation 10:11).

You don't speak about how people can save themself

you only want to critique the texts that are the religious texts

I've been sent to explain the contradictions in the texts for Judgement Day; which is exactly how people save themselves, currently we're down near Hell, where the texts all say people are hypocrites who are arrogant who don't study (Gentiles), whilst assuming they're smart.

Therefore the idea you say, the exact opposite of everything I stated, whilst making me into an idol shows a lack of listening, logic, and basically sanity; yet don't worry, I get we're down near Hell before Judgment Day, so I don't blame people for being opposite to wisdom.

you do not have any new teaching people could understand how to save themself.

Having already stated: a whole book of poems on enlightenment, advanced teachings on how the 10 Commandments are Jacobs Ladder explained as Quantum Physics, the necessary forms of Yoga interconnected with the Chakra system as biology, advanced human psychology, and rules of reasoning, etc.

I'm starting to believe you're either just a forum troll or just so arrogant, you do the same on reading what someone is stating, as on reading religious texts, you assume you don't need to actually look at what people are talking about, and then have the audacity to grade them, and then condemn them for it, when you don't actually know what you're talking about.

I don't feel intimidated by you, nor can you scare me with your "threats" about how bad I am as a person, and how little I know.

This thread is appealing to anyone logical enough amongst mankind to help save humanity, and you're trying to do the opposite; may the Source of reality have mercy on you for your lack of compassion, and understanding.

In my opinion.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Sorry yet if someone wants to ignore history, context, religion, science, maths, and anything logical on a religious debate forum, there is nothing more we can debate.

There has never been a debate here, just you telling the thread what you believe, and others telling you that they don't believe you.

And how am I ignoring history? History is full of people making false claims and prophecies in the name of whatever god they prefer.

My personal history is one that taught me that belief by faith is a logical error and that I am happier outside of religion than within.

Science tells us that biblical scripture in Genesis and Exodus are wrong and not to be believed.

I ignore religion because I find no value there.

First of all the scripture says don't tempt God. God doesn't necessarily protect anyone who is reckless. You are supposed to do your part and trust God to do His. If you're reckless then that's foolish and God has no pleasure in fools. So I won't say He won't ever protect fools; but you're asking for it if you're foolish. As the book of Proverbs makes clear; much of what people suffer in this life is from their poor decisions and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

I think that you missed the point. I was referring to the dangers of faith if one lets one's faith-based beliefs dictate choices in reality. It was particularly dangerous for the Branch Davidians and their children, and at Jonestown, where families also perished. Simply believing something without basis can cost one his life.

What you call tempting God another believer might consider a demonstration of faith and trust as with the two disasters just named..

As for faith being logical or not ... I believe in the context of this world it is logical because we have come to realize and understand that we cannot trust anything in the world.

That's not my experience. And even if it were, faith remains illogical for the reasons given. It spits in the face of logic. Where logic is structured as with arithmetic, and if done properly (true premises, evidence properly interpreted, and a chain of thought free from logical fallacy), leads to sound conclusions. Logic is a path. It takes one from a column of numbers to their sum if performed properly.

By faith, one could say that 2 + 2 = 5. It is this undisciplined way of thinking that lacks and defies logic, hence is illogical.

• “If somewhere in the Bible I were to find a passage that said 2 + 2 = 5, I wouldn't question what I am reading in the Bible. I would believe it, accept it as true, and do my best to work it out and understand it."- Pastor Peter laRuffa

This is faith. This is illogical.

So then what to believe? Because there are forces stronger than we are that will always keep us away from the truth. Trust in God is the only logical choice because only God can show us the truth in a world ruled by lies.

I found trusting myself to be the most reliable way to navigate life. And I've found truth enough, which I've defined earlier as that which allows us to predict outcomes, which optimizes life's experience when done properly.

Trusting in God was a big mistake for me. Faith was a mistake. I made a very bad decision choosing the path you recommend.

The scripture makes it clear that the world is ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. It is beyond us and we cannot grasp it on our own.

I understand the limits of knowledge, and that understanding doesn't come biblical scripture.

I also understand the difference between learning and believing by faith.

Only faith will bring us to [the knowledge of truth] because only God can give it against all the odds that are against us.

I've found a better to way to decide what is true about the world.

But faith is not blind because it's answered and when it is answered you know it was truth and so you find strength to seek for it again.

Faith failed me.

Thanks for your interest.

 

[wizanda]

And how am I ignoring history?

The Jews were placed under the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28) at the 2nd Temple Destruction as prophesied, when they paid 30 pieces of silver, and put it in the Potters Field in the House of Israel (Zechariah 11).

Christianity was an elaborate lie they made up, to cover up it ever happened as also prophesied (Ezekiel 22:3), and people are not smart enough to see it has all happened (Isaiah 29:9-14).

In my opinion.

 

[Ebionite]

As for Paul, he was an admitted pharisee but had his conversion moment.

Which he lied about. He made up the part about being appointed as a minister and a witness. (Acts 9, 22, 26).

 

[74x12]

Which he lied about. He made up the part about being appointed as a minister and a witness. (Acts 9, 22, 26).

How do you know he lied?

 

[Ebionite]

How do you know he lied?

Because he talks about lying and misleading people, and because his account of events in Acts 26 contradicts the accounts from Acts 9 & 22, specifically that he was only told to go to Damascus for instructions.

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:7

But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.
2 Corinthians 12:16

Also there's circumstantial evidence that he is referred to in Revelation 2:2, since he was rejected at Ephesus.

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Revelation 2:2

But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
Acts 19:9

 

[74x12]

Because he talks about lying and misleading people, and because his account of events in Acts 26 contradicts the accounts from Acts 9 & 22, specifically that he was only told to go to Damascus for instructions.

The account in Acts 26 is a summary. It seems to skip unnecessary details. It would be strange if the writer of Acts couldn't even get his facts straight enough to make all his stories line up even if he was making it all up. But the fact he records like that proves he's honest.

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:7

Paul's style of writing in the epistles is often in a kind of "debate" style. That is answering various claims, accusations etc. That should be no surprise since we see that Paul is used to debating in synagogues and even with people he met on the streets. (Acts 17:16-17) So it comes out in his writing also.

So what you read in Romans 3:7 is the idea that Paul is actually arguing against. He was presenting an argument someone might make which he could counter. Basically, the questions being raised were:

• Since by forgiving our sins God is glorified; does that mean that we should sin more so that God is glorified?
• And secondly do the ends justify the means?

Paul's answer two both is definitely no and he makes it pretty clear that whoever teaches that idea will face the wrath of God for it.

But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.
2 Corinthians 12:16

in 2 Cor 12:16, Paul seems to be quoting an accusation made against him by someone else. The accusation that he is sneaky and "tricked" them.

Which he counters (in verse 17) by asking them if he took advantage of them at any time by the people he sent to them.

So, he is saying he didn't trick them and it wouldn't have made sense for him to do so; since he wasn't interested in their money.

Also there's circumstantial evidence that he is referred to in Revelation 2:2, since he was rejected at Ephesus.

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Revelation 2:2

But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
Acts 19:9

He was not rejected by the church of Ephesus. That was the synagogue which it's no surprise that the synagogue rejected him. But the church is not recorded to have done so. Which is why Paul's letters to the Ephesians make sense. If they had rejected him; then he would not send them that kind of letter. In fact the church of Ephesus seemed to care about Paul enough that Paul thought it was a good idea to send someone to them just to tell them how they(including Paul) were doing. (see Ephesians 6:21)

 

[wizanda]

But the fact he records like that proves he's honest.

Paul was a Pharisee infiltrator that tried to ruin the 'Followers of the Way' by any means possible, and you are defending him against Christ, when he was a murderer, a liar, and a fake apostle.

Don't expect eternal life when you'd defend the accuser, and deny Christ's message in the Synoptic Gospels to do so.

In my opinion.

 

[74x12]

Paul was a Pharisee infiltrator that tried to ruin the 'Followers of the Way' by any means possible, and you are defending him against Christ, when he was a murderer, a liar, and a fake apostle.

For a complete fraud/spy infiltrator Paul surely was beaten often enough, whipped, and left for dead etc. Finally, they say he was beheaded. That's some dedication for such a low life wouldn't you say?

I believe that heaven keeps all true prayers and stores up good tears. It also must record every scar or wound. So I believe Paul's record of love/loyalty to Christ and the body of Christ are secure.

Don't expect eternal life when you'd defend the accuser, and deny Christ's message in the Synoptic Gospels to do so.

In my opinion.

I'm sorry you hold this view of things.

 

[wizanda]

I'm sorry you hold this view of things.

Sorry to be harsh, it isn't people don't recognize the hardships Paul suffered by creating his Church (Acts 11:25-26); yet some of his persecution, actually came from Yeshua's own Followers...

James, Jude, Revelation, even the letters of John oppose Paul in my understanding of the texts, and you are defending Paul's ignorance.

Understand the Tanakh's precepts, and then Yeshua's Testimony (Isaiah 8:11-22) as a test: John, Paul, and Simon the stumbling stone (peter), are all prophesied deceptions.

Since I've explained it many times on here, and thus am unaware what you don't understand of the topic; why not ask where you don't understand, then we can have a debate about logic.

In my opinion.