Is God or Religious Truth Real?

[Ancient Soul]

Thank you for your response. I'm really trying to understand, learn and share something about spiritual matters. I was looking for forums to find any co-speakers. That's why I landed here at RF.



Some people show more maturity from birth. Possibly they are "old souls" with some milage. Despite the forgetting some things remain in unconscious mind. I think one lifetime is not enough to grow and mature spiritually. I agree life (incarnation) experience should be lived to the fullest but I don't think all growth is lost if you still have some lessons to learn at the end. Between incarnations is supposed to be a "judgment" (review or harvest) and also planning for the next life...

Yes, there are many "old souls" who have built up a good spiritual "foundation" over their many lifetimes that shines thru despite the "forgetting" between their lifetimes. Because that's who they are, like their personality inside of them. But my point was that anyone who has a lot of spiritual understanding and is always striving for ever MORE understanding, should try their hardest to complete the "spiritual evolution" and hopefully pass God's judgment THIS LIFETIME, because they might not have as good an opportunity on the next lifetime. Maybe even falter and lose ground.

Are you saying "passive meditation" works best for you?

Meditation with a prayer word is also supposed to still the mind. The word is repeated mentally as an anchor. If the mind starts wandering the attention is brought back to the word (and breathing). Other function of the word is an appellation for help.

Does "answers through my will" mean inspirations?

This is a perfect example of why I don't want to be a spiritual "leader", "teacher", or any other such thing. As I have no idea how to accurately articulate how many of my spiritual abilities work. Now I suppose there may be some words that could be used to describe the processes, but it would be too time consuming to search them out. Or maybe there just aren't any right words.

But I'll try my best anyway.

I think what most people call meditation would be the best way to start the process, as one's mind has to be silent. Mine almost always is. The only times I have "mind chatter" is when a crisis occurs that gets me stressed out and my mind won't stop trying to find some way(s) out of the crisis. But other than those times, I have no problem keeping my mind silent. I should also mention that I do always try to keep myself spiritually balanced by hiking outdoors almost every day.

I was mulling over your attempt at describing what you find works for you, and decided that instead of going back and forth trying to figure out what things like "spirit", "soul", "inner light", etc., means to each other, to just use a more generic approach.

To connect to your soul or whatever else you want to call it, after silencing your mind, the goal is to shift the greater part of your consciousness, thoughts, self-awareness, mind, or whatever else you want to call it, to the center of "you", your soul, core, inner self, inner light, spirit, or whatever else you want to call it. As the name doesn't matter, but that you can "feel" that your consciousness, thoughts, self-awareness, mind, is coming from the center of "you", your soul, core, inner self, inner light, spirit, etc. As THAT is where the soul's thinking comes from, the core of itself.

Then once "there" in the center of "you" ask God whatever spiritual question you are seeking answers to. I don't really know how to describe how I "ask" spiritual questions from God, as I just do what worked for me during my NDE/OBE. I don't use words, but more like thoughts of my will. Words really fail on how to describe how I do it, so you will have to experiment on your own. My best guess for others would be to ask the question and wait for an answer. And like with anything, it may take a lot of time before getting just the right method that will work for you.

 

[Unity of Mankind]

Deep down, I think we all know God exists. Religion is mankind's attempt to Understand God.

If religion is mankind's attempt to know or understand a God that is responsible for all existence, including humankind, how can the created directly know the Essence from whence it came accept through a pure Source provided by God? Even then there will always be a barrier between what is created and the Origin from whence everything was created. Thus knowing about God through Mediators provided by God in order to bring two extremes together is necessary. Such a difference in acquiring knowledge differentiates religion from science.

In my opinion, the pure Source of knowing about God are the Founders of Religion as part of an ongoing process referred to in the Baha'i Faith as the principle of progressive revelation. As long as mankind exists progressive revelations from God will continue for the spiritual edification of the human soul such as from a Moses, a Jesus Christ, and a Mohammad. Krishna and Buddha represent a different line of religion which was designed to provide what needs there were in specific places and according to local circumstances and needs.

What is unprecedented in history is that now local no longer exists as the world has contracted into one small neighborhood! The Baha'i Faith is the only existent religion to my knowledge that proclaims "The oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of mankind."

Even logically speaking, a divided religion or religions can not stand even as it is recorded in the New Testament of the Bible from Jesus Christ that a house divided can not stand! It is also recorded Jesus claimed Man does not live by bread alone which constitutes in my mind the declaration that man has spiritual needs that are decidedly different in kind to his purely physical needs.

Well, so much for what I clearly see.

 

[Ancient Soul]

If religion is mankind's attempt to know or understand a God that is responsible for all existence, including humankind, how can the created directly know the Essence from whence it came accept through a pure Source provided by God? Even then there will always be a barrier between what is created and the Origin from whence everything was created. Thus knowing about God through Mediators provided by God in order to bring two extremes together is necessary. Such a difference in acquiring knowledge differentiates religion from science.

Religions are based upon individual MEN who make up their own "god" constructs to deceive people into looking to THEM/MEN for spiritual answers, rather than looking directly to God. But they have NO true spiritual answers to give, so always have bombastic gobbledygook to make it look like something clever is being said, when it's just meaningless bombastic gobbledygook.

In my opinion, the pure Source of knowing about God are the Founders of Religion as part of an ongoing process referred to in the Baha'i Faith as the principle of progressive revelation. As long as mankind exists progressive revelations from God will continue for the spiritual edification of the human soul such as from a Moses, a Jesus Christ, and a Mohammad. Krishna and Buddha represent a different line of religion which was designed to provide what needs there were in specific places and according to local circumstances and needs.

God communicates DIRECTLY to all those souls/people who have spiritually evolved to the required level. ALL "messengers"/"founders" of religions are false "messengers".

What is unprecedented in history is that now local no longer exists as the world has contracted into one small neighborhood! The Baha'i Faith is the only existent religion to my knowledge that proclaims "The oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of mankind."

Even logically speaking, a divided religion or religions can not stand even as it is recorded in the New Testament of the Bible from Jesus Christ that a house divided can not stand! It is also recorded Jesus claimed Man does not live by bread alone which constitutes in my mind the declaration that man has spiritual needs that are decidedly different in kind to his purely physical needs.

Well, so much for what I clearly see.

It's common with ALL man made religions to have this form of exclusiveness, that THEIR religion is the ONLY "right" one, and all others are "false". A clear sign that everything in it are man made falsehoods.

 

[Bird123]

If religion is mankind's attempt to know or understand a God that is responsible for all existence, including humankind, how can the created directly know the Essence from whence it came accept through a pure Source provided by God? Even then there will always be a barrier between what is created and the Origin from whence everything was created. Thus knowing about God through Mediators provided by God in order to bring two extremes together is necessary. Such a difference in acquiring knowledge differentiates religion from science.

In my opinion, the pure Source of knowing about God are the Founders of Religion as part of an ongoing process referred to in the Baha'i Faith as the principle of progressive revelation. As long as mankind exists progressive revelations from God will continue for the spiritual edification of the human soul such as from a Moses, a Jesus Christ, and a Mohammad. Krishna and Buddha represent a different line of religion which was designed to provide what needs there were in specific places and according to local circumstances and needs.

What is unprecedented in history is that now local no longer exists as the world has contracted into one small neighborhood! The Baha'i Faith is the only existent religion to my knowledge that proclaims "The oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of mankind."

Even logically speaking, a divided religion or religions can not stand even as it is recorded in the New Testament of the Bible from Jesus Christ that a house divided can not stand! It is also recorded Jesus claimed Man does not live by bread alone which constitutes in my mind the declaration that man has spiritual needs that are decidedly different in kind to his purely physical needs.

Well, so much for what I clearly see.

While God is handing out knowledge from messengers, why do the messengers not tell us the conversion method of converting matter to energy so we can get off the fossil fuels??

You want it too easy. You want it served up on a silver platter.

True Knowledge must be Discovered. That is an Action of God.

Life is about Learning, Growing, and Discovering. It has never been about memorizing.

That's what I see!! It's very Clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

God communicates DIRECTLY to all those souls/people who have spiritually evolved to the required level.

True, but only the Messengers of God that founded the great religions were spiritually evolved to the required level.
That is why God chose to communicate to them.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's common with ALL man made religions to have this form of exclusiveness, that THEIR religion is the ONLY "right" one, and all others are "false". A clear sign that everything in it are man made falsehoods.

Baha'is do not believe that THEIR religion is the ONLY "right" one, and all others are "false." We believe that religions differ from age to age, but they are all the Truth from God.

“These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 287-288

 

[ManSinha]

The Baha'i Faith is the only existent religion to my knowledge that proclaims "The oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of mankind."

That is patent BS

Ever heard of someone called Kabir? He lived in the 15th century and among his many many writings - one is quoted below - as I said to @Tony Bristow-Stagg - I have yet to see one idea coming out of the Baha'i faith that can be called original ......

Next time - please do some research before you make declarative statements that can be easily disproven

 

[Trailblazer]

That is patent BS

Ever heard of someone called Kabir? He lived in the 15th century and among his many many writings - one is quoted below - as I said to @Tony Bristow-Stagg - I have yet to see one idea coming out of the Baha'i faith that can be called original ......

View attachment 37536

Next time - please do some research before you make declarative statements that can be easily disproven

Unity of Mankind said:
"The Baha'i Faith is the only existent religion to my knowledge that proclaims "The oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of mankind."

He did not say that there were no other religions that has these teachings.

Kabir is widely believed to have become one of the many disciples of the Bhakti poet-sant Swami Ramananda in Varanasi, known for devotional Vaishnavism with a strong bent to monist Advaita philosophy teaching that God was inside every person, everything.[3][16][17] Early texts about his life place him with Vaishnava tradition of Hinduism as well as the Sufi tradition of Islam.[18
Kabir - Wikipedia

With all due respect, I do not see where it says on Wikipedia that Kabir taught the oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of mankind.

 

[Ancient Soul]

True, but only the Messengers of God that founded the great religions were spiritually evolved to the required level.
That is why God chose to communicate to them.

SEE!

Nothing ever changes with you!

There you go once again proclaiming who God can or cannot communicate with, based ENTIRELY upon what you were TOLD to believe by your religion.

But it's like I keep telling you, ALL religions have similar exclusiveness clauses built into them, inferring that ONLY THEY are the "right" religion and all others are the "wrong" religion.

Now you already admitted that you have NO PROOF that your "messenger" communicated with any "god", so your above proclamation is baseless, false, unfounded, nothing, even funny!

Besides, I repeatedly gave you a chance to produce clear and concise "messages" from your so-called "messenger" that defined/explained any true spiritual matters that I listed, and you FAILED to produce any. So you got nothing to say about anything spiritual but an unfounded OPINION.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Baha'is do not believe that THEIR religion is the ONLY "right" one, and all others are "false." We believe that religions differ from age to age, but they are all the Truth from God.

“These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 287-288

Geez...

This silly argument is no better than what the Christians try. Copying in a quote to "prove" their point without really seeing what it really says, but instead only seeing what they were brainwashed to "see" instead. As it says NOTHING about "religions". It could also mean the principles and laws of physics for all you know. Or the principles and laws of a light bulb, since it refers to light rays.

Your above quote is just another perfect example of the bombastic gobbledygook I keep telling you it is. All bombastic gobbledygook made to seem clever without really saying anything, no spiritual message, not even making much sense.

So now AGAIN, just WHY would a "god" give a self-proclaimed "messenger" such a meaningless "message"?

 

[ManSinha]

With all due respect, I do not see where it says on Wikipedia that Kabir taught the oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of mankind.

Did you see the quote I presented - Kabir called all humans the children of god and said that one god was responsible for creating all beings -
Get out of your shell and make an attempt at actually reading his writings instead of just going to the limited information on Wikipedia - or are you threatened that your faith will show up badly? Or are you so naive that you believe that ALL of Kabir's writings are on Wikipedia?

In either case you have just declared yourself a petty individual who refuses to be informed and makes decisions based on limited information

Here is another quote

Ask and ye shall receive

Unity of Mankind said:
"The Baha'i Faith is the only existent religion to my knowledge that proclaims "The oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of mankind."

He did not say that there were no other religions that has these teachings.

And that is exactly why I asked that poster to do some research before making declarative statements - they need to educate themselves better - if all you can do is hide behind a hedge then you might as well concede the argument

 

[CG Didymus]

If religion is mankind's attempt to know or understand a God that is responsible for all existence, including humankind, how can the created directly know the Essence from whence it came accept through a pure Source provided by God? Even then there will always be a barrier between what is created and the Origin from whence everything was created. Thus knowing about God through Mediators provided by God in order to bring two extremes together is necessary. Such a difference in acquiring knowledge differentiates religion from science.

Are "manifestations" humans? If so, then God can make people that can understand him and communicate with him. But he didn't do that? Instead, God made most people unable to know him, but dependent on those "special" messenger people. Problem is, how many false prophets, Messiahs, incarnations of God etc. have there been? So the... "not too bright" people that don't know on their own... get easily fooled by anyone claiming to be one of these messenger people.

Then the brightest of the not too bright can take the message from one of those special messenger people and tweak it a little bit and get some of the other not too bright people to follow them and give them lots of money. But they are all being fooled simply because God doesn't want to communicate to his creation directly. Dumb.

 

[CG Didymus]

In my opinion, the pure Source of knowing about God are the Founders of Religion as part of an ongoing process referred to in the Baha'i Faith as the principle of progressive revelation. As long as mankind exists progressive revelations from God will continue for the spiritual edification of the human soul such as from a Moses, a Jesus Christ, and a Mohammad. Krishna and Buddha represent a different line of religion which was designed to provide what needs there were in specific places and according to local circumstances and needs.

We've been through this the other Baha'is here... Krishna didn't "found" a religion. He is one of many avatars that some Hindus believe in. But then, how were the "needs" in India different than in other places? Then, how did those "needs" change that God decided to send them Buddha. But the needs in Persian were so different that they needed Zoroaster. And in Israel they needed Moses then Jesus. Then for centuries Saudi Arabia was being ignored, so God finally sent them his message through Muhammad?

Oh, and let's talk about the Sikhs. What do Baha'i say again? Do you believe they are a mix of Islam and Hinduism or something? And are not an independent religion? And how is that different than the Baha'is and Islam? The Baha'i Faith has lots of things derived from Islam, but yet Baha'i say they are a new religion. Like with all the avatars of Hinduism, they didn't start a brand new religion. They all were part of Hinduism. The same with Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses... they didn't start a new religion. They were all part of Judaism. So only some "messengers" start a new religion. Others are only part of the progression within one religion. Then, Christianity only accepted Judaism as a true religion and added the Jewish Scriptures to their own. Why didn't the Baha'i Faith do that with all the Scriptures of all the other religions.... Like chapters in the same book. I mean if it truly is "progressive".

 

[Trailblazer]

Did you see the quote I presented - Kabir called all humans the children of god and said that one god was responsible for creating all beings -

That is nothing "new." Christians also believe that all humans are children of God and that one God was responsible for creating all beings.

Unity of Mankind said:
"The Baha'i Faith is the only existent religion to my knowledge that proclaims "The oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of mankind."

Please show me where all three onenesses are to be found in another religion.

Get out of your shell and make an attempt at actually reading his writings instead of just going to the limited information on Wikipedia - or are you threatened that your faith will show up badly? Or are you so naive that you believe that ALL of Kabir's writings are on Wikipedia?

In either case you have just declared yourself a petty individual who refuses to be informed and makes decisions based on limited information.

Who said I was making any decisions? I imply said what I did not find on Wikipedia.

Moreover, I said "with all due respect" which is more than you have shown me.

 

[Trailblazer]

There you go once again proclaiming who God can or cannot communicate with, based ENTIRELY upon what you were TOLD to believe by your religion.

No, I never proclaimed who God can or cannot communicate with, based ENTIRELY upon what I was TOLD to believe by my religion.

Trailblazer said: True, but only the Messengers of God that founded the great religions were spiritually evolved to the required level.
That is why God chose to communicate to them.

I only stated what I believe, according to my religion. Nobody told me to believe that, I chose to believe that.

Nobody tells God what to do, God already knows what to do.

 

[Trailblazer]

As it says NOTHING about "religions". It could also mean the principles and laws of physics for all you know. Or the principles and laws of a light bulb, since it refers to light rays.

Sorry, I did not want to post long quotes so I only posted the last part of the paragraph. Below is the whole paragraph so you can see the context.

“The Purpose of the one true God, exalted be His glory, in revealing Himself unto men is to lay bare those gems that lie hidden within the mine of their true and inmost selves. That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 287-288

 

[CG Didymus]

True, but only the Messengers of God that founded the great religions were spiritually evolved to the required level.
That is why God chose to communicate to them.

Jesus was born that way. He didn't have time to "evolve". So are they special creations or are they ordinary humans that grow into being so spiritual that they can communicate with God?

 

[PearlSeeker]

I agree that one lifetime is not enough to grow and mature spiritually, but I do not believe in reincarnation. To be clear, I do not believe that God sends us back to earth to learn more lessons, and there is nothing in the Bible that I know of that supports a belief in reincarnation. My beliefs concur with the Bible, that after we die we die we go to a spiritual world, often referred to has heaven.

According to my beliefs, in the spiritual world we continue to grow spiritually for all of eternity. The caveat is that all advancement will be by the mercy of God and the prayers of others, not by virtue of our own free will, and that is why it is vitally important to make use of this earthly life in order to acquire the spiritual qualities we will need in the spiritual world while we still have the chance. That is why there are so many injunctions in scriptures to live our lives according to what Jesus taught. If we do that, we cannot go wrong.

1. In the Bible there are actually different beliefs about what happens when we die...

2. To my understanding we can't grow spiritually without using free will and cooperating with grace.

3. Your belief is unfair to dead babies who have no chance to use this earthly life.

 

[Trailblazer]

1. In the Bible there are actually different beliefs about what happens when we die...

If there are different beliefs about what happens when we die in the Bible, how can we know which beliefs are true. Logically speaking, a belief is either true or false.

2. To my understanding we can't grow spiritually without using free will and cooperating with grace.

According to my beliefs, we need to use our free will cooperating with grace in this earthly life, but where in the Bible does it say that we will have "free will cooperating with grace" after we die? I do not know exactly how we will progress spiritually, but I do not believe we will have the same opportunities to choose as we do in this earthly life. It would make no sense for Jesus and Baha'u'llah to tell us to seize these opportunities in this life if we had the same opportunities after we die. I believe that the spiritual qualities that we acquire in this life are what will enable us to advance in the afterlife. However, there is much more to it than that, as the afterlife is a mystery.

3. Your belief is unfair to dead babies who have no chance to use this earthly life.

I believe that God has made provisions for those who do not have any opportunities to progress in this life.

THE IMMORTALITY OF CHILDREN

Question.—What is the condition of children who die before attaining the age of discretion or before the appointed time of birth?
Answer.—These infants are under the shadow of the favor of God; and as they have not committed any sin and are not soiled with the impurities of the world of nature, they are the centers of the manifestation of bounty, and the Eye of Compassion will be turned upon them. Some Answered Questions, p. 240​

Let me ask you some questions:

1. Do you believe in reincarnation, and if so where is that belief to be found in the Bible?
2. Why would we need to come back to this earthly world to make spiritual progress? Can you imagine being able to progress in the many worlds of God that we go to after leaving this world?
3. Do you consider it "just" for a God to give us the same opportunities all over again, when we have already been given those opportunities?
4. Would you want to come back to this world and do it all over again? I could never believe that a "loving" God" would inflict that kind of punishment upon anyone. This world is a dark and narrow place compared to the spiritual world. I often wonder why a loving God would require us to endure it for one lifetime, but since I know the reason I am able to still believe.

 

[Unity of Mankind]

Religions are based upon individual MEN who make up their own "god" constructs to deceive people into looking to THEM/MEN for spiritual answers, rather than looking directly to God. But they have NO true spiritual answers to give, so always have bombastic gobbledygook to make it look like something clever is being said, when it's just meaningless bombastic gobbledygook.

Religions are not based upon individual men but rather what God reveals through His Messengers. They are necessary Mediators between two extremes; God and finite man. Many if not all personally sacrificed and suffered in the path of God to deliver God's Revelation which I think is clear evidence that refutes your opinion of them. Various cultures and civilizations even developed as a result of their contributions to humankind. As Jesus put it By their fruits ye shall know them and all of them reaped a healthy harvest!

God communicates DIRECTLY to all those souls/people who have spiritually evolved to the required level. ALL "messengers"/"founders" of religions are false "messengers".

Where is your proof God communicates directly to anyone whom you claim has spiritually evolved to the required level? On the other hand God-sent Messengers have historically proven the truthfulness of what they revealed because it always resulted in the betterment of all mankind.

It's common with ALL man made religions to have this form of exclusiveness, that THEIR religion is the ONLY "right" one, and all others are "false". A clear sign that everything in it are man made falsehoods.

Baha'u'llah, Founder of the Baha'i Faith, proclaims the exact opposite of what you claim, namely that all religions are "right" as they all constitute living examples of the principle of progressive revelations from God especially fitted for human needs as humankind evolves spiritually.