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Satan controls world from the top

74x12

Well-Known Member
If there is so much disinformation and one cannot tell facts from fiction, then how can anything we learn be trusted?
You have to become knowledgeable and informed. Not mindless consumers of mainstream narratives. If you believe in God then pray for the truth and trust God will guide you. If you don't have faith in God; then do the best you can.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
No, but they surely seem to believe so. Anyway there is much more evidence. This is nothing actually ...
Believing that Satan is some sort of actual entity does not make Satan actual.

Satan is a metaphor for human evil. The idea that he is some sort of global CEO in control of humanity is ridiculous.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
You have to become knowledgeable and informed. Not mindless consumers of mainstream narratives. If you believe in God then pray for the truth and trust God will guide you. If you don't have faith in God; then do the best you can.
I am knowledgeable and informed. Otherwise, I would swallow this garbage without any thought.

How do you know that I have not received the truth?
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
No, but they surely seem to believe so. Anyway there is much more evidence. This is nothing actually ...
Everything you could possible present will be evidence of something a person has done, with no evidence of any supernatural connection, being, device, spirit, etc., doing anything or even being necessary.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
You have to become knowledgeable and informed. Not mindless consumers of mainstream narratives. If you believe in God then pray for the truth and trust God will guide you. If you don't have faith in God; then do the best you can.
If a person were fooled into believing they received answers to prayers when they did not, how would they know? How would you know? How would anyone know?

What is preventing Satan for pretending he is God and responding to them?

I cannot say that you are not correct, but you have no way to demonstrate that you are. However, I can view lots of evidence and use simple reasoning to dismiss your claims.

If you are correct, then I can trust nothing. Not even you. If you are incorrect, nothing changes for me.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
I am knowledgeable and informed. Otherwise, I would swallow this garbage without any thought.

How do you know that I have not received the truth?
Which truth? What do you mean you received the truth? Are you claiming to have all truth?
Believing that Satan is some sort of actual entity does not make Satan actual.

Satan is a metaphor for human evil. The idea that he is some sort of global CEO in control of humanity is ridiculous.
There is more and more evidence that spirits are real. You can believe what you like; but I know better by personal experience and research.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
Which truth? What do you mean you received the truth? Are you claiming to have all truth?

There is more and more evidence that spirits are real. You can believe what you like; but I know better by personal experience and research.
I asked you a question. I made no claims. I see by your twist that you have no answer to my question that you like.

There is no evidence that spirits are real.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
I asked you a question. I made no claims. I see by your twist that you have no answer to my question that you like.

There is no evidence that spirits are real.
How can I answer a question when I don't know what you mean? So I ask again: what do you mean you received the truth?
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
Which truth? What do you mean you received the truth? Are you claiming to have all truth?

There is more and more evidence that spirits are real. You can believe what you like; but I know better by personal experience and research.
The correct answer would have been that 'you have no idea whether I have received truth or not'. If I did, you cannot say and if I did not, you still cannot say.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
How can I answer a question when I don't know what you mean? So I ask again: what do you mean you received the truth?
You brought up the truth. Do you not understand what you were saying? You will have to examine your own claims about praying for the truth. You said it.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
If a person were fooled into believing they received answers to prayers when they did not, how would they know? How would you know? How would anyone know?

What is preventing Satan for pretending he is God and responding to them?

I cannot say that you are not correct, but you have no way to demonstrate that you are. However, I can view lots of evidence and use simple reasoning to dismiss your claims.

If you are correct, then I can trust nothing. Not even you. If you are incorrect, nothing changes for me.
Well thought out. Okay, nothing is preventing Satan from pretending to be God or whatever he wants and he (along with his messengers) do it all the time. You compare what he claims with the truth you know and you'll see if he is a liar. And eventually he will lie because that's his whole purpose. He deceives even though he might tell the truth he will eventually lie.

As for being fooled ... yes it happens. But you keep learning and you correct your errors and God can show people the truth.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
How can I answer a question when I don't know what you mean? So I ask again: what do you mean you received the truth?
I will repeat myself. The question is not about a particular truth, but about your ability to know if someone has received it or not.

How do you know that I have not received the truth?

It is a pretty simple question for you to answer.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
Well thought out. Okay, nothing is preventing Satan from pretending to be God or whatever he wants and he (along with his messengers) do it all the time. You compare what he claims with the truth you know and you'll see if he is a liar. And eventually he will lie because that's his whole purpose. He deceives even though he might tell the truth he will eventually lie.

As for being fooled ... yes it happens. But you keep learning and you correct your errors and God can show people the truth.
This is the circle you propose that leads anyone accepting it into a never ending trap where nothing can be trusted. How do you know, that what you know is not the product of Satan? If you can tell the product of Satan, then he cannot use it to control you or others.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
Well thought out. Okay, nothing is preventing Satan from pretending to be God or whatever he wants and he (along with his messengers) do it all the time. You compare what he claims with the truth you know and you'll see if he is a liar. And eventually he will lie because that's his whole purpose. He deceives even though he might tell the truth he will eventually lie.

As for being fooled ... yes it happens. But you keep learning and you correct your errors and God can show people the truth.
Let me make this simple. If you have some baseline information and Satan lies to you, how has your baseline information been validated as some sort of truth? How do you know that you are not part of some long con and that baseline information was bogus to begin with?

If I present evidence of giraffes to 100 people that have never seen giraffes, they can validate what I have shown them by going to a zoo. By seeking my sources of information and reviewing for themselves. By doing their own research. By going to Africa.

If you tell me Satan is real and claim personal experiences you have no evidence supporting, there is nothing for me to review. Based on my own personal experience, I can either accept your claims or reject them without further effort. I cannot go the "This is My Life: Satan" expo to see evidence of Satan. Any evidence you present will always be the actions of man with no evidence of any other entity involved.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Let me make this simple. If you have some baseline information and Satan lies to you, how has your baseline information been validated as some sort of truth? How do you know that you are not part of some long con and that baseline information was bogus to begin with?
We put people in prison or to death according to testimony witnesses of people and by "evidence". One witness by themselves is not usually considered enough. One piece of evidence usually is not incriminating. But once you have enough evidence and/or witnesses put together; then you make your case. And that's how we convict or absolve people of serious crimes. They then will be put in prison or released. So we take this very seriously. That's our modern court system. That's how you figure out what is going on in spite of the disinformation in the world.

If you tell me Satan is real and claim personal experiences you have no evidence supporting, there is nothing for me to review. Based on my own personal experience, I can either accept your claims or reject them without further effort. I cannot go the "This is My Life: Satan" expo to see evidence of Satan. Any evidence you present will always be the actions of man with no evidence of any other entity involved.
Correct. You do research and you make a case for or against the existence of satan. That's all you can do.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
Well thought out. Okay, nothing is preventing Satan from pretending to be God or whatever he wants and he (along with his messengers) do it all the time. You compare what he claims with the truth you know and you'll see if he is a liar. And eventually he will lie because that's his whole purpose. He deceives even though he might tell the truth he will eventually lie.

As for being fooled ... yes it happens. But you keep learning and you correct your errors and God can show people the truth.
Thanks. I have thought about this particular subject a lot. I have no evidence that Satan is not a real entity, but I have no reason to think that he is. The only evidence I have for evil and sinning is human evidence. As a metaphor, Satan is fine, but a being that has defied God and been punished by winning dominance of the Earth makes little sense.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
This is the circle you propose that leads anyone accepting it into a never ending trap where nothing can be trusted. How do you know, that what you know is not the product of Satan? If you can tell the product of Satan, then he cannot use it to control you or others.
You have to ground yourself on what you know is true. You have to be settled on some things and then build on it from there. Otherwise you'll always wonder and never actually accomplish anything.
The correct answer would have been that 'you have no idea whether I have received truth or not'. If I did, you cannot say and if I did not, you still cannot say.
I can compare what you claim is true to what I know for myself is true and then I can decide if I believe you or not. If your truth builds on my truth and is acceptable and not contradictory; then I can learn from it. Sometimes people can even be partially correct. In which case you learn what you can from them.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
We put people in prison or to death according to testimony witnesses of people and by "evidence". One witness by themselves is not usually considered enough. One piece of evidence usually is not incriminating. But once you have enough evidence and/or witnesses put together; then you make your case. And that's how we convict or absolve people of serious crimes. They then will be put in prison or released. So we take this very seriously. That's our modern court system. That's how you figure out what is going on in spite of the disinformation in the world.
I witness testimony is some of the worst evidence there is. Witnesses have their own agendas. Even well meaning witnesses can end up reporting distorted views of what they saw. Groups of witnesses often see the same thing and reports of what they saw vary widely. People are very suggestible and some are more suggestible than others. We see what we want to see and what we saw can grow and change with time.

Correct. You do research and you make a case for or against the existence of satan. That's all you can do.
The only thing my research shows me is that people commit bad acts. There is no evidence of any supernatural intermediary facilitating those acts. There is nothing else to report.

Popular opinion is not evidence supporting the existence of something.
 
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Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
You have to ground yourself on what you know is true. You have to be settled on some things and then build on it from there. Otherwise you'll always wonder and never actually accomplish anything.
But what can you accomplish when supposed truth is grounded in unsupported claims?
I can compare what you claim is true to what I know for myself is true and then I can decide if I believe you or not. If your truth builds on my truth and is acceptable and not contradictory; then I can learn from it. Sometimes people can even be partially correct. In which case you learn what you can from them.
I cannot even know for certain if you know Satan exists. Believing he exists does not make him exist. Your personal experience is not something anyone else can access. Your belief is presented by the evidence here.
 

Dan From Smithville

Monsters! Monsters from the id! Forbidden Planet
Staff member
Premium Member
Well thought out. Okay, nothing is preventing Satan from pretending to be God or whatever he wants and he (along with his messengers) do it all the time. You compare what he claims with the truth you know and you'll see if he is a liar. And eventually he will lie because that's his whole purpose. He deceives even though he might tell the truth he will eventually lie.

As for being fooled ... yes it happens. But you keep learning and you correct your errors and God can show people the truth.
At best you can claim to believe Satan is an actual entity that is at large and actively in control of mankind.

But if that is true, then nothing coming from man can be trusted. If you have a direct link to God and are provided with revealed truth to dispense, the rest of us cannot trust it, since it could be Satan you are talking to.

If Satan is a metaphor for human evil--the only evil we have evidence for--then we can focus on correcting the behavior of people where necessary and focus on actual problems.

It always seems like passing the buck and looking for an excuse to start granting Satan a life and overarching authority of our lives.
 
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