How do Christians view Judaism?

[Cooky]

Not sure if this is in the right section...
Anyway, through various discussions and, at times, heated debates online with Christians on different sites these last couple of years, I've come under the impression that at least some Christians view Judaism as "Christianity minus Jesus". Certainly, I'm pretty sure this is a mindset that groups like the Hebrew Christians and Messianic Judaism have used to preach to and convert Jews.

Is this really how Christians view Judaism?

Note: This isn't about what role Christians think Jews serve in the world, but about the religion itself.

Personally, I like Judaism, and Jews. I don't know why. I just do.

...I think there's a kind of supernatural connection.

 

[pearl]

Therefore I see any Judaism that rejects Christ as an enemy to Christ, and God, just as the Judaism in Christ's day nailed Him to the Cross.

This is so absolutely wrong!

 

[shmogie]

This is quite an involved question. I don't think any answer can be made that doesn't account for Jews individually also. And different camps of Christianity have different views of the Jews and Judaism.

My view will be based on these things. 1.) That the Old Testament and New Testament are the Word of God. 2.) That the Jews are the chosen nation and people of God through whom God will manifest His Kingdom on earth. 3.) That the religion of the Jews is given by God in the Old Testament. 4.) That the Jews had a propensity to always rebel against God. 5.) That when in rebellion against God, the true religion of the Jews became odious to God. 5.) That Judaism's rejection of the Messiah to Israel was done during a time when she was bearing the fruit of her rebelliousness to God. 6.) That, due to her rebelliousness and rejection of her Messiah, blindness has been given by God to Israel as to Who Jesus Christ is. 7.) That Judaism today will reflect that blindness in its rejection of Christ. 8.) That during this time of Israel's blindness, Christ is building His Church, who identify with Him in His rejection by the Jews and the world.

Therefore I see any Judaism that rejects Christ as an enemy to Christ, and God, just as the Judaism in Christ's day nailed Him to the Cross.

But, because Israel and the Church are both legitimate bodies of believers of God, there is always a strained 'love'. Just as Christ has a love for His people Israel. See. (Matt. 23:37) As does God. Read the whole book of (Hosea). As did Paul. (Rom. 9-11). Yet at the same time God did not refrain from saying and doing harsh things against Israel. And Jesus Christ did not refrain either. See (Matt. 25). And Paul was constantly at war with the Judaizers.

Good-Ole-Rebel

I accept most of this, however I do not believe those of the Jewish faith are enemies of Christ, rather, they are Gods people who refuse to accept the totality of their faith as given by God.You can say that their own choices keep them from advancing into the upper grades, they keep themselves held back in the lower grade.

This will change though. They will finally assume the role they were chosen for, preaching the love of their Messiah and God for all mankind, and his way of salvation when the world is in complete chaos and needs that message most,

 

[Eddi]

What about Biblical figures such as Balaam, Avimelech king of Grar, Job (maybe some others that I can't recall at the moment)?

I dunno, what about them?

Which is?

Something to do with non-Jewish people being able to have a meaningful relationship with the Abrahamic God???

 

[Estro Felino]

Is this necessarily a contradiction of what I wrote in my OP? I didn't say that the view I assumed was held was positive or negative.

I just wanted to say I like Judaism...and I focus on the common values Jews and Christians share.

 

[lukethethird]

I'm guessing that a lot of Christians view Judaism through a gospel lens.

 

[Harel13]

I dunno, what about them?

They're non-Jews that spoke to God...

Something to do with non-Jewish people being able to have a meaningful relationship with the Abrahamic God???

So would you describe Christianity as a kind of cork-unstopper that freed the world from the situation it was in where, according to you, only Jews could communicate with God, and brought the world to a new reality where everyone could communicate with God, regardless of religion, in which case, any God-adhering religion goes, or would you say that Christianity is more of a replacement of Judaism in which it allows all people to communicate with God but only through Christianity?

 

[Harel13]

I'm guessing that a lot of Christians view Judaism through a gospel lens.

Which means?

 

[Eddi]

They're non-Jews that spoke to God...

OK, I thought that was what you were getting at but wasn't quite sure. Then in that case I mean to say that in my beliefs, before the coming of Christ God interacted with humans primarily via the Jewish people, not exclusively (I stand corrected...)

So would you describe Christianity as a kind of cork-unstopper that freed the world from the situation it was in where, according to you, only Jews could communicate with God, and brought the world to a new reality where everyone could communicate with God, regardless of religion, in which case, any God-adhering religion goes, or would you say that Christianity is more of a replacement of Judaism in which it allows all people to communicate with God but only through Christianity?

I think something like that...

But I don't think Christianity is a "replacement" for Judaism, not at all - now, as I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Judaism isn't an open, universal religion like say, Christianity or Islam - rather it is restricted to the Jewish people??? Although I am aware that it is possible for people to convert to Judaism my impression that this is difficult and requires a lot of study? Basically: I see Judaism as the means by which the Jewish people relate to God and Christianity as one means by which non-Jewish people can relate to God, which therefore makes it a universal religion. Please, correct me if I am mistaken in this

Basically, I see Christianity as God taking an interest in his non-Jewish children and involving himself in their affairs more than he did before the coming of Christ

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Not sure if this is in the right section...
Anyway, through various discussions and, at times, heated debates online with Christians on different sites these last couple of years, I've come under the impression that at least some Christians view Judaism as "Christianity minus Jesus". Certainly, I'm pretty sure this is a mindset that groups like the Hebrew Christians and Messianic Judaism have used to preach to and convert Jews.

Is this really how Christians view Judaism?

Note: This isn't about what role Christians think Jews serve in the world, but about the religion itself.

Christians believe that in order to be a Christian, you have to believe in Jesus. But, since Christians believe that Jesus is God, then Jews are Christians by default. Since they believe in God, and Christians believe that Jesus and God are the same being, then this makes all Jews Christians by the Christian definition of Jesus.

 

[Harel13]

But I don't think Christianity is a "replacement" for Judaism, not at all - now, as I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Judaism isn't an open, universal religion like say, Christianity or Islam - rather it is restricted to the Jewish people??? Although I am aware that it is possible for people to convert to Judaism my impression that this is difficult and requires a lot of study? Basically: I see Judaism as the means by which the Jewish people relate to God and Christianity as one means by which non-Jewish people can relate to God, which therefore makes it a universal religion. Please, correct me if I am mistaken in this

Judaism isn't universal, yes. It's not necessary to convert to be able to worship God and receive reward for that. It's more an issue of different people having different roles in the world.

 

[Harel13]

Jews are Christians by default

I'm lost. Jews don't believe Jesus is god. To be a Christian you need to believe Jesus is god or at least the son of god or the messiah. Jews don't believe any of this. How then are Jews actually Christians?

 

[RabbiO]

@Harel13 -

By now I would hope you realize that there is no one size fits all viewpoint that describes how all Christians view Judaism. It would be true going in the opposite direction. There is no one viewpoint that describes how all Jews view Christianity. Heck, there is no one view that describes how all Christians view Christianity nor one view that describes how all Jews view Judaism.

It is also true that too many Jews and too many Christians have the merest of surface understanding of the other's religion. At least some Christians' understanding of Judaism, for example, is limited to how it is portrayed by the writers of Christian scripture.

 

[Terry Sampson]

But I don't think Christianity is a "replacement" for Judaism, not at all - now, as I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Judaism isn't an open, universal religion like say, Christianity or Islam - rather it is restricted to the Jewish people??? Although I am aware that it is possible for people to convert to Judaism my impression that this is difficult and requires a lot of study? Basically: I see Judaism as the means by which the Jewish people relate to God and Christianity as one means by which non-Jewish people can relate to God, which therefore makes it a universal religion. Please, correct me if I am mistaken in this

Basically, I see Christianity as God taking an interest in his non-Jewish children and involving himself in their affairs more than he did before the coming of Christ

I agree and am happy to know that I'm not the only believer in Dual-Covenant theology.

 

[pearl]

Salvation is from the Jews. Without Judaism we would not know Jesus, without Hebrew Scripture we would not know Jesus. Without Israel there would be no Church.

 

[Harel13]

@Harel13 -

By now I would hope you realize that there is no one size fits all viewpoint that describes how all Christians view Judaism. It would be true going in the opposite direction. There is no one viewpoint that describes how all Jews view Christianity. Heck, there is no one view that describes how all Christians view Christianity nor one view that describes how all Jews view Judaism.

It is also true that too many Jews and too many Christians have the merest of surface understanding of the other's religion. At least some Christians' understanding of Judaism, for example, is limited to how it is portrayed by the writers of Christian scripture.

I was aware of this before, @RabbiO, but I was wondering if anyone held the view that I described in my OP or if there were more popular views.

 

[Harel13]

Salvation is from the Jews. Without Judaism we would not know Jesus, without Hebrew Scripture we would not know Jesus. Without Israel there would be no Church.

That's in terms of the past. What about the present?

 

[Terry Sampson]

Salvation is from the Jews. Without Judaism we would not know Jesus, without Hebrew Scripture we would not know Jesus. Without Israel there would be no Church.

Would that all Christians realized and believed it. Unfortunately, not all do. AND, unfortbunately, today there are a good number of Christians who believe that Christianity replaces Judaism and the Church replaces the Synagogue. Neither are true. And, I say, until Christians and the Church get their doctrines in order, Jews are--as a rough general rule--going to be annoyed with us, the same way I get discomforted when folks come along and claim that they and I have something in common when closer inspection reveals that we don't.

In spite of others' disagreement with these claims, I'm sticking with them.

• Judaism and Islam share the same God-concept but not the same God.
• Judaism and Christianity share the same God but not the same God-concept.
• Christianity and Islam share neither the same God nor the same God-concept.
• And, no, atheists don't get a vote.

 

[pearl]

That's in terms of the past. What about the present?

What's changed? Jesus died a Jew, the God of Israel raise him out of death as a Jew. Do you think Jesus converted?

 

[Harel13]

What's changed? Jesus died a Jew, the God of Israel raise him out of death as a Jew. Do you think Jesus converted?

But the church isn't a Jewish concept. At some point, Christianity split off from Judaism.