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Can God lie?
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
obviously father isn't the name. then what is it.
it doesn't claim he will come. it says the son of man coming into his kingdom. that would be the person having the revelation coming into his/her kingdom.
matthew 16:28
luke 9:1
luke 9:27
that kingdom is understood as the dwelling place of christ. it is christ who comes to the awakening dreamer.
luke 17:21
much of what you are attempting to understand is metaphorical and not literal
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It says that God has us engraved on the palms of His hands. That is like a young Jew wearing tefillin so that he'll remember the commandments. God is taking a commandment upon Himself to remember us. If God gave us the commandment to not lie, why would He turn around and lie to us?
Skwim
Veteran Member
Does god lie? For the Bible tells me so.
Jeremiah certainly thought so
Then I said, “Alas, Master God! You’ve fed lies to this people, this Jerusalem. You assured them, ‘All is well, don’t worry,’ at the very moment when the sword was at their throats.”
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, You have lied to me and I was fooled. You are stronger than I, and have had power over me. I have been laughed at all day. Everyone makes fun of me.
And
And when the prophet shall err, and speak a word: I the Lord have deceived that prophet: and I will stretch forth my hand upon him, and will cut him off from the midst of my people Israel.
God also lied to Abraham about needing Isaac as a sacrifice. God knows this isn't true because as an omniscient being he knows that Abraham will be willing to go ahead with the sacrifice, and that the sacrifice won't be needed.
23 “So that is what has happened here. The Lord made your prophets lie to you. The Lord himself decided to bring this disaster to you.”
And, if one considers Jesus to be an aspect of god, he too lies, about his Second Coming:
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom..
Jeremiah certainly thought so
Jeremiah 4:10Then I said, “Alas, Master God! You’ve fed lies to this people, this Jerusalem. You assured them, ‘All is well, don’t worry,’ at the very moment when the sword was at their throats.”
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, You have lied to me and I was fooled. You are stronger than I, and have had power over me. I have been laughed at all day. Everyone makes fun of me.
And
Ezekiel 14:9And when the prophet shall err, and speak a word: I the Lord have deceived that prophet: and I will stretch forth my hand upon him, and will cut him off from the midst of my people Israel.
God also lied to Abraham about needing Isaac as a sacrifice. God knows this isn't true because as an omniscient being he knows that Abraham will be willing to go ahead with the sacrifice, and that the sacrifice won't be needed.
Genesis 22
2 Then God said, “Take your son to the land of Moriah and kill your son there as a sacrifice for me. This must be Isaac, your only son, the one you love. Use him as a burnt offering on one of the mountains there. I will tell you which mountain.”
8 . . . So both Abraham and his son went together to that place. 9 When they came to the place where God told them to go, Abraham built an altar. He carefully laid the wood on the altar. Then he tied up his son Isaac and laid him on the altar on top of the wood. 10 Then Abraham reached for his knife to kill his son. So both Abraham and his son went together to that place. 9 When they came to the place where God told them to go, Abraham built an altar. He carefully laid the wood on the altar. Then he tied up his son Isaac and laid him on the altar on top of the wood. 10 Then Abraham reached for his knife to kill his son.
12 The Lord said, “Do not reach out [with the knife in] your hand against the boy, and do nothing to [harm] him; for now I know that you fear God [with reverence and profound respect], since you have not withheld from Me your son, your only son [of promise].”
And god will even lie by proxy2 Then God said, “Take your son to the land of Moriah and kill your son there as a sacrifice for me. This must be Isaac, your only son, the one you love. Use him as a burnt offering on one of the mountains there. I will tell you which mountain.”
8 . . . So both Abraham and his son went together to that place. 9 When they came to the place where God told them to go, Abraham built an altar. He carefully laid the wood on the altar. Then he tied up his son Isaac and laid him on the altar on top of the wood. 10 Then Abraham reached for his knife to kill his son. So both Abraham and his son went together to that place. 9 When they came to the place where God told them to go, Abraham built an altar. He carefully laid the wood on the altar. Then he tied up his son Isaac and laid him on the altar on top of the wood. 10 Then Abraham reached for his knife to kill his son.
12 The Lord said, “Do not reach out [with the knife in] your hand against the boy, and do nothing to [harm] him; for now I know that you fear God [with reverence and profound respect], since you have not withheld from Me your son, your only son [of promise].”
1 Kings 22:2323 “So that is what has happened here. The Lord made your prophets lie to you. The Lord himself decided to bring this disaster to you.”
Matthew 16: 28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
The person is enlightened and embraces God and truth.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Yeah...I just fight with God a lot and can be disrespectful but I love himWho is God?
Who says God can't lie?
Have you ever really met God?
Have you ever met someone who really met God?
Has anyone ever told you "God told me, that He can't lie"?
Has God ever told you "I can't lie"?
Who saw God's mouth move and words came out?
Maybe God can't even Speak, maybe God is not like human
Maybe in the realm of God, there is pure silence, or just mental communication
But to answer your question "Yes, God can lie". I can easily prove this. Just needs a bit of creativity.
You can also prove it easily IMO, as you are one of the most creative posters on RF, I have noticed.
You just need to think outside the box. Most stay inside the box; some even with Tarantulas in it
Love, Peace and Blessings to you, my brother
Namaste
My tarantula molted and grew strong enough to push the lid off and escape twice btw
Anyhow, always good to see your posts
SaintUriah
Member
The Lord says that if a Humans becomes corrupt they will corrupt the planet
I think He could, but don’t want, because it is not good. And as Bible tells, righteous one hates lies:
A righteous man hates lies…
Pro. 13:5
And according to the story he returned after 3 days from the death. But I think what you say, is not what the Bible tells. That is why, please show the scripture?
If we are accurate, it says, don’t murder. Murder is unlawful killing, which is not accepted. God doesn’t murder anyone. And because He has given life, He has also right to decide how long it lasts. Therefore, there is no good argument to complain, if God gives eternal life only for righteous.
Interesting if you don’t see it. Those people who don’t accept it, will be rare. Already it seems people are ready to accept anything, as long as they have pleasures. People don’t require much and are willing to vote for communists, fascists, Clintons…. So, I think the “beast” will have quite easy way.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
Ah. Very nice. Sounds good to me.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
It seems God can handle it. God knows exactly who we are, and what we went through. So He understands, hence does not judge (Sai Baba said)
Aha. So your tarantula "stepped outside the box". Good for him.
Anyhow, always good to see your posts
. Yes. Seeing you is good to me too.
74x12
Well-Known Member
No.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Logically a command can't be a lie. If I tell you "Go sacrifice your son" that's not a lie nor can it logically be a lie. So you're incorrect even though He obviously knew He would countermand His original command.
So Jeremiah complains God deceived Him and you think it's true? Jeremiah was in a bad way but not correct.
God did feed them lies but you want to know how? By allowing false prophets to speak. Because God knew they would listen to the liars rather than the true prophets. So that was basically poetic justice.
Yes, God deceives that prophet by allowing evil lying spirits to enter their mouth and speak a false word. That's all. God doesn't ever lie. That's the justice of God because those prophets are actually sinners and serve false idols. So God let's them be deceived by Satan.
1 Kings 22:19-22
19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
20 And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
There were multiple lies by God according to the scripture.
God lied to Abraham in regards to sacrificing his son. Genesis 22
In Genesis 18 God lied that Sarah openly said she was too old to give birth to a son when actually she just thought it privately when overhearing the conversation between the angels and Abraham.
God told Moses to lie to the pharaoh. Exodus 8:27 Exodus 3:18
Just for starters
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
Jesus said , "ask anything of the father in my name and it will be done for you". What does that mean?
It means exactly what it says(!), but be careful to be aware He said this in a whole passage that has a stringent condition. It's conditional. It's not for just all, but only for those meeting the condition He said.
It's not something like you-don't-need-a-lot-of-what-I-say -- not that. Not other stuff either like you'd hear in many churches. Nope. Only instead exactly what He said in full.
The best way to understand that is to read that full passage with a true listening -- which is the opposite of thinking you already know all he is saying. In a real listening, we fall silent, and He is the only one talking, and we listen with all we have.
Here, the passage is practically all of chapter 14, and all of chapter 15 through verse 17. All. Not most, or some, or a couple of things. But really all together, entirely. That's how it feels to me.
All of chapter 14 plus all of chapter 15 through at least verse 17, in full:
John 14 NIV
With true, total listening, to hear.
74x12
Well-Known Member
No, if you read it; it says Sarah said within herself. So she did say it.
No. God knew Pharaoh would not accept. Therefore God had no need to lie. He played Pharaoh for a fool; but didn't lie.
Incorrect. A command can't be a lie.
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
Here's a valuable thing to consider on the other truly big question you raised here:
If God exists, then there is no such thing as 'death' the way we normally think of it.
It's an illusion.
It's merely like only a doorway.
Or as Christ said -- "sleep".
Matthew 9:24 "Go away," He told them. "The girl is not dead, but asleep." And they laughed at Him.
in other words, none of them are dead. at worst they are temporarily asleep, if they've not already been awakened
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Thanks! I literally laughed out loud for some reason.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
God told Abraham what Sarah Said. He didn't tell Abraham what Sarah thought. That's what makes it a lie.
God lied by saying to tell pharaoh it was only for 3 days when it wasn't.
And lastly a command certainly can be a lie by falsely saying his son Isaac was the sacrifice.
Skwim
Veteran Member
You're right, a command isn't a lie, but the reason for it can be. In this case god's lie was that he NEEDED Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac when god knew he had no such need.
Well, it's in the Bible isn't t? .
Jeremiah 4:10
Then I said, “Alas, Master God! You’ve fed lies to this people, this Jerusalem. You assured them, ‘All is well, don’t worry,’ at the very moment when the sword was at their throats.”
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, You have lied to me and I was fooled. You are stronger than I, and have had power over me. I have been laughed at all day. Everyone makes fun of me.
Then I said, “Alas, Master God! You’ve fed lies to this people, this Jerusalem. You assured them, ‘All is well, don’t worry,’ at the very moment when the sword was at their throats.”
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, You have lied to me and I was fooled. You are stronger than I, and have had power over me. I have been laughed at all day. Everyone makes fun of me.
Jeremiah thought god lied, which is why I said at the VERY TOP of the two entries "Jeremiah certainly thought so," and obviously he had good reason to do so.
Doesn't matter how. The point isn't the how but the what, and the what is that god fed lies to the people. He out and out lied.
And it's nice to see you admit it.
Now, now, there's no making up stuff. There were no "evil" spirits involved. . And isn't it convenient that you left out verse 23
23 “So that is what has happened here. The Lord made your prophets lie to you. The Lord himself decided to bring this disaster to you.”
.
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