HaShem in Judaism - What are the essential qualities?

[Dawnofhope]

I was exploring with another member recently the different theological concepts when comparing Judaism and Islam. We compiled a preliminary list. I would be very interested to hear from adherents of Judaism or anyone with knowledge in this area to provide constructive feedback on the list. What do you see as the most important attributes of Hashem and why? Any thoughts about key similarities or differences with Islam? Remember this thread is for respectful discussion and not for debate.

HaShem

1. Unknowable
2. One
3. Transcendent
4. Omnipotent
5. Omniscient
6. Creator of all
7. Sustainer of all
8. Generous Giver
9. Self-Subsisting
10. Unchanging
11. Eternal
12. With whom we can have a personal relationship
13. Self-revealer through Prophets and Messengers
14. Covenants with Israel
15. God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
16. Law-Giver at Sinai

 

[stvdv]

What do you see as the most important attributes of Hashem and why?

I know nothing about Hashem.

But visited ca. 20 times a group who were singing Devotional Hebrew songs. I loved their songs and singing

And reading your 16 points made my heart also jump

For me, experiencing this joy, is enough to "know". Must be good, this "Hashem", that's all I can say.

 

[rosends]

What about "infinite"? One which is very important to me is "apparently to human understanding, paradoxical" because that shows the chasm between the limits of human understanding and the essence of God's nature. Any label we try to slap on only exists through our limited vocabulary and comprehension. We can't even begin to understand the extent to which we don't understand.

 

[dybmh]

I'm not quite sure how to say this idea succinctly. But I think it's important to add something to the list that incorporates the idea that HaShem says that nothing can be added or removed from the Torah.

I think something should be on the list that describes this.

Maybe...

"Moses' revelation was perfect"?

or "The Torah is Perfect"?

 

[Harel13]

"Moses' revelation was perfect"?

or "The Torah is Perfect"?

How about both? "Moshe v'torato emet" (Bava Batra 74a) - Moshe and his Torah are true/truth.

 

[dybmh]

How about both? "Moshe v'torato emet" (Bava Batra 74a) - Moshe and his Torah are true/truth.

I was thinking of Deut 4:2. So that's why I wasn't sure how to phrase it precisely.

Does Bava Batra point back to anything in Tanach?

 

[Harel13]

I was thinking of Deut 4:2. So that's why I wasn't sure how to phrase it precisely.

Does Bava Batra point back to anything in Tanach?

Not that specific part. It's a story of one of the emoraim going to see the place where Korach and his people were swallowed up. When he listens, he hears them saying "Moshe and his Torah are true/truth and they themselves make stuff up."

 

[dybmh]

Not that specific part. It's a story of one of the emoraim going to see the place where Korach and his people were swallowed up. When he listens, he hears them saying "Moshe and his Torah are true/truth and they themselves make stuff up."

Oooooooooooooooops. thud.

But seriously, for Adiran's list I think it probably needs to go back to Tanach. Are you good with something communicating what's said in Deut 4:2?

 

[Harel13]

I was exploring with another member recently the different theological concepts when comparing Judaism and Islam. We compiled a preliminary list. I would be very interested to hear from adherents of Judaism or anyone with knowledge in this area to provide constructive feedback on the list. What do you see as the most important attributes of Hashem and why? Any thoughts about key similarities or differences with Islam? Remember this thread is for respectful discussion and not for debate.

HaShem

1. Unknowable
2. One
3. Transcendent
4. Omnipotent
5. Omniscient
6. Creator of all
7. Sustainer of all
8. Generous Giver
9. Self-Subsisting
10. Unchanging
11. Eternal
12. With whom we can have a personal relationship
13. Self-revealer through Prophets and Messengers
14. Covenants with Israel
15. God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
16. Law-Giver at Sinai

Wait...why doesn't this list have "requires exclusive worship but endows us with free will" like in the Allah one?

 

[dybmh]

@Harel13 , what about gender and form? What's you're take on HaShem's gender? And form... I don't know... there's a couple different ways to approach it, I think?

 

[dybmh]

@adrian009 ,

Angels... HaShem operates thru agents and angels, not just prophets.

 

[Harel13]

@Harel13 , what about gender and form? What's you're take on HaShem's gender? And form... I don't know... there's a couple different ways to approach it, I think?

I'm going with what @rosends said - infinite. Above genders, above forms.

 

[dybmh]

And also, HaShem has many names each one is different in it's metaphorical implications.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I know nothing about Hashem.

But visited ca. 20 times a group who were singing Devotional Hebrew songs. I loved their songs and singing

And reading your 16 points made my heart also jump

For me, experiencing this joy, is enough to "know". Must be good, this "Hashem", that's all I can say.

Thank you. It is truly a joy be reflecting on the attributes and nature of Hashem.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What about "infinite"? One which is very important to me is "apparently to human understanding, paradoxical" because that shows the chasm between the limits of human understanding and the essence of God's nature. Any label we try to slap on only exists through our limited vocabulary and comprehension. We can't even begin to understand the extent to which we don't understand.

Thank you for your contribution. Its always excellent to have your contribution and insights in questions such as these.

You may note at the top of my list of attributes of Hashem are that He is Unknowable. What in your opinion would be a better word or phrase to describe the vast and unfathomable chasm between our meagre human comprehension and Hashem's All-Knowing and Wise attribute?

In regards infinite, I have included Eternal, Omniscient and Omnipotent. Does this not suffice?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I'm not quite sure how to say this idea succinctly. But I think it's important to add something to the list that incorporates the idea that HaShem says that nothing can be added or removed from the Torah.

I think something should be on the list that describes this.

Maybe...

"Moses' revelation was perfect"?

or "The Torah is Perfect"?

The Torah can be seen as being the first five Canonical books of the Hebrew Bible, Genesis, Leviticus, Numbers, Exodus and Deuteronomy. Sometimes its meaning can be extended to include the Tanakh. If we take Torah to mean the Pentateuch only were there no Prophets after Moses who works are included in the body of the Torah? I agree there is a strong warning against false Prophets but then we are getting into specifics about what Hashem taught rather than His essential attributes. What do you think?

I agree the phrase Law-Giver at Sinai does not encompass the Perfection of Hashem's Revelation through Moses. Then there is the issue beyond that as to whether the Torah has been under Hashem's Protection and not altered or corrupted. I personally believe both apply. If I were to say Hashem's Perfection was made Manifest (Revealed) through His Prophet Moses and His Revelation Protected, would that suffice?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Wait...why doesn't this list have "requires exclusive worship but endows us with free will" like in the Allah one?

It is undeniable that Hashem requires exclusive worship and endows free will. Thank you.

 

[Dawnofhope]

@Harel13 , what about gender and form? What's you're take on HaShem's gender? And form... I don't know... there's a couple different ways to approach it, I think?

Excellent. Hashem transcends any human conception of gender and form. Although Hashem's Revelation of Himself through Moses and Prophets uses anthropomorphic language this is purely allegorical to assist our understanding but under no circumstances should Hashem be though of as an actual man or have form like a man. Thank you.

 

[Dawnofhope]

@adrian009 ,

Angels... HaShem operates thru agents and angels, not just prophets.

That is true. I had thought Messengers but this is more the language of Islam and has overlap with Prophet.

 

[Dawnofhope]

And also, HaShem has many names each one is different in it's metaphorical implications.

That is true. I know Islam has a list of 99 attributes of Allah derived from the Qu'ran.

99 Names of Allah (Al Asma Ul Husna) - with Meaning and Explanation

Are you or anyone else aware of an equivalent list based on the Torah?