How to protect religious freedom and conscience rights

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I do not like the idea of forcing one's conscience upon others who do not share such conscience. However the root foundation of the law is to protect the rights of all citizens, and people's regardless of differences in conscience so long as that conscience does not run contrary to maintaining civil peace and well being for all.

Live and let live! Is the spirit I defend here.

When we say that public accommodation should take a back seat to the desire of anti-LGBTQ bigots to operate their businesses in line with their bigotry, LGBTQ people don't have the right to simply carry on their lives.

This is not "live and let live."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Live and let live! Is the spirit I defend here.

Live and let live is not giving a damn about it if you disagree with something but don't let it get in the way. Those who want to discriminate are not of the live and let live mentality, and unfortunately we have to use the law, as we have in the past, to make if so people can at least pretend live and let live is the default of society.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Other than having a near-unenforceble law that is also a "cobra law" as cited, we now have "%@$%%#% you, you piece of @$@#$@#$#, serve me dinner at this table! Make me a @#$@#$ wedding cake right now, you intolerant @#@$$ religionist (or liberal or atheist or anything else you want to add)." Business owners reserve the right to reject business from certain clientele.

Uh huh. Because refusing to serve somebody because of their race/religion/sexuality/gender is totally the same as refusing to serve someone because they are rude and aggressive.

Totally the same.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Since the choice is either that or denying someone their human rights, I have to side with human rights.

BTW: which laws are you talking about? AFAIK, American law has prohibited discrimination on the basis of sex in matters of public accommodation since 1964. Have any of the cake shops in these suits been around that long?

Nonsense again. Gay weddings were ILLEGAL in 1964 so cake shop owners in the 1960s could confidently buy cake equipment then without the worry, right?

 

[1213]

Is that why they are so afraid of the gays getting married bringing about god's wraith?

Knowing that something that is not nice will come and trying to avoid it, doesn’t necessary mean on is ruled by fear. Like for example, I know I would burn my hand, if I would put it on fire. I wouldn’t like that, so I try to avoid it. But it doesn’t mean I am ruled by fear, I just want to avoid unpleasant thing.

 

[BilliardsBall]

When people wanted to keep good Christian white folk separate from black people, it was ruled religion will take a back seat to civil equality.

Thanks for showing us the lengths Christians will go to in order to play the victimhood card, and scream the world is out to get them, JUST BECAUSE they are being told they are equal under the law, the must follow the law like everyone else, and they don't get to have special privileges.

Do you think every racist was a religionist? Give me a break. There were plenty of atheist racists then, but there are few of you so they didn't show up in all the polls.

The world IS out to get Christians. For example, none of us troll on atheist websites.

 

[BilliardsBall]

It wasn't actually an analogy, and you missed the point.

Can you name any other case where a business just gets exempted from a law because compliance is too expensive?


So you do agree that these bakers are disobeying the law.

I'm fine with disobeying a moronic law, YES, and businesses are "exempted from egregious laws" when they vote R and not Socialist for Pelosi et al.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Uh huh. Because refusing to serve somebody because of their race/religion/sexuality/gender is totally the same as refusing to serve someone because they are rude and aggressive.

Totally the same.

Um, the lawsuits are coming from some angry people who hate societal and biblical norms! Last time I was on the brunt of discrimination for being a Jew or a Christian LIKE EVERY DAY AT RF, I neglected to sue in an attempt to destroy the uptight straight people!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Knowing that something that is not nice will come and trying to avoid it, doesn’t necessary mean on is ruled by fear.

You dont know, you believe, and you act on fear based on those beliefs because you are scared your god has a bad aim and eill punish the sinners and saints alike, indiscriminately.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm fine with disobeying a moronic law, YES, and businesses are "exempted from egregious laws" when they vote R and not Socialist for Pelosi et al.

"Vote Republican and be exempt and above the law!" Jesus must be so proud.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

but there are few of you

Yes, because everyone who criticizes Christianity is automatically an atheist.

Do you think every racist was a religionist?

Did I say that were? Nope. But those that were, they were told, by the Supreme Court, to go bugger off because they don't get to put themselves above the law to put others below it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Um, the lawsuits are coming from some angry people who hate societal and biblical norms! Last time I was on the brunt of discrimination for being a Jew or a Christian LIKE EVERY DAY AT RF, I neglected to sue in an attempt to destroy the uptight straight people!!

Go ahead! Try and sue on this basis of discrimination against Christians. Do it, so we can have more evidence that Christians don't want to be legally equal, they want to be legally above the law and entitled to special treatment and privileges not bestowed to others.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Um, the lawsuits are coming from some angry people who hate societal and biblical norms!

No, they are coming from people who are being affected by businesses illegal discrimination against them.

Last time I was on the brunt of discrimination for being a Jew or a Christian LIKE EVERY DAY AT RF,

This made me laugh.

Being challenged is not "discrimination", but you saying so says a lot about what you truly feel.

Treating other people as lesser and removing their rights = freedom.

Your beliefs being challenged = DISCRIMINATION!!

I neglected to sue in an attempt to destroy the uptight straight people!!

Or, because doing so would be utterly absurd and any attempt you would make to sue would fail spectacularly because no crime is being committed and no actual discrimination is occurring.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Uh huh. Because refusing to serve somebody because of their race/religion/sexuality/gender is totally the same as refusing to serve someone because they are rude and aggressive.

Totally the same.

You seem blithely unaware that rather than live and let live, the liberals often have an angry agenda!

 

[BilliardsBall]

"Vote Republican and be exempt and above the law!" Jesus must be so proud.

Well, the Republicans DID abolish slavery via changing crappy laws in America... Jesus is proud of anyone who votes R because they support families, freedom and is pro life!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, the Republicans DID abolish slavery via changing crappy laws in America... Jesus is proud of anyone who votes R because they support families, freedom and is pro life!

Both parties have radically change and realigned since then. Such as when many Southern Dems became Republican because Republicans became the party of Jim Crowe.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm fine with disobeying a moronic law, YES, and businesses are "exempted from egregious laws" when they vote R and not Socialist for Pelosi et al.

No, different governments will sometimes change the law. This is different from making some set of bigots exempt from a law on the books.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nonsense again. Gay weddings were ILLEGAL in 1964 so cake shop owners in the 1960s could confidently buy cake equipment then without the worry, right?

Actually, in Obergefell v. Hodges, the Supreme Court confirmed that the right to same-sex marriage is established in rights found in the 14th Amendment, which means same-sex marriage has been legal in the US since 1868. The US government was breaking the law by failing to recognize this fact.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Um, the lawsuits are coming from some angry people who hate societal and biblical norms!

Slavery was once upheld as a societal and biblical norm.

Same-sex marriage is building more acceptance every day in Christianity. Many Christian denominations not only

 

[columbus]

Slavery was once upheld as a societal and biblical norm.

Bingo!

Christians like to believe that the people who went on Crusades, slaughtered and enslaved black people and native Americans, built the German gas chambers and operated them, and all that stuff, weren't really Christian.
But they were.
Tom