So Who Are The Adults Pulling The Strings of the Child Climate Change Protests?

[icehorse]

Nope. Yawn

I'm not the only poster who called you out on the post in question. I guess we're all wrong and you're right?

But then I remember, if no one understands what you meant, maybe it's your language that wasn't quite right.

 

[Shad]

I'm not the only poster who called you out on the post in question. I guess we're all wrong and you're right?

Considering those posters conflated influence with educated yes they are wrong. Go read those posts.

Ad populum

But then I remember, if no one understands what you meant, maybe it's your language that wasn't quite right.

Yet if you know this why not bother to ask for clarification? You didn't bother so your objection has no merit as you are making after being refuted. You are still ignoring your own mistake of conflating influences with educated. Try again son.

I said influenced yet you read educated. Get a dictionary.


"This is a false dilemma. There is an extremely plausible 3rd option here, that being that she has learned some things from her activist parents, but that she has also done her own research and formed some of her own opinions. I have heard her hold up her end of complex dialogs, and while that in itself doesn't prove she's not "just a mouth-piece" it's a strong indicator that you've oversimplified your assessment."

Yawn.

 

[icehorse]

@Shad How about you up your game and don't waste everyone's time with basic fallacy arguments?

 

[Notanumber]

I'm fine with the idea of comparing costs, but we have to be honest with both alternatives. So, for example, what will be the cost when Miami is under water?

By no means do I think that converting to new energy approaches will be cheap. But for the last 100 years we've been postponing the long-term expenses of fossil fuels and pretending that they're cheaper than they are. In other words, if we zoom way out and limit ourselves to solutions that are sustainable in the long run - over the course of centuries - then our use of fossil fuels has been fundamentally dishonest. We've known for decades that we would - for practical purposes - run out of fossil fuels soon. And if we zoom out, then arguments about estimates being off by a few decades are not helpful.

So by all means, let's analyze costs, but let's do it from a useful perspective.

It seems I dodged a bullet when I bought a petrol car in preference to an EV.

 

[icehorse]

It seems I dodged a bullet when I bought a petrol car in preference to an EV.

So what's your take? Do you think we'll keep discovering more oil? What do you propose we do to continue to getting energy?

 

[icehorse]

@Shad

You know I was thinking about this, and I must confess I made an error in categorizing your fallacy argument. Upon further reflection, I think your argument was more of a "causal fallacy" than a "false dilemma".

 

[Shad]

@Shad How about you up your game and don't waste everyone's time with basic fallacy arguments?

@Shad

You know I was thinking about this, and I must confess I made an error in categorizing your fallacy argument. Upon further reflection, I think your argument was more of a "causal fallacy" than a "false dilemma".

https://www.crowdstrike.com/wp-content/brochures/FancyBearTracksUkrainianArtillery.pdf

Get a dictionary yet? Your assertions of a fallacy still fails as you do not understand basic definitions of words

 

[Notanumber]

So what's your take? Do you think we'll keep discovering more oil? What do you propose we do to continue to getting energy?

How much of the Earths resources including gas & oil are being wasted on manufacturing, installing, maintaining, removing and decommissioning renewable energy generating equipment and all the associated infrastructure.

Data

 

[icehorse]

https://www.crowdstrike.com/wp-content/brochures/FancyBearTracksUkrainianArtillery.pdf

Get a dictionary yet? Your assertions of a fallacy still fails as you do not understand basic definitions of words

That's shocking news, I'll have to rethink everything!

 

[icehorse]

How much of the Earths resources including gas & oil are being wasted on manufacturing, installing, maintaining, removing and decommissioning renewable energy generating equipment and all the associated infrastructure.

Data

Some.

But again, what do you propose we do?

 

[Notanumber]

Some.

But again, what do you propose we do?

Have you carried out any research into United Nations Agenda 21 and Agenda 2030?

If so, do you find them concerning?

If the national government of France is a signatory and promotes nationwide programs in support of the goals of Agenda 21, it would explain the rising of the Yellow vest movement.

Yellow vests movement - Wikipedia

 

[icehorse]

Have you carried out any research into United Nations Agenda 21 and Agenda 2030?

If so, do you find them concerning?

If the national government of France is a signatory and promotes nationwide programs in support of the goals of Agenda 21, it would explain the rising of the Yellow vest movement.

Yellow vests movement - Wikipedia

Okay, I skimmed the wikipedia article. I think I've already claimed that fuel prices have been unsustainably low for decades. If not, I'll claim that now. As the world's supply of oil decreases, prices will go up. It sounds like the French government has NOT done a good job of spreading the pain of increased fuel prices across all of France's economic spectrum, but that bit of poor governing is independent of this discussion, no?

Again, I propose rerouting ALL of our energy subsidies in the direction of fusion research and renewables research, and not a penny more towards subsidizing big oil - which is quite profitable without any assistance from governments.

So NaN - what do you propose?

 

[Notanumber]

Okay, I skimmed the wikipedia article. I think I've already claimed that fuel prices have been unsustainably low for decades. If not, I'll claim that now. As the world's supply of oil decreases, prices will go up. It sounds like the French government has NOT done a good job of spreading the pain of increased fuel prices across all of France's economic spectrum, but that bit of poor governing is independent of this discussion, no?

Again, I propose rerouting ALL of our energy subsidies in the direction of fusion research and renewables research, and not a penny more towards subsidizing big oil - which is quite profitable without any assistance from governments.

So NaN - what do you propose?

Fuel prices may have been unsustainably low for decades in your country but not in the UK.

Did you skim this?

Data

 

[icehorse]

Fuel prices may have been unsustainably low for decades in your country but not in the UK.

Did you skim this?

Data

Less low in the UK, but still unsustainable.

As for the "data" link, let's just take an obvious case: How much longer do you think we can use oil as a major source of energy? 20 years? 50? 100? 1000?

 

[Shad]

How much of the Earths resources including gas & oil are being wasted on manufacturing, installing, maintaining, removing and decommissioning renewable energy generating equipment and all the associated infrastructure.

Data

You are overlooking that consumption of those resources is a problem due to being a common fuel instead of a specialized resource.

 

[Notanumber]

Less low in the UK, but still unsustainable.

As for the "data" link, let's just take an obvious case: How much longer do you think we can use oil as a major source of energy? 20 years? 50? 100? 1000?

You are overlooking that consumption of those resources is a problem due to being a common fuel instead of a specialized resource.

If we are going to take man-made climate change seriously, let’s start by banning all commercial flights.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Not sure this has been posted:

Greta Thunberg target of disinformation around the world

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well if you want the answer to that question , you should ask yourself why aren't they on board?

I mean nobody's going to stick around in a fire, because fire is obvious and people react.

Either the evidence presented for global warming has to be even more convincing than it already is, or we would just have to wait to the Earth literally 'ignites' in order to get full cooperation to address the issue.

Because people are short-sighted, selfish and greedy, especially when the almighty dollar is involved.

The adults living today won't have to live to experience the long-term effects of climate change that the kids of today are going to be stuck dealing with.

 

[icehorse]

If we are going to take man-made climate change seriously, let’s start by banning all commercial flights.

While I wouldn't be quite so black and white, I'd agree that flying should cost MUCH, MUCH more than it does. We should be paying the true costs not the artificial, unsustainable costs, for non-renewables.

 

[SkepticThinker]

My point is this, doing what some say needs to be done is going to be brutally expensive and brutally difficult.

The entire world needs to sacrifice on a scale not seen before.

Now, throw in the 12 years that some say these things must be done within. It is an impossible proposition for many, many reasons.

Is there a true evaluation that determines the amount of man made carbon that is accelerating an apparent natural weather change cycle ?

Is there a valid, reliable, consensus that these massive sacrifices will even work in the short term ?

So the question isn´t ultimately about money, that is just part of it. The question is CAN it be done, and WILL it make any difference. ?

I hear platitudes like yours, and most are valid, but they say nothing about the reality of achieving the goal.

Is it hype ? Is it real ?

I will go along with the program regardless of these questions, but what is the program ?

China has the second largest economy in the world, and they and India are the greatest poulluters in the world.

Why is China exempt from dire emission control because they are a developing country ? That is pure idiocy.

Choking the US to death is not going to change China, or India, or Africa or other Asian nations, or the contribute much in reduction of Co2. The US and Western Europe have already reduced co2 emissions on a grand scale.

Do you see a problem here ?

We have no choice but to do something.
All of these talking points are meaningless. Instead of making excuses about why it's too hard, or why other countries aren't pulling their weight or whatever, how about instead, leading by setting the example?
We have no choice but to do something. No matter how much it costs. We went to the moon for goodness sakes; we are equipped to deal with this problem, we just need the will power.