Why Shouldn't Feminism Exist?

[crossfire]

A bit much to bite off here, but I'll try to get through it.



When I hear the term "Patriarchy," it makes it seem so one-sided. If we're talking about gender roles as traditionally propagated in our culture, both in the past and the present, then we're talking about things that can't be legislated or directly controlled through governmental action.

Indeed.

Whose habits need to change, and why? When it comes to cultural mores and habits, it seems be a mixed bag and somewhat contradictory when looking at the overall culture. It seems that some people want to retain some traditional gender roles while discarding others - and it seems the big argument nowadays is which roles to keep and which ones to throw away.

Again, indeed. This would require bringing these things into consciousness and carefully examining them in a rational way.

Perhaps. I remember feminism was quite different when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s. I've since learned that this was the period of second-wave feminism.

But I never heard the term "Patriarchy" in this context until the 1990s.

Back in the 60s, feminism was just one of many movements advocating for social change and justice, and they were all, more or less, allied with each other. (For example, feminists back in those days weren't pushing for women in combat roles, as they were against the idea of men being put into combat roles as well. This is one of many aspects where feminism has changed drastically.)

Besides, most of the larger issues were addressed and resolved during that era (second wave). One can discern a huge jump between the 1950s era housewives and the working women of the 1970s. That's the result of a movement directed towards a few key, realistic goals and expressed in clear, understandable, unambiguous terms. That's how to get things done, and the feminist movement achieved measurable success.

Yes, there is still much to be done, such as working on ending human trafficking and getting rape kits processed.

I think it was the late 80s/early 90s when things started to get weird. Perhaps a combination of Reaganism, consumerism, cocaine, and Material Girl feminism had some kind of twisted effect on the direction things took at that point.

In any case, the way I see it, if one is required to get an advanced degree in Gender Studies or Psychology to even be able to understand what it is feminists want or what they're asking for, then they're doing it wrong.

It's the antinomianism kicking in--critiquing the nomos.

 

[PureX]

Well, I agree with what you're saying here about the media and the way that certain ideals and political principles get twisted and manipulated in the hearts and minds of the general public. There's also the internet - social media, YouTube, etc. I don't know what the numbers are, although I have come across some who are pro-feminist and others who are anti-feminist. But most people I meet seem to be somewhere in between, at least in the sense that they see that there are other issues which are a greater priority for them.

A lot of people measure things by their own individual perception as well. There are many people who are happy with their lives, doing quite well - and don't see any immediate need for any political movement to alter their current status in society. Of course, not everyone is doing so well, and there are those who try to work to help those who are less fortunate.

My only point here is that (just like with anything else), if they'd focus on the basic issues - particularly in regards to supporting a better quality of life for the poor and working classes - that would certainly be of great benefit to the vast numbers of women and children who numbered among the poor and working classes.

"They" do. The problem is that the people the media portrays as feminists are those that will catch the eye. Both the eye of bias, and the eye of ignorance, because those are the eyes that will keep tuning into the advertisements. So a kind of negative propaganda machine has been created based not on any actual feminist or anti-feminist ideology, but simply on greed pandering to sensationalism. And those three angry man-hating lesbian femi-nazis in Poughkeepsie are as much a part of that sensationalist pandering as the angry men buying into them.

 

[Prestor John]

I'm seeing many claims of "we don't need feminism anymore," without any reasons given.

I'd like to hear the reasons for this statement.

I'm listening.

Because all the stated goals of feminists have already been achieved.

 

[crossfire]

Because all the stated goals of feminists have already been achieved.

There is still much work left to do regarding human trafficking and processing rape kits, and going after those who commit sexual assault, to cite a couple of examples.

 

[Prestor John]

There is still much work left to do regarding human trafficking and processing rape kits, and going after those who commit sexual assault, to cite a couple of examples.

Those have nothing to do with feminism.

Those are jobs for law enforcement and the courts.

 

[crossfire]

Those have nothing to do with feminism.

Those are jobs for law enforcement and the courts.

If law enforcement and the courts have unprocessed rape kits from 30 years ago, there is a problem.

 

[Prestor John]

If law enforcement and the courts have unprocessed rape kits from 30 years ago, there is a problem.

I never said there wasn't a problem.

I just said that it has nothing to do with feminism.

 

[crossfire]

I never said there wasn't a problem.

I just said that it has nothing to do with feminism.

It does when the courts and law enforcement choose not to prosecute such crimes, especially when women make up the vast majority of the victims of these crimes.

 

[shunyadragon]

Those have nothing to do with feminism.

Yes, they are at the heart of the goals of Feminism today.

Those are jobs for law enforcement and the courts.

First, this is not in reality fully achieved . . .

. . . and no the goals have not been achieved. What has been achieved to foundation for the voice of Feminism to advocate change for women in society.

From the world perspective the achievement of woman's equality of social and legal rights has not been achieved.

Actually I do not care for the word 'Feminism,' because of the historical negative connotations, and the one sided perspective of women in society by many as to what Feminism represents..

 

[YAS]

Well... I think that some people have a real problem with feminism as that has been taught to them for years... or just listened to the media's opinion for far too long.... or are just fed up and need something to moan about

 

[Prestor John]

It does when the courts and law enforcement choose not to prosecute such crimes, especially when women make up the vast majority of the victims of these crimes.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that the reason these charges never reach prosecution is due to sexism?

If not, then you cannot claim that this is a feminist issue.

Many charges never reach prosecution for various reasons. Lack of evidence being the biggest I can think of.

 

[Prestor John]

Yes, they are at the heart of the goals of Feminism today.

"Feminism today" is not actual feminism, but totalitarianism.

How is human trafficking a feminist issue? What can any feminist do? Help us build the wall?

Do you want to help process rape kits? Become a police officer. It is not a feminist issue.

Charging perpetrators of sexual assault is not a feminist issue.

Thinking that it is is what leads to "Believe all women!" and "Guilty until proven innocent!"

Feminism is supposed to be about making all men and women equal under the law.

That has been achieved.

First, this is not in reality fully achieved . . .

So you are encouraging vigilantism?

No amount of lobbying or complaining is going to stop human beings from being trafficked, process rape kits or stop sexual assaults.

It is by supporting our local, State and Federal law enforcement agencies that these things are accomplished.

Stop punishing officers for doing their jobs and their jobs will get done.

. . . and no the goals have not been achieved.

Name one law that discriminates against women.

What has been achieved to foundation for the voice of Feminism to advocate change for women in society.

From the world perspective the achievement of woman's equality of social and legal rights has not been achieved.

Agreed.

Take the fight to the caliphate where it is needed.

Actually I do not care for the word 'Feminism,' because of the historical negative connotations, and the one sided perspective of women in society by many as to what Feminism represents..

The word "feminism" has not received any negative connotations from "history".

All the negative comes from current third-wave feminism.

Feminism is not longer needed in the West.

 

[crossfire]

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that the reason these charges never reach prosecution is due to sexism?

If not, then you cannot claim that this is a feminist issue.

Many charges never reach prosecution for various reasons. Lack of evidence being the biggest I can think of.

Whether it is due to sexism or not, the vast majority of the victims are female.

 

[crossfire]

Feminism is supposed to be about making all men and women equal under the law.

That's Egalitarianism, not feminism. Feminism goes a step further by bringing the cultural nomos into consciousness and examining and critiquing it.

All the negative comes from current third-wave feminism.

Feminism is not longer needed in the West.

See the discussion thread Third Wave Feminism is Basically Vivisection of the Cultural Nomos

 

[Prestor John]

Whether it is due to sexism or not, the vast majority of the victims are female.

How does that make it a feminist issue?

 

[Prestor John]

That's Egalitarianism, not feminism. Feminism goes a step further by bringing the cultural nomos into consciousness and examining and critiquing it.




See the discussion thread Third Wave Feminism is Basically Vivisection of the Cultural Nomos

Is this all just a reference to the non-existent and ridiculous notion of the "Patriarchy"?

 

[crossfire]

Is this all just a reference to the non-existent and ridiculous notion of the "Patriarchy"?

Do you disagree with sociologists regarding the existance of a cultural nomos? Feminism calls our nomos "The Patriarchy."
Nomos (sociology) - Wikipedia

 

[shunyadragon]

How does that make it a feminist issue?

Patterns of violence against women is a feminist issue. Of course a male chauvanist like you would deny that.

 

[Prestor John]

Do you disagree with sociologists regarding the existance of a cultural nomos? Feminism calls our nomos "The Patriarchy."
Nomos (sociology) - Wikipedia

I don't disagree with the concept of nomos, but I do disagree with the "feminist" idea of "The Patriarchy".

 

[Prestor John]

Patterns of violence against women is a feminist issue. Of course a male chauvanist like you would deny that.

No, violence against anyone is a law enforcement and personal defense issue.

Men and women are equal under the law. Good job feminists. Your job is done.