Why Shouldn't Feminism Exist?

[crossfire]

I'm seeing many claims of "we don't need feminism anymore," without any reasons given.

I'd like to hear the reasons for this statement.

I'm listening.

 

[Enoch07]

I haven't heard anyone say that specifically.

We could all use a little less zealotry though. Radical feminism - Wikipedia

Edit: oh and Trans-exclusionary radical feminism - RationalWiki

 

[crossfire]

I haven't heard anyone say that specifically.

We could all use a little less zealotry though. Radical feminism - Wikipedia

Edit: oh and Trans-exclusionary radical feminism - RationalWiki

I hear the question, "do we really need feminism anymore?" all of the time, as often as I hear the statement, "Feminism is a cancer."

 

[PureX]

I'm seeing many claims of "we don't need feminism anymore," without any reasons given.

I'd like to hear the reasons for it.

I'm listening.

The fact that we have a president boasting about "grabbing women's pussies" would certainly indicate that we need a renewed push to assert feminist values in this country.

 

[crossfire]

The fact that we have a president boasting about "grabbing women's pussies" would certainly indicate that we need a renewed push to assert feminist values in this country.

I'm looking for the people who say "we don't need feminism," and why.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I haven't heard anyone say that specifically.

We could all use a little less zealotry though. Radical feminism - Wikipedia

Considering what feminism is ("the radical notion that women are people" according to the quote that's been attributed to a few people), I'm not sure why anything less than zealotry is called for.

I'd have real problems with someone who was only moderately behind the idea: someone who felt that women should have less than equal rights.

 

[PureX]

I'm looking for the people who say "we don't need feminism," and why.

Well, to play the 'devil's advocate', I am currently working at a dental facility that employs about 8 dentists and maybe 30 support staff. A couple of the dentists are female, the rest are male. Everyone else working there, besides myself, are women. All the office people are women. All the clinical aids are women. All the dental assistants are women. The only men are myself (building maintenance) and a few of the dentists.

Over the years I have known many married couples roughly my age of whom the wives were the main earners, and could gain upward mobility at their jobs relatively easily, while the husbands had difficulty finding decent paying jobs, and could not get past this female wall that separated the laborers from the upper management. Because women are viewed as being willing to work for less pay than men, and for being more 'obedient' than men, generally, they have been the preferred employees for many decades now in middle management positions. Creating this wall between labor and upper management that men cannot get across.

Part of this great divide that is happening between the very rich and everyone else is because women have taken many of the middle management jobs that men used to do, but have taken those jobs for less money, and with less 'push back' in terms of maintaining their rights.

This is an area where feminism has been used to subjugate men, and a lot of social and economic damage has resulted.

 

[shunyadragon]

I hear the question, "do we really need feminism anymore?" all of the time.

The question is a little too opened, and needs to be clarified. For example: Do we need more equality under the law and in society?

Anymore? A previous poster made a relevant statement concerning the problem of extremism in feminist movements.

 

[crossfire]

Well, to play the 'devil's advocate', I am currently working at a dental facility that employs about 8 dentists and maybe 30 support staff. A couple of the dentists are female, the rest are male. Everyone else working there, besides myself, are women. All the office people are women. All the clinical aids are women. All the dental assistants are women. The only men are myself (building maintenance) and a few of the dentists.

Over the years I have known many married couples roughly my age of whom the wives were the main earners, and could gain upward mobility at their jobs relatively easily, while the husbands had difficulty finding decent paying jobs, and could not get past this female wall that separated the laborers from the upper management. Because women are viewed as being willing to work for less pay than men, and for being more 'obedient' than men, generally, they have been the preferred employees for many decades now in middle management positions. Creating this wall between labor and upper management that men cannot get across.

Part of this great divide that is happening between the very rich and everyone else is because women have taken many of the middle management jobs that men used to do, but have taken those jobs for less money, and with less 'push back' in terms of maintaining their rights.

This is an area where feminism has been used to subjugate men, and a lot of social and economic damage has resulted.

About Dental Hygientists: -sourced from American Dental Hygienists Association-

• There are more than 150,000 registered dental hygienists in the United States.
  
• About 98 percent of the nation’s dental hygienists are female.
  
• There are 300 entry level, 60 degree completion and 18 master degree dental hygiene programs.
  
• Job prospects for dental hygienists are expected to remain excellent, and the employment rate is expected to grow 30 percent through 2016.
  
• Dental hygienists who graduate from an accredited dental hygiene program receive an average of nearly 2,000 hours of classroom study in academic subjects emphasizing basic sciences, dental sciences, dental hygiene theory (including pain control, nutrition, oral health education, and preventive counseling), and periodontics (the study of gums and their supporting structures). These hours include at least 600 hours of supervised instruction in preclinical and clinical skills.

 

[crossfire]

Well, to play the 'devil's advocate', I am currently working at a dental facility that employs about 8 dentists and maybe 30 support staff. A couple of the dentists are female, the rest are male. Everyone else working there, besides myself, are women. All the office people are women. All the clinical aids are women. All the dental assistants are women. The only men are myself (building maintenance) and a few of the dentists.

Over the years I have known many married couples roughly my age of whom the wives were the main earners, and could gain upward mobility at their jobs relatively easily, while the husbands had difficulty finding decent paying jobs, and could not get past this female wall that separated the laborers from the upper management. Because women are viewed as being willing to work for less pay than men, and for being more 'obedient' than men, generally, they have been the preferred employees for many decades now in middle management positions. Creating this wall between labor and upper management that men cannot get across.

Part of this great divide that is happening between the very rich and everyone else is because women have taken many of the middle management jobs that men used to do, but have taken those jobs for less money, and with less 'push back' in terms of maintaining their rights.

This is an area where feminism has been used to subjugate men, and a lot of social and economic damage has resulted.

So feminism causes too much competition for men to get jobs? Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm seeing many claims of "we don't need feminism anymore," without any reasons given.

I'd like to hear the reasons for it.

I'm listening.

I used to be in that crowd. For shame.
Honestly, I think there is legitimate discourse available. But both sides seem highly politically charged. Which seems somewhat problematic to discussion.

 

[Stevicus]

I'm seeing many claims of "we don't need feminism anymore," without any reasons given.

I'd like to hear the reasons for it.

I'm listening.

It depends on how it's presented. If it's feminism as in the common people vs. the ruling class, then we might still need it. If it's feminism which pits the common people against the common people, then we don't need it.

 

[crossfire]

It depends on how it's presented. If it's feminism as in the common people vs. the ruling class, then we might still need it. If it's feminism which pits the common people against the common people, then we don't need it.

Could you give an example of each so I can better understand? Thanks.

 

[dianaiad]

I hear the question, "do we really need feminism anymore?" all of the time, as often as I hear the statement, "Feminism is a cancer."

I agree with you. I hear both the statement and the question the same number of times; zero.

I HAVE heard "we don't need extremism," and 'the extreme form of 'feminism' ('feminism' is always said/written in quotes, since nobody who says this equates extremism with honest feminism as it was originally intended) is wrong headed and just as damaging as the idea that men are the natural masters/owners of women.'

Those things I have heard, if not in so many words.

When 'feminists' stop thinking, and working for, equality and start thinking 'revenge,' we don't need it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Feminists do Exist, and until equality becomes a reality will continue to do so.
They are more part of the answer, than part of the problem.

If you think equality is the problem you are a misogynist, and definitely part of the problem.

 

[PureX]

So feminism causes too much competition for men to get jobs? Am I understanding you correctly?

I think I explained my point fairly well. When women went to work they took a lot of the jobs that men were doing, and they were willing to work for less money, driving all wages down. Now they occupy a whole segment of the job market between labor and upper management creating a kind of wall that men have difficulty crossing.

 

[crossfire]

I agree with you. I hear both the statement and the question the same number of times; zero.

I do hear it and see it all the time, but not necessarily on this forum.

A quick google search for "feminism is a cancer" will yield all sorts or results, including T-shirts with this saying printed on them.

-google search: feminism is a cancer-

 

[crossfire]

I think I explained my point fairly well. When women went to work they took a lot of the jobs that men were doing, and they were willing to work for less money, driving all wages down. Now they occupy a whole segment of the job market between labor and upper management creating a kind of wall that men have difficulty crossing.

So the increased competition for jobs is why feminism should not exist? Understood.

 

[Father Heathen]

The problem is that feminism is conflated with misandry moreso than with egaliterianism, especially when you have some feminists saying bat**** insane things like paternity tests are sexist and that NASA and SpaceX are bad because they're spreading patriarchy into outerspace, while other feminists dare not speak out against their "sisters-in-arms".

There also seems to be this notion that arousal, attraction, and masculinity in and of themselves are toxic and offensive, and that asexual androgyny should be the ideal for men.

 

[crossfire]

The problem is that feminism is conflated with misandry moreso than with egaliterianism, especially when you have some feminists saying bat**** insane things like paternity tests are sexist and that NASA and SpaceX are bad because they're spreading patriarchy into outerspace, while other feminists dare not speak out against their "sisters-in-arms".

Yes there are some real nut-jobs all over the place between the feminist and anti-feminist spectrum. Would getting rid of feminism cure this, or would they still be nut-jobs?

There also seems to be this notion that arousal, attraction, and masculinity in and of themselves are toxic and offensive, and that asexual androgyny should be the ideal for men.

There's nothing wrong with that--it's sexual harrassment and abuse that is toxic and offensive.