Why Bahai

[shunyadragon]

But Hussain is a nobody because wasn't Bahā'u'llāh a reflection of God himself? Then how could he be like
Hussain?

All Manifestations of God are a reflections of God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But 'Why Baha'i', are you starting to see the power of change it has created?
If not, you will. Great hey

Reminds me of a Mirza Ghalib couplet in Urdu:

"Aah Ko chahiye ek umr asar hone tak, kaun jeeta hai teri zulf ke sar hone tak;
Hum ne mana ke tagafil na karoge lekin, khak ho jayenge hum tum ko khabar hone tak."

It is something like the 'Last Judgment'. The day will never come.

"The Last Judgment[a] or The Day of the Lord (Hebrew: יום הדין‎, romanized: Yom Ha Din, Arabic: یوم القيامة‎, romanized: Yawm al-Qiyāmah or یوم الدین, translit. Yawm ad-Din) is part of the eschatological world view of the Abrahamic religions and in the Frashokereti of Zoroastrianism."
Last Judgment - Wikipedia

"Line 1/2 - Ghalib laments that it would take a lifetime of sighs of the lover to have an influence (or affect) on the heart of the beloved. Who knows who will live so long so see this fructify. Who will live so long to see your hairs properly arranged and your small nuances (curls of your hairs could mean the tangled/mysterious ways of your life) to get resolved. The poet says these small niceties/concerns of yours may take forever and who knows if I am alive to see you finally free and giving me the full attention that I deserve.

Line 7/8 -I know you will not be indifferent to me, but I may have died and turned to dust when the news of my situation reaches you. The poet says that I know you will not be apathetic towards me forever, but it could be that by the time you care to inquire about my well being (or respond to my love); I may be dead and turned to dust. The poet reassuringly tells his beloved, that I understand you will not be indifferent towards me, but who knows I may be dust by the time you get some news of me. One could also interpret it as poet hinting that if his love is not requited he will kill himself for the sake of love and it will be the only news she will get."
Translation - Aah Ko Chahiye Ek (Ghalib) | Bad Moon Rising

 

[shunyadragon]

Well they've got that wrong.
That's more like President Trump?
Could he be the Mahdi?

More unfounded acrid sarcasm.

 

[oldbadger]

Once one starts to study these times they start to understand why God chose to give the Message of peace amongst such blood thirsty and hostile people in a way that caused the limbs of mankind to quake. The dawn of peace required the battle of Armageddon.

One can now see how biblical prophecy unfolds in spiritual metephor

Imagine giving a Message that the Muslim Divines did not want to hear back in the mid 1800's. There was no world watching then.

Still, the world can now know most things but still turns a blind eye to injustices.

Regards Tony

So he did write that stuff?
He was like that?

 

[firedragon]

All Manifestations of God are a reflections of God.

Okay. Thus, Hussain was also a manifestation of God in your opinion?

 

[oldbadger]

What do you want people to see in those verses?

I have read them and seen a wow factor. But I also found the balance is God doeth as He Willeth.

This matter requires study of the history, here is one thought.

Shoghi Effendi's secretary wrote on his behalf:

"....The severe laws and injunctions revealed by the Báb can be properly appreciated and understood only when interpreted in the light of His own statements regarding the nature, purpose and character of His own Dispensation. As these statements clearly reveal, the Bábí Dispensation was essentially in the nature of a religious and indeed social revolution, and its duration had therefore to be short, but full of tragic events, of sweeping and drastic reforms. These drastic measures enforced by the Báb and His followers were taken with the view of undermining the very foundations of Shí'ah orthodoxy, and thus paving the way for the coming of Bahá'u'lláh. To assert the independence of the new Dispensation, and to prepare also the ground for the approaching Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh the Báb had therefore to reveal very severe laws, even though most of them, were never enforced. But the mere fact that He revealed them was in itself a proof of the independent character of His Dispensation and was sufficient to create such widespread agitation, and excite such opposition on the part of the clergy that led them to cause His eventual martyrdom..." (from a letter dated February 17, 1939 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, quoted on p 214 of the Most Holy Book)

It is an amazing history, some epic battles.

Regards Tony

The Double-Think is just mind-blowing.
If Pol Pot's personal secretary had written about how devoted Pol was to his people and country........ I could not be much more saddened by such a reversed history.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But Hussain is a nobody because wasn't Bahā'u'llāh a reflection of God himself? Then how could he be like
Hussain?

I can only repeat what I have read people were waiting for. Shoghi Effendi has listed who both the Bab and Baha'u'llah are in full detail.

Would you like me to quote that?

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

The historical facts are Paul never met Jesus, and wrote everything about Jesus Christ without first hand information.

Obviously! He knew nothing about Jesuis!

Back peddling to justify your misinformation simply is not acceptable.

Your full of nasty lies, from an aggressive anti-Baha'i agenda.

People like me know more truth about it, or speak more truth about it, than you can.

You choose to ignore the citations of writings of three generations that all agree and explan progressive revelation from the Baha'i perspective.

I chose to investigate the amazing fabrications spun by Bahai.

 

[MikeDwight]

Sorry I'm just so bored from 5 threads on bahullalaal and what are we saying and sorry and what am I supposed to do here.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So he did write that stuff?
He was like that?

A Maifestation of God, yes.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

The evidence supports the Baha'i inclusiveness of the diversity of humanity, support for minority rights, and the separation of religion and state.

Amazing.
So that's your spin for how non-Bahais would be treated in a Bahai Theocracy.

Separation of religion and state indeed........ and you call me a nasty liar.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sorry I'm just so bored from 5 threads on bahullalaal and what are we saying and sorry and what am I supposed to do here.

Participate or carry on as before.

All good.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

Sorry I'm just so bored from 5 threads on bahullalaal and what are we saying and sorry and what am I supposed to do here.

Hi....
As long as the World gets as bored as you about this, and stays bored, then the World might be saved.

 

[oldbadger]

Hi.
the Holy Prophet of Islam (pbuh) who propagated peace in the true sense, who bade us to do good to our parents even if they be non-Muslims, to live peacefully with our neighbors and to maintain their rights. My readers may not take these views on the Holy Prophet (pbuh) kindly given that in present days Islam is much maligned. The media has made terrorism synonymous with Islam. However I can assure you that an objective study of Islam and the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and his successors - the Imams (as) will reveal otherwise

I would be happy to have an objective look at the beginnings of Islam with you to see just how peace loving the prophet and his successors were. It would be fun, Titles like "The Sword of Allah" are always fun to dig into, the civil wars are fascinating and some of the actual archaelogical and historical evidence as well as comparisons with contemporary sources from the highly literate neighbors of the Islamic conquest have been made available in easy to access form. Shall we start with the internal violence to establish initial domination of the tribes..... or shall we limit it to the violence of the Arab tribal confederation that ensued?

Peace

I would read more, but this thread is about Bahai.
And before we could ever discuss Islamic violence we'd need to review Christian wickedness first.

But thanks to you for your post.
OB

 

[oldbadger]

The sarcasm get's deeper and deeper. .

Sarcasm can be a useful debating tool.
This is a debate!

It's no good for you to parrot away about how good Bahai is when you're trying to hoodwink folks who have spent a little time in investigating it for any truth.

I guess that's why you're only left with flag waving...... if you try to make a real claim you'll probably get put right.

 

[oldbadger]

More unfounded acrid sarcasm.

Questions cannot be 'unfounded', and sarcasm is what debaters like you are worth.

I don't know why you bother because your posts do more harm for Bahai than good, imo. I can respect many Bahai debaters while debating fiercely against them........ but you.......

 

[Moz]

`

You are being selective of your history of different religions to justify your agenda. There is no evidence the New Testiment as we know it existed by 200 AD except for a few disjoint scrapes.



Terribly selective and naive as to how the Book of Revelations is understood in the history of Christianity



What is described in the OT was tribal war, and not always defensive. Your contradiction here is criticized the Babis for defending themselves than justify the Jews, and history as a matter of fact the tribal wars involving the history of the Jews was not defensive.

The advent of christianity meant their was to be NO nation of christians and warfare became moot for christians until the Romans get involved in the 300's.
...................................................

Again terribly naive and unrealistic considering the history of Christianity.

Again it just shows that you don't know the history of christianity only what you think you know.

The "companions of Christ" lived lives of absolute peace and were, for the most part, martyred for their faith.And for the next couple of hundred years this example held.
The "companions of Muhammud" were warrior nomads who led armies to conquer Empires and died wealthy and powerful beyond belief and their descendants ruled half the world.
............................................................
Only Muhammad in the spiritual role of the Revelation at the time.
It is pretty easy to poke wholes into this Muhammad charector. The Saudies are madly concreting over any site that could possibly be used to examine the facts from the 600's. No archaeological investigation of a supposedly 4000 year old city or the houses of the early caliphs was allowed, but their is enough to reconstruct the bare bones of the early years and they do not fit the later Imperially endorsed account.

Peace

Your selective perspective of judging other religions to justify yours is disingenuous. The Bishops of Rome compiled the Bible you know today.[/QUOTE]
Hi

You are being selective of your history of different religions to justify your agenda. There is no evidence the New Testiment as we know it existed by 200 AD except for a few disjoint scrapes.

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Are you denying that their was a christian community in Asia minor in the first three centuries, well that's silly.
So show me an act of christian violence in the 300 years period referred too.
......................................................................................................

It is you who go on about "progressive revelation" and then have the gall to say.... Your contradiction here is criticized the Babis for defending themselves than justify the Jews, and history as a matter of fact the tribal wars involving the history of the Jews was not defensive
The whole point is that Jesus taught that we have progressed beyond the need to fight for a country. YOU want to take us backwards to making religious warfare possible.
.............................................................................................................

Brother. Thats a very vague statement and I cant understand how this thread turned into a discussion on Christianity to be frank.

Hi.
It is because of all these claims of "progressive Revelation" that have been made in these pages. If christianity and Islam are diametrically opposed and are in direct contradiction which each other it goes a long way in disproving the Bahai teachings as well doesn't it?

I thought that contrasting the way the followers of these "prophets" behaved in the years after their leader died might give some insight to whether the two teachings are in harmony or were in any way a progression one to the other.

And in my defence this started with me replying to a post on these pages referring to the message of peace of the prophet of Islam.
Peace

 

[firedragon]

I can only repeat what I have read people were waiting for. Shoghi Effendi has listed who both the Bab and Baha'u'llah are in full detail.

Would you like me to quote that?

Regards Tony

Sure. Please go ahead and quote that. This thread was opened to learn about the faith so of course.

I was only asking for your personal logical explanation of your own statement. But thats fine.

 

[oldbadger]

A Maifestation of God, yes.

Regards Tony

Dear oh dear...... folks start these threads and we push against each other in thrust and parry........ in this case a member who suggested unfamiliarity with Bahai, who soon was showing some level of intimate knowledge about it, started this one.

We get on fine when when we're chatting about everyday stuff, and then along comes a Bahai thread, and, *crunch*.

I don't debate against most other religions unless they are promoting something which I think is bad, it's only Bahai, probably because I took an interest in it while my Bahai wife was alive. It was a cuddly religion back then, it was so 'nice', and then I started seeing what happened to the local Bahai who was gay (a journalist), and how a Bahai chairman treated workmen, and more ............. and then I started reading.....

....... but it's the World Wide Web that has transmitted the serious criticisms of Bahai where back in the day it was all just safe cuddly stuff. It's a simple truth, Tony, that Bahai cannot hide it's midden any more.

 

[oldbadger]

`

Your selective perspective of judging other religions to justify yours is disingenuous. The Bishops of Rome compiled the Bible you know today.
Hi

You are being selective of your history of different religions to justify your agenda. There is no evidence the New Testiment as we know it existed by 200 AD except for a few disjoint scrapes.

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Are you denying that their was a christian community in Asia minor in the first three centuries, well that's silly.
So show me an act of christian violence in the 300 years period referred too.
......................................................................................................

It is you who go on about "progressive revelation" and then have the gall to say.... Your contradiction here is criticized the Babis for defending themselves than justify the Jews, and history as a matter of fact the tribal wars involving the history of the Jews was not defensive
The whole point is that Jesus taught that we have progressed beyond the need to fight for a country. YOU want to take us backwards to making religious warfare possible.
.............................................................................................................

Hi.
It is because of all these claims of "progressive Revelation" that have been made in these pages. If christianity and Islam are diametrically opposed and are in direct contradiction which each other it goes a long way in disproving the Bahai teachings as well doesn't it?

I thought that contrasting the way the followers of these "prophets" behaved in the years after their leader died might give some insight to whether the two teachings are in harmony or were in any way a progression one to the other.

And in my defence this started with me replying to a post on these pages referring to the message of peace of the prophet of Islam.
Peace

Hello again......
I agree with you that the 'sell' of Bahai about being a Progressive Revelation is just waffle.

As Bahai has needed to seek a wider audience, so its need to accommodate other religions outside of the Abrahamic religions has increased. And so it is seeking to include Eastern religions now in its portfolio, and has built a big temple in India (I believe).

It's real history as compared to its claims leave it so naked.....