oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Executing some crimes by death in flames?
....... I think I see.......
-
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Why Bahai
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
....... I think I see.......
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Did not Bahaullah say the things mentioned in the link? The person has given references.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
What a laugh. Paul didn't know anything about Jesus. Never wrote a line to describe anything that Jesus said or did in life or campaign.
No there is direct relationship of Paul to Jesus Christ.
And that shows just how crank your debate can be against opposers.
You describe a genuine mistake (Great grandson) as a deliberate 'misinformation, that was.
Goodbye.
Oh..... dreadful nasty lie.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
So why not show us a couple of paragraphs?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Yeah...... see that....... anybody against the Faith is wrong, even if they be 'respectable' ??
The English translation is equally full of flowery nightingales and so forth.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Yeah...... see that....... anybody against the Faith is wrong, even if they be 'respectable' ??
The English translation is equally full of flowery nightingales and so forth.
I did not understand your point.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Wow! There was you at the start of this thread, UNFAMILIAR with Bahai.
And here is the new you just a few posts along....:-
"firedragon, post: 6313243, member: 45358"]This is a translation and cannot copy text.
Well, Firedragon....... how unfamiliar with it all you seem to be.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I just wait for any Bahai to acknowledge just how wicked the ideas of the Bab were. Here are the Babi writings once again, out of the Bayan and other works.
Please acknowledge these verses. Thankyou
OB
--------------------------------------------
[21] While some statements in the Bayan show tolerance, there are other very harsh regulations in regards to relations with non-believers. For example, non-believers are forbidden to live in five central Iranian provinces, the holy places of previous religions are to be demolished, all non-Bábí books should be destroyed, believers are not to marry or sit in the company of non-believers, and the property of non-believers can be taken from them.[21
------------------------------------------
Over to MOHAMMED REZA ISFAHANI, APRIL 2006
The following article outlines some of the atrocities committed by the followers of the Babi Faith. While a few of the incidents of carnage and violence are committed by the Babis (including some of the Letters of the Living), it is interesting to note that The Bab in Bayan actually encouraged violence to establish his doctrine on the earth. Unfortunately, a few of his followers, as the incidents below will show were only to happy to comply with his order.
The murder of Haji Mulla Taqi
Haji Mulla Taqi was a leading cleric in Iran who denounced the Bab and his doctrine. Interestingly, Tahera Qurratul Ayn was his daughter-in-law. E G Browne writes, "This (public denunciation of the Bab) cost him his life, for at length certain Babis, stung by his words into uncontrollable anger fell upon him early one morning as he was praying in the mosque and with knives and daggers inflicted upon him eight wounds from the effects of which he expired two days later."
(Ref: Traveller's Narrative, page 198. Also Nuqtatul Kaf, pages 142-143)
Attacking a town and killing its governor
They (Babis) attacked the town and even killed the governor Zainul Abedin Khan - the chief author of their sufferings - while he was at the bath. Finally troops were sent from Shiraz by the governor Tahmas Mirza, and these aided by the tribesmen of Darab and Sabumat, succeeded at length in stamping out the insurrection"
(Ref: Traveller's Narrative, page 258)
The burning of villages
The Babis started looting and plundering the adjoining villages and whatever they could lay their hands on. If they met with any resistance, then they would burn the entire village.
(Ref: Materials For The Study Of The Babi Religion, Prof. E. G. Browne, Page 241)
In one such village the Babis saw that some non-Babis had sought protection. Mulla Hussain and some other Babis arrived at the village and killed 130 people in one night.
Mulla Husayn, the first to believe on the Bab, "notwithstanding his slender and fragile frame and trembling hand," attacked the man who had killed the first Babi and "sliced him in two like a fresh cucumber." Then six other Muslims were killed. "One child was killed accidentally with its father, a dervish, whom they [the Babis] slew because he purposely gave them a misleading answer to a question which they had put to him as to their road."
(Ref: Taarikhe' Jadid, page 50, 361)
Wherever the Muslims existed, the rampaging Babis set out to plunder and annihilate them. None was spared. Children were killed, elders were massacred, the pregnant women had their wombs ripped open, and several females were defiled. Mere killing did not satiate the devilish desires of the Babis, they would loot their belongings and set their houses afire.
(Ref: Nuqtatul Kaf, Page 161, Kashfuz Zulumah, Page 125).
There are historical narrations about the 'mistakes' committed by villages.
"Initially these villages believed in Bab, but later they denied him, and so they had endure the punishment"
(Ref: Nuqtatul Kaf, Page 163)
The violent doctrines of the Bab
The Babi Shariah directs that all who did not accept this Shariah should be put to death,
(Ref: Makatib, Volume 2, page 266)
The Bab has directed that all books other than those written by him should be destroyed.
(Ref: Al-Munazirat, page 167, Bayan, Arabic Chapter 1)
O my followers! Surely Allah has made fighting obligatory for you. You must conquer the cities and the people for Babism and don't be at peace with those who reject Babism".
(Ref: Bayan, Arabic Chapter 1)
It is the duty of every Babi king that he should not allow any non-Babi to live n his realm. This is also binding upon the other Babis as well. The only non-Babi who could be allowed to live in the country was one who carried on some trade of benefit for other people.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 4, Wahid 8)
The Bab began the fifth Wahid of the fifth Bab Al-Bayan as follows: "Those who do not accept the Bab and his religion, all their belongings should be snatched away from them, if that is possible: but if they accept him their property can be returned to them."
The Babi Sharia ordains that where a man was in possession of a hundred misqals of gold, he should hand over 19 misqals to the Bab and 18 disciples called the Haruful Hayi. In case these had died, the gold was to be given to their heirs. It has also been ordained that of everything the best portion was for the Bab; the middle one for disciples specially near and dear to him; and only the lowest quality was for the use of the common people.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 16, Wahid 8)
The principle has been laid down that all Babis were pure people, while all those who failed to accept the Bab were impure and dirty, and the same principle applied to all their belongings and things connected with them. The Bab has further explained this point by saying that even if the non-Babis bathed in the sea a thousand times every day, they could not become clean and pure in body.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 2, Wahid 6)
The Bab has directed that no follower should read any book other than Al-Bayan.
(Ref: Bayan, Wahid 4, Bab 10)
"If a Babi acquires a thing from a non-Babi, then by the transfer of the thing, it becomes lawful for him".
(Ref: Bayan, Arabic Chapter 4)
It is ordained in the Babi Shariah that any one who hurts the feelings of the Bab, or his successors after him, was to be killed; and for bringing about his death every possible means could be adopted.
(Ref: Al-Bayan, Bab 15, Wahid 6)
The above words of the Bab are not open to any kind of explanation. The Bab expressly prohibited the interpretation of his words. He wrote, "It is not permissible to interpret the Bayan other than in accordance with the interpretation given by its Tree (the Bab)."
(Ref: Bayan Persian, Unity Two).
So if the Bab encouraged Babis to kill, loot and plunder, no explanation is required except to say that the Bahai Faith is nothing but a child of the Babi Faith. Readers must also note that the Bahais take the name of the Bab with great reverence - as pointed out in the introduction to this series on the Bab, "Bahais believe that the Bab (1819-1850) was an independent Messenger of God, whose mission was to inaugurate a new cycle in humanity's spiritual development. His writings prepared the way for the mission of Bahaullah." Having said that, the Bahais should acknowledge the violent character of the Babi Faith.
Readers should also appreciate the subtle differences between law and practice. When the law is corrupt, the practices will be too. When the law is not corrupt, it does not automatically guarantee that the practices will not be corrupted. However if they are, then the practice is to be blamed and not the law. In the case of the Babi Faith, the former is true. Violence against non-Babis was a law which was willingly practised by the Babis..
Needless to say that these beliefs of the Bab are in stark contrast with the beliefs of the Holy Prophet of Islam (pbuh) who propagated peace in the true sense, who bade us to do good to our parents even if they be non-Muslims, to live peacefully with our neighbors and to maintain their rights. My readers may not take these views on the Holy Prophet (pbuh) kindly given that in present days Islam is much maligned. The media has made terrorism synonymous with Islam. However I can assure you that an objective study of Islam and the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and his successors - the Imams (as) will reveal otherwise.
Please acknowledge these verses. Thankyou
OB
--------------------------------------------
[21] While some statements in the Bayan show tolerance, there are other very harsh regulations in regards to relations with non-believers. For example, non-believers are forbidden to live in five central Iranian provinces, the holy places of previous religions are to be demolished, all non-Bábí books should be destroyed, believers are not to marry or sit in the company of non-believers, and the property of non-believers can be taken from them.[21
------------------------------------------
Over to MOHAMMED REZA ISFAHANI, APRIL 2006
The following article outlines some of the atrocities committed by the followers of the Babi Faith. While a few of the incidents of carnage and violence are committed by the Babis (including some of the Letters of the Living), it is interesting to note that The Bab in Bayan actually encouraged violence to establish his doctrine on the earth. Unfortunately, a few of his followers, as the incidents below will show were only to happy to comply with his order.
The murder of Haji Mulla Taqi
Haji Mulla Taqi was a leading cleric in Iran who denounced the Bab and his doctrine. Interestingly, Tahera Qurratul Ayn was his daughter-in-law. E G Browne writes, "This (public denunciation of the Bab) cost him his life, for at length certain Babis, stung by his words into uncontrollable anger fell upon him early one morning as he was praying in the mosque and with knives and daggers inflicted upon him eight wounds from the effects of which he expired two days later."
(Ref: Traveller's Narrative, page 198. Also Nuqtatul Kaf, pages 142-143)
Attacking a town and killing its governor
They (Babis) attacked the town and even killed the governor Zainul Abedin Khan - the chief author of their sufferings - while he was at the bath. Finally troops were sent from Shiraz by the governor Tahmas Mirza, and these aided by the tribesmen of Darab and Sabumat, succeeded at length in stamping out the insurrection"
(Ref: Traveller's Narrative, page 258)
The burning of villages
The Babis started looting and plundering the adjoining villages and whatever they could lay their hands on. If they met with any resistance, then they would burn the entire village.
(Ref: Materials For The Study Of The Babi Religion, Prof. E. G. Browne, Page 241)
In one such village the Babis saw that some non-Babis had sought protection. Mulla Hussain and some other Babis arrived at the village and killed 130 people in one night.
Mulla Husayn, the first to believe on the Bab, "notwithstanding his slender and fragile frame and trembling hand," attacked the man who had killed the first Babi and "sliced him in two like a fresh cucumber." Then six other Muslims were killed. "One child was killed accidentally with its father, a dervish, whom they [the Babis] slew because he purposely gave them a misleading answer to a question which they had put to him as to their road."
(Ref: Taarikhe' Jadid, page 50, 361)
Wherever the Muslims existed, the rampaging Babis set out to plunder and annihilate them. None was spared. Children were killed, elders were massacred, the pregnant women had their wombs ripped open, and several females were defiled. Mere killing did not satiate the devilish desires of the Babis, they would loot their belongings and set their houses afire.
(Ref: Nuqtatul Kaf, Page 161, Kashfuz Zulumah, Page 125).
There are historical narrations about the 'mistakes' committed by villages.
"Initially these villages believed in Bab, but later they denied him, and so they had endure the punishment"
(Ref: Nuqtatul Kaf, Page 163)
The violent doctrines of the Bab
The Babi Shariah directs that all who did not accept this Shariah should be put to death,
(Ref: Makatib, Volume 2, page 266)
The Bab has directed that all books other than those written by him should be destroyed.
(Ref: Al-Munazirat, page 167, Bayan, Arabic Chapter 1)
O my followers! Surely Allah has made fighting obligatory for you. You must conquer the cities and the people for Babism and don't be at peace with those who reject Babism".
(Ref: Bayan, Arabic Chapter 1)
It is the duty of every Babi king that he should not allow any non-Babi to live n his realm. This is also binding upon the other Babis as well. The only non-Babi who could be allowed to live in the country was one who carried on some trade of benefit for other people.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 4, Wahid 8)
The Bab began the fifth Wahid of the fifth Bab Al-Bayan as follows: "Those who do not accept the Bab and his religion, all their belongings should be snatched away from them, if that is possible: but if they accept him their property can be returned to them."
The Babi Sharia ordains that where a man was in possession of a hundred misqals of gold, he should hand over 19 misqals to the Bab and 18 disciples called the Haruful Hayi. In case these had died, the gold was to be given to their heirs. It has also been ordained that of everything the best portion was for the Bab; the middle one for disciples specially near and dear to him; and only the lowest quality was for the use of the common people.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 16, Wahid 8)
The principle has been laid down that all Babis were pure people, while all those who failed to accept the Bab were impure and dirty, and the same principle applied to all their belongings and things connected with them. The Bab has further explained this point by saying that even if the non-Babis bathed in the sea a thousand times every day, they could not become clean and pure in body.
(Ref: Bayan, Bab 2, Wahid 6)
The Bab has directed that no follower should read any book other than Al-Bayan.
(Ref: Bayan, Wahid 4, Bab 10)
"If a Babi acquires a thing from a non-Babi, then by the transfer of the thing, it becomes lawful for him".
(Ref: Bayan, Arabic Chapter 4)
It is ordained in the Babi Shariah that any one who hurts the feelings of the Bab, or his successors after him, was to be killed; and for bringing about his death every possible means could be adopted.
(Ref: Al-Bayan, Bab 15, Wahid 6)
The above words of the Bab are not open to any kind of explanation. The Bab expressly prohibited the interpretation of his words. He wrote, "It is not permissible to interpret the Bayan other than in accordance with the interpretation given by its Tree (the Bab)."
(Ref: Bayan Persian, Unity Two).
So if the Bab encouraged Babis to kill, loot and plunder, no explanation is required except to say that the Bahai Faith is nothing but a child of the Babi Faith. Readers must also note that the Bahais take the name of the Bab with great reverence - as pointed out in the introduction to this series on the Bab, "Bahais believe that the Bab (1819-1850) was an independent Messenger of God, whose mission was to inaugurate a new cycle in humanity's spiritual development. His writings prepared the way for the mission of Bahaullah." Having said that, the Bahais should acknowledge the violent character of the Babi Faith.
Readers should also appreciate the subtle differences between law and practice. When the law is corrupt, the practices will be too. When the law is not corrupt, it does not automatically guarantee that the practices will not be corrupted. However if they are, then the practice is to be blamed and not the law. In the case of the Babi Faith, the former is true. Violence against non-Babis was a law which was willingly practised by the Babis..
Needless to say that these beliefs of the Bab are in stark contrast with the beliefs of the Holy Prophet of Islam (pbuh) who propagated peace in the true sense, who bade us to do good to our parents even if they be non-Muslims, to live peacefully with our neighbors and to maintain their rights. My readers may not take these views on the Holy Prophet (pbuh) kindly given that in present days Islam is much maligned. The media has made terrorism synonymous with Islam. However I can assure you that an objective study of Islam and the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and his successors - the Imams (as) will reveal otherwise.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Wow! There was you at the start of this thread, UNFAMILIAR with Bahai.
And here is the new you just a few posts along....:-
"firedragon, post: 6313243, member: 45358"]This is a translation and cannot copy text.
View attachment 32837
Well, Firedragon....... how unfamiliar with it all you seem to be.
Of course. People read. I did too.
So what's your point?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Don't say that. Bab is the 'Mahdi'* for Bahais.
* "The Mahdi (Arabic: ٱلْمَهْدِي, ISO 233: al-mahdī, meaning "the guided one") is an eschatological redeemer of Islam who, according to some Islamic traditions, will appear and rule for five, seven, nine, or nineteen years (according to differing interpretations) before the Day of Judgment (yawm al-qiyamah, meaning "the Day of Resurrection") and rid the world of evil ".
Mahdi - Wikipedia
firedragon
Veteran Member
Do they believe bab is mahdhi?
Once one starts to study these times they start to understand why God chose to give the Message of peace amongst such blood thirsty and hostile people in a way that caused the limbs of mankind to quake. The dawn of peace required the battle of Armageddon.
One can now see how biblical prophecy unfolds in spiritual metephor
Imagine giving a Message that the Muslim Divines did not want to hear back in the mid 1800's. There was no world watching then.
Still, the world can now know most things but still turns a blind eye to injustices.
Regards Tony
What do you want people to see in those verses?
I have read them and seen a wow factor. But I also found the balance is God doeth as He Willeth.
This matter requires study of the history, here is one thought.
Shoghi Effendi's secretary wrote on his behalf:
"....The severe laws and injunctions revealed by the Báb can be properly appreciated and understood only when interpreted in the light of His own statements regarding the nature, purpose and character of His own Dispensation. As these statements clearly reveal, the Bábí Dispensation was essentially in the nature of a religious and indeed social revolution, and its duration had therefore to be short, but full of tragic events, of sweeping and drastic reforms. These drastic measures enforced by the Báb and His followers were taken with the view of undermining the very foundations of Shí'ah orthodoxy, and thus paving the way for the coming of Bahá'u'lláh. To assert the independence of the new Dispensation, and to prepare also the ground for the approaching Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh the Báb had therefore to reveal very severe laws, even though most of them, were never enforced. But the mere fact that He revealed them was in itself a proof of the independent character of His Dispensation and was sufficient to create such widespread agitation, and excite such opposition on the part of the clergy that led them to cause His eventual martyrdom..." (from a letter dated February 17, 1939 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, quoted on p 214 of the Most Holy Book)
It is an amazing history, some epic battles.
Regards Tony
Baha'u'llah has recorded;
"When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things “verily I am God”; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!"
Such Is a Messenger of God.
On one hand they are all we can know of God, on the other we see a man like us.
Yet given this power they allow men to walk all over them.
Such great humility can not be matched.
Regards Tony
No it has not. The best you have done is a 'hand wave' and failure to respond.
Still waiting . . .
This only means you are reaching this limiting conclusion from a hostile non-believer position trying to put religions in your own convenient boxes,
What mystery?
Still does not explain you selective position as to 'your claim of protecting' some religions, and arbitrary categorizing the Baha'i Faith of co-opting when what you describe is what ALL religions claim.
The historical facts are Paul never met Jesus, and wrote everything about Jesus Christ without first hand information.
The historical facts are: Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l baha and Shoghi Effendi had intimate personal communications in three generations. These are facts whether Christianity or the Baha'i Faith are true religions or not.
Back peddling to justify your misinformation simply is not acceptable.
Your full of nasty lies, from an aggressive anti-Baha'i agenda.
You choose to ignore the citations of writings of three generations that all agree and explan progressive revelation from the Baha'i perspective.
Why not use the translation from the Baha'i writings themselves rather than this other very dated translation?
The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behooveth everyone who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas | Bahá’í Reference Library
I have never heard of the phrase 'Akram Rasool'. Why not copy and past the reference from the English translation provided?
The diversity of conflicting denominations is the worst in Christianity.