What’s your main reason for being a theist or an atheist?

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No Bob, a want is not a need.
I might want a new Mercedes but I do not need a new Mercedes because I have two old Hondas in the driveway.

So why do you think wanting is contrary to a perfect God, keeping in mind that God always GETS what He WANTS?

Roger Waters, the musician, wrote a most excellent song. I don't know it's actual name? But the chorus goes:

What God Wants, God Gets
God help us all.

Indeed-- every god I've ever come across in literature and whatnot? Has been a bully extreme.

Made the worst human bully pale in comparison.

No exceptions.

We, as mere mortals are far better off without such beasts.

 

[Trailblazer]

Roger Waters, the musician, wrote a most excellent song. I don't know it's actual name? But the chorus goes:

What God Wants, God Gets
God help us all.

Indeed-- every god I've ever come across in literature and whatnot? Has been a bully extreme.

Made the worst human bully pale in comparison.

No exceptions.

We, as mere mortals are far better off without such beasts.

The caveat is that God does not want anything for Himself, because God does not need anything for Himself. Sure ,God created humans out of Love for us, but it is only for the sake of humans that God wants us to Love Him, since God does not need our love.

God cannot be a bully because God does not force us to Love Him. In fact, God does not even force us to believe in Him. If God did what you want, talked to you directly instead of through the Messengers, then God would be foisting Himself upon you, but God never does that.

 

[Phaedrus]

Rather, the Messengers are always too fond of stating, Believe in god or suffer the consequences after death.

 

[Trailblazer]

Rather, the Messengers are always too fond of stating, Believe in god or suffer the consequences after death.

There will be consequences, all our actions have consequences.
What those consequences will be nobody but God really knows,

What we can say from what the Messengers revealed is that it is better to believe in God than not to.
It is also better to make that decision in this life, because we won't have free will in the next life.
Only by the prayers of others and the grace of God will we be able to improve our condition.

 

[Phaedrus]

It is pathetic seeing theists defend their Gods and prophets (and sons, messengers, saints, manifestations and mahdis).

A god that actually existed would not need to be so radically defended by believers.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The caveat is that God does not want anything for Himself, because God does not need anything for Himself. Sure ,God created humans out of Love for us, but it is only for the sake of humans that God wants us to Love Him, since God does not need our love..

You have a very odd idea of what "love" actually is... the fact that you believe your god plays Special Favorites pretty much destroys any idea this god is loving in any way that is meaningful. \

 

[Trailblazer]

A god that actually existed would not need to be so radically defended by believers.

God does need that. God has no needs because God is fully self-sufficient.
It is the believers that have needs, because only humans have needs.

 

[Trailblazer]

You have a very odd idea of what "love" actually is... the fact that you believe your god plays Special Favorites pretty much destroys any idea this god is loving in any way that is meaningful.

God does not play Special Favorites. God loves everyone alike, even nonbelievers.

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light."

('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)

 

[wandering peacefully]

Much of what we believe doesn’t require evidence. I

I strongly disagree . That is another clear difference in the beliefs of theists and a-theists.

We do absolutely require clear, non-biased as possible, multi-souced, repeated tested evidence for everything in our lives before accepting something as true or believable.

In many cases I will say just in case that is not the case for all atheists. .

 

[Trailblazer]

I strongly disagree . That is another clear difference in the beliefs of theists and a-theists.

We do absolutely require clear, non-biased as possible, multi-souced, repeated tested evidence for everything in our lives before accepting something as true or believable.

Some theists also require evidence but we realize that there can never be scientific evidence for God, so we just accept the best evidence that is available, the evidence God provides.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Is English your third language?

Second. Find mistakes and let me know. That will help.

 

[CG Didymus]

Some theists also require evidence but we realize that there can never be scientific evidence for God, so we just accept the best evidence that is available, the evidence God provides.

What do you think of the Christians that believe God walked in the garden and spoke with Adam. Or, that he spoke to Moses from a burning bush. Or, when Jesus was baptized, he spoke from heaven and said this is my beloved son?

 

[FooYang]

Roger Waters, the musician, wrote a most excellent song. I don't know it's actual name? But the chorus goes:

What God Wants, God Gets
God help us all.

Indeed-- every god I've ever come across in literature and whatnot? Has been a bully extreme.

Made the worst human bully pale in comparison.

No exceptions.

We, as mere mortals are far better off without such beasts.

Yeah, that's a great album, in fact better than any Floyd album (I'll fight you for that).

That song is not about God though, it's about politics and the hypocrisy of what a lot of people (largely capitalist-leaning Christians) claim to uphold but don't. The (three-part) song is basically the Third Commandment ("Don't take the name of God in vain") summed up perfectly within the framework of the 20th/21st century.

Aside from this, the song Amused to Death (from the same album) perfectly sums up the Nihilism we're currently living in, thanks secularism!!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God does need that. God has no needs because God is fully self-sufficient.
It is the believers that have needs, because only humans have needs.

Except that your god isn't ... fully self-sufficient. Proof? He needed to create people.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God does not play Special Favorites. God loves everyone alike, even nonbelievers.

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light."

('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)

Absolutely false. Proof? The existence of even one atheist. Obviously, your god hates me or something, because I cannot make myself believe in it.

Your quote is obviously a lie. The "ignorance" isn't my fault-- it's your god's. Is it not all-powerful, and all-knowing?

 

[Trailblazer]

What do you think of the Christians that believe God walked in the garden and spoke with Adam. Or, that he spoke to Moses from a burning bush. Or, when Jesus was baptized, he spoke from heaven and said this is my beloved son?

I have no problem with Christians who believe those things, but whether they actually happened or not is another story.
I don't think that God walked in the garden and spoke with Adam but God might have spoken to Moses from a burning bush, and God probably spoke to Jesus from heaven and said this is my beloved son.
Imo.

 

[Trailblazer]

Except that your god isn't ... fully self-sufficient. Proof? He needed to create people.

No Bob, God did not need to create people, God wanted to create people.

 

[Trailblazer]

Absolutely false. Proof? The existence of even one atheist. Obviously, your god hates me or something, because I cannot make myself believe in it.

What makes you think that God wants or needs you to believe in Him?
What makes you think that God wants or needs all atheists to believe in Him?
Do YOU want to believe in God?
If you don't then I do not think it is possible.
If you do it is possible.

Your quote is obviously a lie. The "ignorance" isn't my fault-- it's your god's. Is it not all-powerful, and all-knowing?

He said it is ignorance to think that God does not love you.
He did not say it was your fault if you do not believe that God loves you.
Sometimes I do not believe that God loves me but it is not my fault.
It is nobody's fault, it is just how I feel

 

[Dawnofhope]

Not that I wish to accuse you of anything.....
But honestly, whenever someone says something like that.... plenty of alarm lights are flickering on my virtual dashboard.

"I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are black!"
"I'm not a homophobe, some of my best friends are gay!"
"I'm not an islamophobe, some of my best friends are muslims!"

It's become such a cliché to cover up nasty behaviour that it kind of gives the wrong impression whenever it is stated - even if it is meant honestly.

Take it as you will.

Can't talk for others off course.
But I can honestly tell you that I have exactly 0 respect for theism or religious beliefs.

Don't confuse respect for humans and their right to believe whatever nonsense they wish, with respect for the things that are being believed. There's a huge difference.

As a secularist, I'll gladly stand next to you in a rally to protect your fundamental right of holding religious beliefs. At the same time, I'll flat out tell you that your religious belief is akin to believing in monsters under your bed and as irrational as it gets.

I have respect for a wide spectrum of beliefs, atheism and agnosticism included. OTOH aggressive anti-Theism leaves me cold. I too would openly support and stand up for freedom of belief including atheism. In fact freedom of religion/ belief is a central tenet of my faith.

I may offend your beliefs by saying that, but that doesn't bother me at all.

I follow the principle take no offence, give no offence.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Nothing wrong at all. I personally am not interested. I never said once that others, who enjoy it, shouldn't be. Those who want to argue about it are certainly free to. I won't be joining in. Lots of people don't participate in lots of topics.

Fair enough. I have no interest in arguing either. I intend keeping it civil.