Is sexuality a choice?

[Dan Mellis]

This topic came up recently where someone pointed out that those who call homosexuality a "choice" are most likely bi-sexual, where they can choose which gender they can go with for sex. For those who are not bi-sexual, the word choice doesn't have any relevant context. They have only one choice, and that is who they are inherently attracted to, whether it is the same sex, or the opposite sex. All this discussion of "choice" has no meaning to them.


A bi-sexual can choose hetrosexual or homosexual sex, depending where they are on that spectrum. Someone with little to no bi-sexuality, there is no choice.


Not if you don't have any natural inclinations towards that.


I can't imagine how someone who has no attraction to someone sexually would in fact "choose" to have gay sex. Why would they choose that, if it had no reward for themselves? Would you choose to have sex with anyone you did not find sexually attractive? I cannot fathom how or why or when that could ever happen.


Ah... the "you're going to hell if you do it" thing. These are the things people who are conflicted by their own bi-sexuality struggle with because of cultural norms which tell them it's "dirty", so they deny their own attractions to those of the same sex, repress it, suppress it, and hide it behind condemning others as a way to deny their own attractions to themselves, and others. It is fairly well-known at this point that the most vocal anti-gay people, are in fact closeted gays in denial of themselves.

Funny, but likely very true, how someone like Pat Robertson struggles with this "sin" in himself he uses God to condemn in others. It's all just a projection of his own self-condemnation.


It's all just a movie about their own inner struggles being projected onto the worldscreen for all to behold. It's all just their projects in self-denial. "Methinks the lady doth protest too loudly", as the saying goes.


Or, God is nothing like these preachers' inner demons on display to the world. Of course God looks like an evil prick in their minds. That's their own self-loathing and self-denial projected onto God. They view themselves as condemned. God on the other hand does not appear that way to those who are no so self-conflicted in these ways.

I agree with most of this except when you suggested that bi people could choose homosexuality or heterosexuality. They can't, because they're bisexual. They can chose between homosexual and hetero sex, but that isn't the same as sexuality. Am I making sense?

 

[Dan Mellis]

These people try to make "others" feel guilty. Instead of defending your choice, maybe wiser to throw them a curveball

Why you bother about sexuality of other humans? I believe this is none of your business, unless that person jumps you

Unfortunately, we're often left with no choice other than to defend ourselves. The response I usually get from "why do you even care, can't you just leave us alone" is along the lines of "no, because we love you and don't want you to burn forever," which is of course horse s***.

When we have 'make America straight again' parades and anti lgbt protests outside of UK schools, I think its time to start attacking these beliefs rather than deflecting them.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm interested to hear the views of those who think sexuality is a choice - specifically in response to these questions...

1: did you choose to be heterosexual?

2: could you choose to be homosexual? Remember, just choosing to have gay sex doesn't make you gay. You have to be attracted to the same sex. That's kind of how it works.

If you answered no to either of these, then sexuality isn't a choice. If sexuality isn't a choice, then in what world can anyone be justified in sending gay people to hell?

Another part of this topic is the whole HIV/Aids thing as a punishment. Why would an all powerful god create a pubishment for a specific group of people, that also harmed people outside of that group? Also, why would he bother? Surely he could just send em to hell when they're done, what difference does it make?

To me, its obvious that either God doesn't exist or he's a raging hateful buffoon... Imagine Hitler, but with an IQ of about 31.

It depends upon the person. There are some irreversible choices, but I know this isn't what you are asking about. There is a more researched approach here: Is Homosexuality a Choice? Most people aren't either homosexual or not. Its more like there are genetic factors which can cause some people to be homosexual, others less so or not at all. Sometimes they discover homosexuality and then are converted irreversibly. People can change, often only in one direction. There are many irreversible processes in life, so this should be no surprise.

My opinion is that people are more or less sexual, and that is a large factor. If you are more sexual what I mean is that you have stronger sexual desire. They also can vary in their thinking, such as whether they have an even balance of left and right brain thinking. Thirdly people imprint, somewhat like birds but in more ways and at different times in our lives. Once you fall in love with someone, that affects you forever; and there other imprinting(s), too. There are levels or other areas in human minds where imprinting takes place. I think imprinting does not happen only once for us, not just during childhood, and there can be other things, shapes, sounds ideas that draw us strongly. It is a chemical and mental process that is like etching.

As for your opinions about God I think you're among the ignorant people where this is concerned, not really able to speak on it. You don't seem to have any background of the concepts. You've got some cartoonish figure that you like to lampoon but which has no relevance. You've got zero depth in the subject and almost no interest I think. One cannot informatively talk about God and homosexuality without specifying the context and culture of the people who are affected. In particular you've no idea of which version of God you're talking about when you refer to biblical God. Its already been explained there's no point going over it again here.

 

[Dan Mellis]

God is measured by people's reaction to God, good and evil. Some do not have sober judgement.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, and don't want to jump to potentially false conclusions. Would you mind expanding?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Whether nature or nurture doesn't matter. Nature happens, nurture happens, and between them, they shape the individual. But in terms of many aspects of our nature, and certainly sexual orientation, once set they are essentially immutable.

Which means, sexual orientation is not a choice. It is fixed, very likely before ideas of sexual and romantic attraction are even well formed in a person's young brain.

 

[Dan Mellis]

It depends upon the person. There are some irreversible choices, but I know this isn't what you are asking about. There is a more researched approach here: Is Homosexuality a Choice? Most people aren't either homosexual or not. Its more like there are genetic factors which can cause some people to be homosexual, others less so or not at all. Sometimes they discover homosexuality and then are converted irreversibly. People can change, often only in one direction. There are many irreversible processes in life, so this should be no surprise.

My opinion is that people are more or less sexual, and that is a large factor. If you are more sexual what I mean is that you have stronger sexual desire. They also can vary in their thinking, such as whether they have an even balance of left and right brain thinking. Thirdly people imprint, somewhat like birds but in more ways and at different times in our lives. Once you fall in love with someone, that affects you forever; and there other imprinting(s), too. There are levels or other areas in human minds where imprinting takes place. I think imprinting does not happen only once for us, not just during childhood, and there can be other things, shapes, sounds ideas that draw us strongly. It is a chemical and mental process that is like etching.

As for your opinions about God I think you're among the ignorant people where this is concerned, not really able to speak on it. You don't seem to have any background of the concepts. You've got some cartoonish figure that you like to lampoon but which has no relevance. You've got zero depth in the subject and almost no interest I think. One cannot informatively talk about God and homosexuality without specifying the context and culture of the people who are affected. In particular you've no idea of which version of God you're talking about when you refer to biblical God. Its already been explained there's no point going over it again here.

I mean, what you're saying is no, it isn't a choice. It's either genetic or it's discovered and there's no going back. Which I entirely agree with, by the way!

As for god, you're right. I do view the concept as somewhat cartoonish... But to say I have no idea what I'm talking about is incorrect. I am no theologian, but I am fairly well read and understand (and wholeheartedly reject) the apologetic arguments I've come across so far. I'm unsure what context/culture has to do with it, other than being an indicator that the bible is a work of humans from a barbarous and uneducated period of time.

 

[Jainarayan]

1: did you choose to be heterosexual?

2: could you choose to be homosexual?

I'm gay so I'll reverse these and explain.

1: did you choose to be homosexual?

No. I can say without doubt I liked and was attracted to men even as a teenager. In fact, my first time flying solo was because I got so turned on by a man, and it happened spontaneously. I had no idea what it was, but dang! it was good! I liked other boys too. I knew what being gay was, but I was a teenager in the 70s. It was something you kept hidden, suppressed, denied. I clearly remember guys I fantasized about, whether it was having sex or just being with them in a romantic but non-sexual way. Tl;dr, I wanted a boyfriend.

2: could you choose to be heterosexual?

No. I've seen naked women in magazines and on-line, and quite honestly - forgive me ladies - it's a complete turn-off that's puke-worthy.

Apart from the physical reactions I get seeing or being close to a man I consider attractive, my attraction to certain types of men is not something I think about. It's automatic. With men it's not only about his man-parts. I love everything about men... the way men are built (I am actually partial to chubby bearish guys), the way they think, talk, act, look. Even when there's no sex involved. Women don't have any of those qualities for me.

So, I don't know how anyone can say I choose to be homosexual.

 

[Dan Mellis]

I'm gay so I'll reverse these and explain.

1: did you choose to be homosexual?

No. I can say without doubt I liked and was attracted to men even as a teenager. In fact, my first time flying solo was because I got so turned on by a man, and it happened spontaneously. I had no idea what it was, but dang! it was good! I liked other boys too. I knew what being gay was, but I was a teenager in the 70s. It was something you kept hidden, suppressed, denied. I clearly remember guys I fantasized about, whether it was having sex or just being with them in a romantic but non-sexual way. Tl;dr, I wanted a boyfriend.

2: could you choose to be heterosexual?

No. I've seen naked women in magazines and on-line, and quite honestly - forgive me ladies - it's a complete turn-off that's puke-worthy.

Apart from the physical reactions I get seeing or being close to a man I consider attractive, my attraction to certain types of men is not something I think about. It's automatic. With men it's not only about his man-parts. I love everything about men... the way men are built (I am actually partial to chubby bearish guys), the way they think, talk, act, look. Even when there's no sex involved. Women don't have any of those qualities for me.

So, I don't know how anyone can say I choose to be homosexual.

I entirely agree. It makes me sick when people suggest it, if for no other reason that it's just dumb.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Bisexuals are a mystery to me.
Being attracted to one sex excludes being attracted to the other, in my opinion.

The problem is that bisexuals hide themselves or won't explain their real pulsions to us.

I'm not hiding.

 

[Rival]

Bisexuals are a mystery to me.
Being attracted to one sex excludes being attracted to the other, in my opinion.

The problem is that bisexuals hide themselves or won't explain their real pulsions to us.

What are you talking about? I'm not and never have hidden from anyone. I've been out since age 12. I have a preference for women but there's no "secret" or anything I'm hiding; I'm not a closet lesbian as many people seem to think for some reason, nor am I just 'afraid of men'. I'm really tired of bisexuals being put down by others and essentially being told to make up our minds. It's entirely possible to be attracted to both sexes. I've had trouble with a few things but I'm getting over them now and coming into my own. I love women's bodies, their touch, their conversation, but I like men's dominance (if he's a dom), their voices and other such things. You can totally have it both ways.

 

[Jainarayan]

I must be gay, i prefer men

A cowboy is sitting in a bar when a woman comes up to him and says, "Wow! Are you a REAL cowboy?" He says, "Well ma'am, I ride a horse, I herd cattle, I rope cattle... I reckon I'm a real cowboy." Then he gives her a lecherous leer and says, "So you like cowboys, do ya?" She says, "Oh don't get the wrong idea, I'm a lesbian." He says, "What's that?" She says, "It means I like women. In fact, all day long I think about nothing but gorgeous naked women. Kissing them, touching them, having sex with them... anyway, nice meeting you." And away she goes. A couple minutes later another woman comes by and says, "Hey, are you a REAL cowboy?" He says, "Well, ma'am, I used to think I was, but I just found out I'm a Lesbian."

 

[Estro Felino]

What are you talking about? I'm not and never had hidden from anyone. I've been out since age 12. I have a preference for women but there's no "secret" or anything I'm hiding; I'm not a closet lesbian as many people seem to think for some reason, nor am I just 'afraid of men'. I'm really tired of bisexuals being put down by others and essentially being told to make up our minds. It's entirely possible to be attracted to both sexes. I've had trouble with a few things but I'm getting over them now and coming into my own. I love women's bodies, their touch, their conversation, but I like men's dominance (if he's a dom), their voices and other such things. You can totally have it both ways.

In fact I said "in my opinion"
Thank you for explaining it thoroughly.
I get it now.

 

[Dan Mellis]

Bisexuals are a mystery to me.
Being attracted to one sex excludes being attracted to the other, in my opinion.

The problem is that bisexuals hide themselves or won't explain their real pulsions to us.

With all due respect, your opinion is just plain wrong. It's like saying that preferring blondes means you couldn't possibly like brunettes.

I'm attracted to men and to women. Bisexual people don't hide any more than gay people do, there are just less of us. Strictly speaking, I'm omnisexual, meaning I'm attracted to any gender as long as they're an attractive person.

 

[Dan Mellis]

What I meant is that either you are passive or are active in the sexual intercourse.

Being a woman I can only be passive during intercourse.

Again, wrong. A bi person can be vers, meaning they enjoy being active and passive. You can do both at the same time if you have enough people involved haha

 

[Windwalker]

I agree with most of this except when you suggested that bi people could choose homosexuality or heterosexuality. They can't, because they're bisexual. They can chose between homosexual and hetero sex, but that isn't the same as sexuality. Am I making sense?

Alright, yes. The word choice was a little sloppy there. They can choose to have either homosexual or hetrosexual sex, that is as a "type" of sex with the same sex (homo) or the opposite sex (hetro). They are still bi-sexual, which means they can choose either of those "types" of sex. A bi-sexual does not choose to be a homosexual, or a hetrosexual.

As a footnote to this, homosexual, bisexual, and homosexual are actually not clean dividing lines. Sexuality in general is really more a spectrum of sexual attractions, from hetrosexuality to homosexuallity. It's really more about degrees of leaning. Very few are all 100% one way or the other. Most, tend to be more towards the center, like you would see in any standard normal distribution bell curve. They may be 70/30, or 30/70 on the other side, or 60/40, or right in the middle at 50/50.

Life is a lot messier than our models. We need to change our language.

 

[Dan Mellis]

Alright, yes. The word choice was a little sloppy there. They can choose to have either homosexual or hetrosexual sex, that is as a "type" of sex with the same sex (homo) or the opposite sex (hetro). They are still bi-sexual, which means they can choose either of those "types" of sex. A bi-sexual does not choose to be a homosexual, or a hetrosexual.

As a footnote to this, homosexual, bisexual, and homosexual are actually not clean dividing lines. Sexuality in general is really more a spectrum of sexual attractions, from hetrosexuality to homosexuallity. It's really more about degrees of leaning. Very few are all 100% one way or the other. Most, tend to be more towards the center, like you would see in any standard normal distribution bell curve. They may be 70/30, or 30/70 on the other side, or 60/40, or right in the middle at 50/50.

Life is a lot messier than our models. We need to change our language.

Righto, I'm with you yeah I agree. Its also not as simple as male/female attraction... What about androgenous, trans and hermaphrodite attraction...

We do have a lot of different models, e.g pansexual or omnisexual but I think if we were to do away with the prejudice, none of this would ever come up and it wouldn't matter in the slightest haha

 

[Windwalker]

We do have a lot of different models, e.g pansexual or omnisexual but I think if we were to do away with the prejudice, none of this would ever come up and it wouldn't matter in the slightest haha

And that's where I think changing our language about fitting into boxes helps with that. If we can see ourselves as all on a spectrum of sexuality, that helps get rid of the urge to judge others who appear differently from how we label ourselves. It's only just a matter of how sexuality manifests itself out of that spectrum within ourselves, and we all share in that spectrum. Some are purple on the color spectrum, some are orange, some are teal, some are red, etc. But they are all expressions of light itself, manifest as different colors. Why not celebrate the spectrum, rather than denying the source exists and imagine that we created ourselves this way?

It really is language that divides, and fears which build walls higher around those divisions. The problem, is words.

 

[Earthtank]

"just choosing to have gay sex doesn't make you gay" WTF LOLOLOLOLOLOL @Dan Mellis

 

[Earthtank]

I say this as a secularist. Regardless of of choice or not, having gay sex is wrong because of the the harm and diseases it causes.

In 2014, gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men accounted for 83% of primary and secondary syphilis cases where sex of sex partner was known in the United States and its only gotten worse since then.

 

[Rival]

"just choosing to have gay sex doesn't make you gay" WTF LOLOLOLOLOLOL @Dan Mellis

It doesn't. That's why there's a difference between men who have sex with men and gays, and women who have sex with women and lesbians. Context is key.