That is the description of the illusion that I am coming to understand it to be and the description I have been trying to use, but maybe not so well as you have here.All that I mean by illusion here is the sense that the self experiences itself as the source of its desires when in fact It may be a passive observer of neural processes outside of consciousness that then deliver a message of what the self should want.
This seems to me to be the case.
Good points. We have responsibility in the context of what may be an illusion, but given we have no other means to discern reality, we must shoulder that responsibility.We're liable for them, just like we're liable for the check after dinner. Fault need not enter into the formula. If somebody behaves violently, for example, they have to be dealt with like a tiger loose in the streets. We don't even think in terms of fault with the tiger. Still, we must address the problem even if we hold its source harmless.
Well put. I think I will find these as useful examples to refer back to.Yes. Why not? If your car swerves into a person or building due to a blown tire that could not have been anticipated, it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility. Or your kid needs braces. Not your fault, but it is your responsibility.
That may be the answer to a very important question that arises from all of this. If we have no free will, what is the point of passion for anything? It may be this simple and I will have to accept that. That has its own sort of comfort associated with it. Regardless of choosing the best position on free will, the universe will remain the same.You have no choice. You're compelled to live in the theater of your consciousness, which we have learned will vary according to our actions among other things. We have learned that action A1 results in an desired outcome more than action A2. Now we learn that we may be passive observers to all of this choosing, mistaking our conscious self for the author of the choice. Nothing changes. The rules of experience remain the same.
Determinism means that the result was fully caused and in principle predictable, although in practice, the process may be to difficult to model and calculate the outcome[/QUOTE]That may be a better way to have qualified predictability in my responses to Skwim. In principle predictable with practical difficulties in execution.
Or is he?
Punishment, it seems to me, is a religious concept - the idea that you have earned suffering and therefore should suffer even if it is to the benefit of nobody. What is the concept of hell if not gratuitous suffering of zero value except perhaps to sadists.
Perhaps we should remove the concept of punishment from the equation. We incarcerate violent criminals not to punish them after the fact, but to remove a danger from the streets to serve as a disincentive to others not to be violent, which is a little different from punishing as retribution, and if possible, to rehabilitate the offender..
Are you certain that neurons didn't generate your will deterministically and reveal it to you? Wouldn't that feel the same?