Why do we find ancient references to 8 people in a large boat in diverse cultures and languages

[shunyadragon]

The theory I like is that the Noah's Ark myth, and other Mediterranean variants thereof, are folk memory of the Black Sea inundation, retold and mythologised over thousands of years, although the theory has fallen from favour in recent years.

Black Sea deluge hypothesis - Wikipedia

Flood myth - Wikipedia

It remains that the best explanation for the flood story is the catastrophic flooding of the Tigris Euphrates Valley, which has consistent timing in history for the earliest Sumerian accounts. The sediment layer ~3 to 4 meters thick associated with this flood is truly catastrophic, and likely the greatest flood in history for this valley.

 

[Salvador]

Myths are often based on real life events. But we know that there was nothing close to the flood in the Bible. Mankind was never threatened with extinction animal life was not threatened with extinction That some demand a child's view of the Bible be true is rather ridiculous.

Apparently, the effective population size is far greater than 8.

Based on various shapes, sizes, and races of people, we darn well know everybody didn't descend from only one couple or some few couples within some few thousand generations ago. So then, why even bother frittering away at this.

"Effective population size (Ne) determines the amount of genetic variation, genetic drift, and linkage disequilibrium (LD) in populations. Here, we present the first genome-wide estimates of human effective population size from LD data. Chromosome-specific effective population size was estimated for all autosomes and the X chromosome from estimated LD between SNP pairs <100 kb apart. We account for variation in recombination rate by using coalescent-based estimates of fine-scale recombination rate from one sample and correlating these with LD in an independent sample. Phase I of the HapMap project produced between 18 and 22 million SNP pairs in samples from four populations: Yoruba from Ibadan (YRI), Nigeria; Japanese from Tokyo (JPT); Han Chinese from Beijing (HCB); and residents from Utah with ancestry from northern and western Europe (CEU). For CEU, JPT, and HCB, the estimate of effective population size, adjusted for SNP ascertainment bias, was ∼3100, whereas the estimate for the YRI was ∼7500, consistent with the out-of-Africa theory of ancestral human population expansion and concurrent bottlenecks."

Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium

Logo of genores
Genome Res. 2007 Apr; 17(4): 520–526.
doi: 10.1101/gr.6023607
PMCID: PMC1832099
PMID: 17351134
Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium
Albert Tenesa,1,2,3 Pau Navarro,3 Ben J. Hayes,4 David L. Duffy,5 Geraldine M. Clarke,6 Mike E. Goddard,4,7 and Peter M. Visscher3,

 

[England my lionheart]

For example in the Chinese pictogram for a large boat there are 8 people.
but also Egyptian hieroglyphics reference 8 people in a large barge.
Why so?
Coincidence?
Ancient evidence for Noah?

There were 8 people in "the hateful 8" movie,just saying.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Apparently, the effective population size is far greater than 8.

Based on various shapes, sizes, and races of people, we darn well know everybody didn't descend from only one couple or some few couples within some few thousand generations ago. So then, why even bother frittering away at this.

"Effective population size (Ne) determines the amount of genetic variation, genetic drift, and linkage disequilibrium (LD) in populations. Here, we present the first genome-wide estimates of human effective population size from LD data. Chromosome-specific effective population size was estimated for all autosomes and the X chromosome from estimated LD between SNP pairs <100 kb apart. We account for variation in recombination rate by using coalescent-based estimates of fine-scale recombination rate from one sample and correlating these with LD in an independent sample. Phase I of the HapMap project produced between 18 and 22 million SNP pairs in samples from four populations: Yoruba from Ibadan (YRI), Nigeria; Japanese from Tokyo (JPT); Han Chinese from Beijing (HCB); and residents from Utah with ancestry from northern and western Europe (CEU). For CEU, JPT, and HCB, the estimate of effective population size, adjusted for SNP ascertainment bias, was ∼3100, whereas the estimate for the YRI was ∼7500, consistent with the out-of-Africa theory of ancestral human population expansion and concurrent bottlenecks."

Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium

Logo of genores
Genome Res. 2007 Apr; 17(4): 520–526.
doi: 10.1101/gr.6023607
PMCID: PMC1832099
PMID: 17351134
Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium
Albert Tenesa,1,2,3 Pau Navarro,3 Ben J. Hayes,4 David L. Duffy,5 Geraldine M. Clarke,6 Mike E. Goddard,4,7 and Peter M. Visscher3,

Or as I like to say, just because it confuses the heck out of people that refuse to understand:

The fact that there is no danger of waking up in a seedy motel bathtub that is full of ice and missing a kidney is proof that there was no flood of Noah.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

View attachment 28807

It appears there is an ancient reference to 8 people on a large boat. And from there, early dynasties build on that. The 8 people morphed into an octet of gods

note image from Egyptologist Gavin Cox

So, maybe I am being daft, but in the actual image, I count SEVEN people actually IN the boat, and one giant monster of a person holding it up. Does the scarab reference or symbolize anything with regard to Noah, do you think? And why does one of the people have a bird's head? The boat pictured also doesn't look like it would hold many animals.

 

[shunyadragon]

So, maybe I am being daft, but in the actual image, I count SEVEN people actually IN the boat, and one giant monster of a person holding it up. Does the scarab reference or symbolize anything with regard to Noah, do you think? And why does one of the people have a bird's head? The boat pictured also doesn't look like it would hold many animals.

The boat is a small canoe type boat, and no relevance to the mythological Arc of Noah's flood. Seven people and a giant mythical scarab beetle.

 

[BilliardsBall]

For example in the Chinese pictogram for a large boat there are 8 people.
but also Egyptian hieroglyphics reference 8 people in a large barge.
Why so?
Coincidence?
Ancient evidence for Noah?

We find the flood story in over 100 ancient cultures due to common descent from Noah.

 

[Audie]

So, maybe I am being daft, but in the actual image, I count SEVEN people actually IN the boat, and one giant monster of a person holding it up. Does the scarab reference or symbolize anything with regard to Noah, do you think? And why does one of the people have a bird's head? The boat pictured also doesn't look like it would hold many animals.

If a person wants to see evidence of a miracle, it will
be easy to find some.

As Mark twain noted, for a miracle any sort of evidence
will do. For a fact, you need proof.

Our floodies are not interested in the FACT that there
is a large body of PROOF that there never was a
world wide flood.

 

[shunyadragon]

We find the flood story in over 100 ancient cultures due to common descent from Noah.

Your unbelievable repeated false assertion has been trashed many times. ALL the other floods in the different cultures of the world have been documented in detail as local and regional floods if different dates in history, and not remotely related to Noah's flood.

The only documented flood related to the Genesis account is the catastrophic flood of the Tigris Euphrates Valleys documented by Sumerian cuneiform records recorded ~1600 BCE, and confirmed by Geologic evidence of a sediment layer ~3-4 meters thick.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We find the flood story in over 100 ancient cultures due to common descent from Noah.

You have discussed this topic enough to know that there was no flood. Why defend a literal interpretation of the Bible when doing so amounts to you calling God a liar?

 

[Aupmanyav]

For example, the catastrophic river flood 4,000 years ago is considered accurately recorded, described and dated in Chinese records, and supported by geologic and archaeological evidence.

I think there were huge floods in Europe and America when the ice-caps melted.

 

[Aupmanyav]

My point exactly.

Not really. That the calendar was changed by Hindus by three months is a fact. I am not propounding any new theory. I have only shown what it was like at an earlier age and what it is now.

You can claim a 1,700 - 1,100 BCE date for RigVeda is you disregard all clear astronomical references in RigVeda and the related scriptures. We have a record of a month-by-month change in Hindu calendar for the last 6,000 years. These books were used for rituals and their integrity was cared for to the utmost. You can see how the priests saved the words and even the pronunciation of the verses. It is an absolute science in itself.

"The Padapatha and the Pratisakhya anchor the text's true meaning, and the fixed text was preserved with unparalleled fidelity for more than a millennium by oral tradition alone. In order to achieve this the oral tradition prescribed very structured enunciation, involving breaking down the Sanskrit compounds into stems and inflections, as well as certain permutations. This interplay with sounds gave rise to a scholarly tradition of morphology and phonetics."
Rigveda - Wikipedia

"Prodigious energy was expended by ancient Indian culture in ensuring that these texts were transmitted from generation to generation with inordinate fidelity."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_chant#Oral_transmission

The chant cannot differ even an iota, whether it is recited in Kashmir or in Kerala. It is said that it took 24 years of study to master RigVeda.

 

[Audie]

You have discussed this topic enough to know that there was no flood. Why defend a literal interpretation of the Bible when doing so amounts to you calling God a liar?

And one's self a idiot.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think there were huge floods in Europe and America when the ice-caps melted.

Very local floods taking place at different times. They could not have been " The Flood".

 

[Aupmanyav]

Perhaps the ice-age itself was a flood, a flood by ice.

"O fair Yima, son of Vivaŋhat! Upon the material world the evil winters are about to fall, that shall bring the fierce, deadly frost; upon the material world the evil winters are about to fall, that shall make snow-flakes fall thick, even an arədvi deep on the highest tops of mountains."
Jamshid - Wikipedia

 

[Subduction Zone]

Perhaps the ice-age itself was a flood, a flood by ice.

"O fair Yima, son of Vivaŋhat! Upon the material world the evil winters are about to fall, that shall bring the fierce, deadly frost; upon the material world the evil winters are about to fall, that shall make snow-flakes fall thick, even an arədvi deep on the highest tops of mountains."
Jamshid - Wikipedia

Technically we are still in an ice age. But if you mean the most recent glaciation I would still say no. It was mostly limited to northern North America, northern Europe, and northern Asia. You might notice a trend there. There was no significant glaciation in Africa or Australia:

The only significant ice in the South, besides Antarctica which is still frozen, was in the Andes. This fails as being the source of the "flood" as well.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think there were huge floods in Europe and America when the ice-caps melted.

These were common regional floods I referred to, but not remotely parallel nor associated with the claim of Noah's Biblical flood.

 

[Audie]

There were 8 people in "the hateful 8" movie,just saying.

And!! The "Dead Man's Hand" is.... aces and eights!!!

Furthermore, do you realize why six is afraid of seven?

Because Seven eight nine!!!!

That proves Noahs ark or nothing does.

 

[England my lionheart]

And!! The "Dead Man's Hand" is.... aces and eights!!!

Furthermore, do you realize why six is afraid of seven?

Because Seven eight nine!!!!

That proves Noahs ark or nothing does.

Noahway!!

 

[Audie]

Noahway!!

You're givin' me a noahttack,
a noahttack!