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Some free talk about the flow of religious wisdom

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Central aspect? It isn't Dharma? Do you mean, what's unique about religion, that makes it religion?

I do not particularly see a difference between religion proper and Dharma, although there are plenty of situations where I use that word with different meanings.

So yes, IMO religion is indeed characterized by Dharma.

It turns out that my personal Dharma often gravitates towards situations that emphasize perception of the Sacred in entirely non-theistic ways. As one would expect, that is however highly dependent on circunstances and, most of all, on who I happen to be dealing with at any given time.

Do you mean, religious experience is like a personal relationship, or do you mean that it's different for each person? Both? Other?

Religious experience is the daring joy of perceiving the Sacred and calling it by its first name, with an open heart, a clear conscience, no regrets and no secrets to speak of. Of simply knowing what is proper and that there is no reason to hesitate in paying the prices for following the paths that we must.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
@LuisDantas Is this about how you think your views might be different from mine? Is it to help me understand your views?

Do you have any ideas about how to help me understand what you mean by "sacred"?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
@LuisDantas Is this about how you think your views might be different from mine? Is it to help me understand your views?

Do you have any ideas about how to help me understand what you mean by "sacred"?
Everyone has his or her own views. That is a given.

Not only because our circunstances vary and therefore call for constrasting stances to some degree or another, but also because the very meaning of the situations and concepts is also highly personal, even situational.

The Sacred, however, is a very simple concept; it is no more and no less than that which is worth even without justification.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
The Sacred, however, is a very simple concept; it is no more and no less than that which is worth even without justification.
Do you have any idea how I might be able to stand beside you and see and feel what you're seeing and feeling when you talk about the Sacred? How did you choose that word?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Do you have any idea how I might be able to stand beside you and see and feel what you're seeing and feeling when you talk about the Sacred?
That, too, is a combination of stubb... I mean, of persistence and a small measure of faith.

But it is possible, perhaps likely, that it can't happen at all. That is probably ok.

How did you choose that word?
I did not. I perceived it and realized that it suited my goals.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Come to think of it, even better than faith is a firm commitment to purity of purpose.
It seems to me that to heal grief is one of the most pure manifestations of the sacred, which some people call the divine.
I see a possibility now, because it has already happened, that I might be able to talk to you about some things that mean a lot to me, that might mean something to you, too. Maybe not as much, or in the same way, but some spark of friendly interest. I want to tell you why those words of yours meant so much to me, and about my experiences here with you and with others.

For more than 30 years, the virtue I focused on most of all was purity. When I first decided to focus on that, I was at Purdue University working on a degree in electrical engineering. I decided to try learning that virtue the way I often learned things. I went to the library to look for a book, with exercises, to help me learn to have a pure heart. Looking through the card catalog, I saw the title "Purity of Heart is to Will One Thing." I saw that as the answer I was looking for, and I left without even looking at the book. I never even knew who wrote it until a few years ago. Later in my life, for many years, everything I did in Internet discussions revolved around what I call "cheer and refresh the down-cast." That has also been my focus in these forums for the last few days. Then yesterday, when I was trying to understand what people mean by "Dharma," and what you mean by "the Sacred," I saw you saying "It seems to me that to heal grief is one of the most pure manifestations of the sacred, which some people call the divine."

I don't know if I can tell you enough, I don't know if it's even possible in a forum post to tell you enough, to communicate how much that meant to me, but I'm hoping that what I've said will give you a glimpse of it.

I have a list of ideas that I've wanted to practice and promote, for Internet discussions to be more fruitful and beneficial, not only for the people in them but for all people everywhere. The first two on my list are to pray, and to search in my scriptures for ideas and inspiration. I've had that list for many months, possibly a few years, but I've rarely remembered to practice those two ideas. Now, for the last few days, I've been practicing them intensely, with my thoughts focused on "cheer and refresh the down-cast." I really have no idea what I could be doing, that might do that for someone. I'm not sure that anything I do can do that for anyone, but I'm not sure that it's impossible, and I want to try. I want that to be part of everything I do here. It feels a little to me like throwing a coin in a wishing well, but I'm not sure that what I do can't do any good, so I want to try.

However that may be, stopping every few minutes to pray and to remember a verse from my scriptures, has made my experience in these forums the last few day a wonderful experience for me, and I've been able to resist almost all my temptations to do things that might spoil it for me and for others, much much better than I ever have before.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
What, did you think that I was talking about religious people without including myself?

I wasn't.

No, we aren't deluded or unaware. Not always, and certainly not uniformly. And I meant unconscious, thank you very much. :)

You are a brat, but I love you anyway. I will just make sure to keep you in line when I feel like it and you call for such.

Hey, what do you know? It rhymes.



That is exceedingly unlikely, and it also fails to acknowledge that RF is only one of the many arenas where our fight has to happen. Also that skepticism is very much a necessary value for believers, even more than for unbelievers.

I'm not a brat, I'm God's child. You do not "love me". Real love would lay down your life for me.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
ah.....the telltale heart has spoken
I hoped to have made that clear, @Thief, but I do not find it proper to third-party my religious responsibility to some form of deity, real or otherwise.

If that strikes you as the work of a "telltale heart" or unproper in any way, shape or form, then so be it. I am not looking forward for your approval.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I hoped to have made that clear, @Thief, but I do not find it proper to third-party my religious responsibility to some form of deity, real or otherwise.

If that strikes you as the work of a "telltale heart" or unproper in any way, shape or form, then so be it. I am not looking forward for your approval.
nor I yours.....

so....you have a religious responsibility?
sounds like an op
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
That is a good thing, far as I can see.



Everyone does. I am no exception.


What would an op be here? Not an Opening Post, I assume?
well ...you still don't believe in God
is that right?

and what religious responsibility could you have?
if there is nothing greater than you
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
To the extent that they see fit to organize themselves and establish some form of ideology or doctrine, a need for some form of official stance, an authority, will unavoidably arise. That is advantageous in many ways, but brings very real downsides with it.

One of those downsides is that there will be pressure towards conformity.

To avoid anarchy, submission to core Laws and Moral guidance is imperative. Freedom of view outside the Laws and Moral Guidance must be balanced with these.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
ROTFL! Not on the Internet! My sides are splitting! I can't imagine anyone saying that with a straight face on the Internet! "Loving consultation is the way we work together peacefully." Loving! Peacefully! Oh! Oh! Catch me I'm falling!

Thus it could be time to try and see if it works, if it does not, we can always go back to less productive consultation. :)

Regards Tony
 
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