China: Man intentionally drives into crowd. Kills 6

[Jainarayan]

Combined those nations are around 250 million. Japan is the only one beside the USA to have a population above 100M

Well, I don't mean combining them into one large population. There are a lot of other factors in all those countries (inc. the US) that contribute to shootings. How many of them have the amount of inner city poverty, drug and gang problems the US has?

 

[dianaiad]

No. it's not the isolated incident but the ongoing slaughter unique to the USA. The following is just one example of the "everyone should have a loaded gun" worship. And given the ever rising tide of white nationalist terrorists the problem will get worse.

Just a note: this sign is inaccurate. It is claiming that all the deaths involving ALL guns were the result of HAND guns.

The difference is still very big, but I do like accuracy.

Oh, and when looking this stuff up, I found this:

Notice anything? Struck me pretty hard when I looked at the map....the states with the highest percentage of gun ownership were the states with the lowest rate of gun deaths. (Except the deep south, but they are strange anyway) MOST Of the deaths have occurred on the coasts...the very liberal coasts...

So much for the conservatives being gun happy murderers and the liberals being kind, loving and concerned citizens.....just sayin'.

The thing that made me smile the most is that this map was generated by a group that is very much in favor of banning guns. Well, I think they might have a point. No liberal should be allowed to own a gun. Look what happens when they do!

 

[dianaiad]

Civilians cannot practically give up cars, but they can practically give up guns which are designed for military purposes.

Ah. So your stand is that it is OK to ban something that is used to kill few, but being just fine with something that kills hundreds of times more---because you like your car?

Gotcha.

 

[dianaiad]

Cool strawman.

Explain why this is a strawman.

 

[dianaiad]

Notice that there's also nobody screaming against putting up bollards to protect pedestrian spaces.

"THE ONLY THING THAT CAN STOP A BAD GUY WITH A CAR IS A GOOD GUY WITH A CAR!"

"IF YOU BAN LEGAL CARS FROM SIDEWALKS, THE ONLY CARS ON THE SIDEWALK WILL BE ILLEGAL CARS!"

Those are good, actually, and accurate. You have an argument with them? I mean, really...especially the second one.

 

[suncowiam]

8


Hmm. Including homicide and suicide

U.S. comes in at 46 of 108. Japan at 35

List of countries by intentional death rate - Wikipedia

I'm glad you're debating with statistics now. So, Japan is considered relatively better than US in homicides and suicides. What is your next point?

Where is the correlation to cars and guns, since that was our original conversation?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Just a note: this sign is inaccurate. It is claiming that all the deaths involving ALL guns were the result of HAND guns.

The difference is still very big, but I do like accuracy.

Oh, and when looking this stuff up, I found this:

Notice anything? Struck me pretty hard when I looked at the map....the states with the highest percentage of gun ownership were the states with the lowest rate of gun deaths. (Except the deep south, but they are strange anyway) MOST Of the deaths have occurred on the coasts...the very liberal coasts...

So much for the conservatives being gun happy murderers and the liberals being kind, loving and concerned citizens.....just sayin'.

The thing that made me smile the most is that this map was generated by a group that is very much in favor of banning guns. Well, I think they might have a point. No liberal should be allowed to own a gun. Look what happens when they do!

Ahem...

 

[suncowiam]

I've owned guns all my life and not one of my guns have killed anyone, same as my vehicles.
If a person wants to kill someone they will find a way. We have a people problem.

Let's say you ban guns. Then every one starts using knifes, let's ban knifes. Then everyone uses ??, let's ban ??.

We need to address it's a people problem.

The problem and statistics will show this, is that your guns will have more of likely hood of killing people than cars. Yes, that very same gun you own is more likely to harm people than the car you own, over time.

Every nation has people problems. The next question is what the problematic people will use to cause harm. So... Not every nation has gun problems. Why then does Japan only have 10 homicides by hand gun compared to the thousands that US have? Try explaining that statistic?

So, could I suggest that Japan does not have a hand gun issue, while US does? The next step is to normalize that statistic per population and other demographics. However, I bet you will still find Japan ranking lowest in ALL countries.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Ah. So your stand is that it is OK to ban something that is used to kill few, but being just fine with something that kills hundreds of times more---because you like your car?

Gotcha.

Strawman argument. The point is that cars have a specific, non-killing function that they achieve every day millions of times with a relatively low mortality or injury rate. Guns, by comparison, have a significantly higher useage to injury and death ratio. What's more cars are already heavily regulated and require very strict guidelines in order to qualify for, and continue to operate. A comparison between the two is absurd.

 

[We Never Know]

The problem and statistics will show this, is that your guns will have more of likely hood of killing people than cars. Yes, that very same gun you own is more likely to harm people than the car you own, over time.

Every nation has people problems. The next question is what the problematic people will use to cause harm. So... Not every nation has gun problems. Why then does Japan only have 10 homicides by hand gun compared to the thousands that US have? Try explaining that statistic?

So, could I suggest that Japan does not have a hand gun issue, while US does? The next step is to normalize that statistic per population and other demographics. However, I bet you will still find Japan ranking lowest in ALL countries.

I live in the U.S., not Japan.

U.S. population 327.2 million.
Number of guns 393 million.
Number of deaths by gun 38,000.

When you take out suicides and accidents, that leaves roughly 12,500 murders. Of those 70%-80% are gang related murders(mostly killing each other).

It's a people problem.

 

[We Never Know]

So then you have a different position from that of @We Never Know , so your replies won't help me in what I'm trying to do: understand @We Never Know 's position.

What's my position?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I live in the U.S., not Japan.

U.S. population 327.2 million.
Number of guns 393 million.
Number of deaths by gun 38,000.

When you take out suicides and accidents, that leaves roughly 12,500 murders.

Question: why would you do that?

Of those 70%-80% are gang related murders(mostly killing each other).

It's a people problem.

That is exacerbated by the availability of firearms.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What's my position?

This:

If a person wants to kill someone they will find a way.

So if someone wants to kill a violent attacker, they'll find a way to do it. No gun required... right?

 

[We Never Know]

So... You advocate gun control?

I advocate we should have stricter back ground checks to try to keep guns out of the wrong hands. Nothing is perfect but it may help. Anyone ever treated for any mental disorder, younger years or older years should not be able to purchase, possess, or own a firearm.

Punishing legal law abiding citizens isn't the answer.

 

[Shad]

Well, I don't mean combining them into one large population.

UK is around 66m, Canada 33m, Japan 120m, Sweden 10m, Switzerland 8M.

There are a lot of other factors in all those countries (inc. the US) that contribute to shootings.

Of course. The USA has major issues as per it's history.

How many of them have the amount of inner city poverty, drug and gang problems the US has?

Inner city as in project housing?

Canada has inner city issues but not due to the same reasons which created the US problems. There are drug issues, there are gang issues, there is poverty. Those tend to come with a wage system anyways.

 

[We Never Know]

This:


So if someone wants to kill a violent attacker, they'll find a way to do it. No gun required... right?

Nope. If a violent attacker wants to kill someone they will find a way to do it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nope. If a violent attacker wants to kill someone they will find a way to do it.

But regular people don't have this magic power?

 

[We Never Know]

This:


So if someone wants to kill a violent attacker, they'll find a way to do it. No gun required... right?

Yeah to that to. If someone breaks into your house to kill you, you will find anything in your reach to try to stop them.

 

[Jainarayan]

Inner city as in project housing?

Canada has inner city issues but not due to the same reasons which created the US problems. There are drug issues, there are gang issues, there is poverty. Those tend to come with a wage system anyways.

Yes.

Certainly not to the degree the US has.

 

[Shad]

Yes.

Certainly not to the degree the US has.

Sure. Also Canada has used different systems to address these issues which are only entertained in the US. Different remedies can lead to different results (good/bad) adding another factor which may not exist in the USA.

Population density is a factor. Canada has fewer cities so a lot of the problems are contained. In smaller cities inner city issue are more of a neighborhood or block issue. While in the US people just point to Detriot