The Bible, Not As Original As You'd Think

[ChristineM]

And non facts are non facts

Claim: Horus was born in a cave, his birth announced by an angel, heralded by a star and attended by shepherds.
Truth: There is no reference to a cave or manger in the Egyptian birth story of Horus.

Claim: Horus attended a special rite of passage at the age of twelve and there is no data on the child from the age of 12 to 30.
Truth: There is no continuous effort in the Horus mythology to account for all these years, so there are no real gaps in the chronology. Horus never taught in any temple at twelve (as did Jesus).

Claim: Horus was baptized in a river at the age of 30, and his baptizer was later beheaded.
Truth: Horus was never baptized.

Claim: Horus had 12 disciples.
Truth: Horus had only four disciples (called ‘Heru-Shemsu’),

Claim: Horus performed miracles, exorcized demons, raised someone from the dead, and walked on water.
Truth: Horus certainly performed miracles (he was, after all, described as a god). But there was no mention of exorcizing demons, raising people from the dead or walking on water.

Claim: Horus was called “Iusa”, the “ever-becoming son” and the “Holy Child”.
Truth: No one in Egyptian history was ever called “Iusa” (the word does not exist) nor was anyone called “Holy Child”.

Claim: Horus delivered a “Sermon on the Mount”, and his followers recounted his sayings. He was transfigured on the Mount.
Truth: Horus never delivered a “Sermon on the Mount”, nor was he transfigured.

Claim: Horus was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and was resurrected.
Truth: Horus is not reported to have died at all in the vast majority of Egyptian narratives.

Claim: Horus was called “Way”, “the Truth the Light”, “Messiah”, “God’s Anointed Son”, “Son of Man”, “Good Shepherd”, “Lamb of God”, “Word made flesh”, “Word of Truth”, “the KRST” or “Anointed One”.
Truth: None of these titles are in Egyptian history,

Claim: Horus was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish, Lamb and Lion.
Truth: Some of conspiracy theorists associate Horus with fish (by virtue of the fact that Horus was a fish in some portion of the ancient narrative), but there is no evidence Horus was ever called a “fisher” or was ever associated with the Lion or the Lamb.

Claim: Horus came to fulfill the Law, and was supposed to reign one thousand years.
Truth: There was no Egyptian “law” for Horus to fulfill, and there is no mention of a thousand year reign in Egyptian mythology.

Is Jesus Simply a Retelling of the Horus Mythology? | Cold Case Christianity

All true and carefully selected although some are ambiguous.

Egyptian history however still provides many similarities

 

[blü 2]

Thoughts?.

I saw something very like this years ago, and like this one it was full of assertions that I'd never heard of.

When I tried to check them out, I could find no factual basis for any of them, close enough.

Can anyone point out a link to a reputable site that says Isis was a virgin in any special sense, for example? She was the wife of Osiris and the mother of Horus, but in what important way does that resemble the virgin birth of Matthew and Luke?

Or going the other way, Mark's Jesus isn't born of a virgin ─ he's an ordinary human until God adopts him at his baptism. Only when we get to Matthew do we get a virgin birth, then another in Luke. But John doesn't see anything worth mentioning about Jesus' birth, simply remarking that 'the logos was made flesh'. (In this instance, a virgin inseminated by a god is from Greek tradition.)

Again, can anyone find a link to a reputable site that says Horus was born December 25, or at least midsummer?

Jesus had no birthday to start with. At the start of the 3rd century CE Clement of Alexandria suggested May 20. In the latter half of the 4th century the church in Rome began to observe December 25, the pagan festival of Sol Invictus, 'the unconquered sun', who then begins his return, culminating in the summer solstice.

And so on down the list.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I looked at a few pages and am not concerned with it.

Of course! You believe every word he says, because it feeds into your desired outcome.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I'm not referring to televangelists, if that's what you mean.

Nope. But those certainly qualify. No-- I meant "bible scholars" who sell books, or who sell/promote "universities" who sell cheap "degrees" to gullible folk, for money.

Or even worse, those "bible scholars" who sell videos...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Just expressing my thoughts on the subject and using the scriptures, but not trying to prove anything to the point of convincing anyone who has no desire to believe or know about God anyway.

Then why use a Logical Fallacy? It only makes your god appear.... inept. That isn't good for your cause, even if the person reading does want to believe...

The use of a Logical Fallacy undermines your whole approach, in fact.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The events that would befall the Lord Jesus Christ during His mortal sojourn were known to Adam and all the holy prophets before His birth.

Descendants of Ham who apostatized formed their own twisted version of His mortal life that had already been revealed since our first parents.

The story of Horus is a distorted version of the events of the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which have been known since before the Earth was formed.

Except? That Horus is thousands of years **older** than the Jesus Myth, which is clearly based on the concept, if loosely.

The older myth trumps the younger one. Which is why the bible is easily trumped by older myths-- it's not that old, with respect to Human Civilization. The bible really only reliably dates to around 500 BCE...

 

[stvdv]

We can add to this the birth story of Krishna, which is believed to be about 1,200 years before Jesus. I believe much of the birth story of Jesus was taken from Krishna's.

• Mother becomes transcendentally pregnant. Mary became transcendentally pregnant.
• Krishna is born in a prison cell. Jesus is born in a cave, stable, or such lowly place not befitting a god or royalty.
• His father was not his biological father; he had no biological father, being an incarnation of God (Vishnu). Actually he had two foster fathers.
• He was secreted away to Nanda and Yashoda (his other foster father and his foster mother) just after his birth because an evil king (his maternal uncle) sought to kill him. It was prophesied that Krishna would kill the king.
• A vision told Vasudeva, his father to hide him from his uncle.
• He was of royal descent.
• His mission was to restore dharma, righteousness.
• He was born at midnight, birth star is Rohini.
• The Goddess Durga appeared to the king to tell him that he couldn't kill Krishna because he was already born and hidden away safely.
• Krishna joined his father's livelihood of raising cattle. Jesus became a carpenter like his foster father.

Maybe the story was taken, or maybe Jesus His Life is not the only one that is special, like Christians believe.

 

[Jainarayan]

Maybe the story was taken, or maybe Jesus is not as unique as Christians believe.

Very likely, which is my contention. Many stories throughout history are recycled and re-purposed.

 

[stvdv]

Very likely, which is my contention. Many stories throughout history are recycled and re-purposed.

Nowadays recycling of stories on internet is easy and done continuously. But 2000 years ago there were not many books (transport), and not many could read I think. And what about 5000 years ago (Krishna) compared to 20.000 years ago (Rama) etc. Also those stories have similarities

All humans have lots of similarities, so it makes sense to me that Saint, Avatars also have similarities. Not necessary that stories are recycled I believe; there can be truth in them, another option is that human writers write similar "Saint Novels".

 

[Jainarayan]

Nowadays recycling of stories on internet is easy and done continuously. But 2000 years ago there were not many books (transport), and not many could read I think. And what about 5000 years ago (Krishna) compared to 20.000 years ago (Rama) etc. Also those stories have similarities

All humans have lots of similarities, so it makes sense to me that Saint, Avatars also have similarities. Not necessary that stories are recycled I believe; there can be truth in them, another option is that human writers write similar "Saint Novels".

There are certain truths that transcend time and place. And people did get around. And while it's true very few people could read, there were traveling bards and storytellers. They would go from region to region, town to town and narrate a story. If you ever get to see the movie 'A Knight's Tale' (Heath Ledger) there's a scene were a wandering monk is narrating to a small crowd the story of Peter's denial of Christ. That's how people learned.

The Vedas, for most of their existence, were transmitted orally. Other Hindu scriptures too. Great care was taken to memorize without deviation so we didn't wind up with a game of telephone. There are methods of repeating words in certain orders so that if someone from southern India met someone from northern India whom they'd never met before, they could recite a hymn in unison.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Of course! You believe every word he says, because it feeds into your desired outcome.

Whatever I looked at websites on both sides. I will do a more thorough Google search now.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Of course! You believe every word he says, because it feeds into your desired outcome.

I googled "Comparing Jesus to Horus" and read the first page of results. One funny title was "Horus manure." I promise you I will have no trouble sleeping at night as a Christian.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I googled "Comparing Jesus to Horus" and read the first page of results. One funny title was "Horus manure." I promise you I will have no trouble sleeping at night as a Christian.

You really should not sleep easy. To make that claim they did have to cherry pick from the several different versions of Horus but they all can be found in the stories. And cherry picking and quote mining is something that Christians do to defend their own mythical beliefs. Surely you have heard the false claim of "hundreds of biblical prophecies predict Jesus" lie. If one is consistent if those tactics are valid to support the Jesus story then they are also valid to refute it.

 

[robocop (actually)]

You really should not sleep easy. To make that claim they did have to cherry pick from the several different versions of Horus but they all can be found in the stories. And cherry picking and quote mining is something that Christians do to defend their own mythical beliefs. Surely you have heard the false claim of "hundreds of biblical prophecies predict Jesus" lie. If one is consistent if those tactics are valid to support the Jesus story then they are also valid to refute it.

So I can't go at the first 10 google pages? Where are the pages with the references to the several different versions? Also, what about the "against" web sites that directly show the facts to be different?

If you are scientific, you will say there are no biblical prophecies that predict Jesus because this is not scientifically possible. But they are all over if you think from a religious perspective. For instance, Shadrack, Neeshack and Abindego in the fire is a prophecy about the rapture. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So I can't go at the first 10 google pages? Where are the pages with the references to the several different versions? Also, what about the "against" web sites that directly show the facts to be different?

If you are scientific, you will say there are no biblical prophecies that predict Jesus because this is not scientifically possible. But they are all over if you think from a religious perspective. For instance, Shadrack, Neeshack and Abindego in the fire is a prophecy about the rapture. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Once again, the "against" pages correctly point out the obvious. That not all of those stories an be found in one source. The same applies to the Bible. Since believers want to treat the Bible books as "separate sources" one cannot be consistent and reject the claims of the Horus myth similarities.

What is obvious is that various parts of the Jesus myth were likely cobbled from standard beliefs. For example anyone that has studied the nativity tales knows that they are myths. This does not mean that all of the Jesus story is myths, but at the very least parts of it are myth.

And most of your "prophecies" are merely pattern matching. That can easily be done to support any claim with a vague and poetic source. If one properly limited the prophecies one would not find any real prophecies that Jesus fulfilled.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Once again, the "against" pages correctly point out the obvious. That not all of those stories an be found in one source. The same applies to the Bible. Since believers want to treat the Bible books as "separate sources" one cannot be consistent and reject the claims of the Horus myth similarities.

What is obvious is that various parts of the Jesus myth were likely cobbled from standard beliefs. For example anyone that has studied the nativity tales knows that they are myths. This does not mean that all of the Jesus story is myths, but at the very least parts of it are myth.

And most of your "prophecies" are merely pattern matching. That can easily be done to support any claim with a vague and poetic source. If one properly limited the prophecies one would not find any real prophecies that Jesus fulfilled.

This is being scientific for the sake of being scientific and being anti-religious for the sake of being anti-religious.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is being scientific for the sake of being scientific and being anti-religious for the sake of being anti-religious.

No, it merely points out some of the flaws in theistic reasoning. Consistent reasoning is a frequent problem.

 

[robocop (actually)]

No, it merely points out some of the flaws in theistic reasoning. Consistent reasoning is a frequent problem.

When was the last time you even tried theistic reasoning?

 

[sealchan]

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[For everyone's information, I didn't create the list]

Thoughts?

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There ate also similarities in Matthew's gospel of Jesus' story with that of the Buddha.

Also there is the description in Bart Ehrman 's New Testament textbook of various motifs in the life of a man from Jesus' time named Apollonius of Tyana that greatly resembles that of Jesus'.

What is clear is that much of Jesus' story is the work of literary artists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

When was the last time you even tried theistic reasoning?

Quite a while. That sort of reasoning by theists is only one of the reasons that I am no longer a theist.

Why not try to find out how we know that at the very least parts of the story are mythical and not factual?