The Tragedy Of Transgendered Youth

[Shaul]

And? Science is known for updating itself and changing positions when new evidence comes to light. That's how it's supposed to work.

And nothing. I was simply stating facts for the record. It had been stated the APA doesn’t define homosexuality as a mental disorder, I simply pointed out that was not previously the case. As you state it changed its opinion. It could again back the other way.

 

[Shad]

Well this thread took a weird turn right into a cement wall

 

[Shad]

According to some research there are around 20 million American men who don't have physical issues, but still can't use urinals.

Bad aim?

 

[Shaul]

Is it? So many Christians go on about what the Bible says when they justify their reasons to support discrimination and being a terrible human being (they've long done it with any group they want to oppress).

Yes, it is a false unsubstantiated charge. Considering that there are large populations without Biblical believers that yet support discrimination it is ineluctable that Biblical belief is not a requisite for discrimination. You wrongfully ascribe to causality that which mere association explains.

 

[Jumi]

Bad aim?

Having been to quite a few men's toilets I think that number must be higher in every country.

Nah I think it's this:
Paruresis - Wikipedia

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It had been stated the APA doesn’t define homosexuality as a mental disorder

Yes. Because it doesn't.

I simply pointed out that was not previously the case.

Which is irrelevant.

It could again back the other way.

That is extremely doubtful as their is no evidence to suggest being homosexual causes any disturbances to one's ability to function on a day-to-day basis.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

They're related pretty much only because of a shared history between the two groups. If we haven't been lumped in together for so long, it's doubtful we'd be talking of a LGBT community, and the two would probably be more distinctively separate.

I do understand that, but extricating them completely at this point is probably impractical.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

This hypothetical hairy dude has no penis, he fails the urinal test in the men's room and he's too hairy for the women's room; so logically then, he belongs in neither; there are other public accommodations for somebody like this.

I know two former soldiers who completely lost their genitals from enemy action. In one case, an NVA "bouncing Betty", and the other an Iraqi IED.

Nothing hypothetical about it, these are two very real people, who identify as men, but fail your urinal test. Which bathroom would you have them use?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Having been to quite a few men's toilets I think that number must be higher in every country.

Nah I think it's this:
Paruresis - Wikipedia

I'm surprised that didn't mention social anxieties as a cause, as so much of what it explains seems to heavily mirror the same anxieties related to being around being others.

 

[Prestor John]

Just a Heads Up

"Transgender youths in high school appear to face serious risk for violence victimization, substance use, and suicide, as well as some sexual risk behaviors, indicating a need for programmatic efforts to better support the overall health of transgender youths. Taking steps to create safe learning environments and provide access to culturally competent physical and mental health care might be important first steps to improving the health of transgender youths. Continued research into the health of transgender youths and development of effective intervention strategies are warranted.

source
​

In the USA the average combined enrollment of middle schools plus high schools is 1,347 students.*

This means that in each combined school there are, on average, 24 (1.8% (rounded up to 2% in the report)) transgendered students. Of these, in each school on average

6 are likely to feel unsafe at or going to or from school,
8 are likely to be bullied
8 are likely to attempt suicide

because of their transgender identity


*source

.

​

I do not condone bullying of any kind, but I do not believe that all of these issues are caused by discrimination, but rather their mental health issues.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I do not condone bullying of any kind, but I do not believe that all of these issues are caused by discrimination, but rather their mental health issues.

And fortunately, we have this thing called "the scientific method" that means we don't have to base our understanding of such issues on beliefs, but can use actual evidence, instead.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I know two former soldiers who completely lost their genitals from enemy action. In one case, an NVA "bouncing Betty", and the other an Iraqi IED.

Nothing hypothetical about it, these are two very real people, who identify as men, but fail your urinal test. Which bathroom would you have them use?

I'll pay for his plane ticket to tell these veterans to their face they need to use the women's room because they fail his silly test and standards, which imply he's also challenging their maleness.

 

[Salvador]

I know two former soldiers who completely lost their genitals from enemy action. In one case, an NVA "bouncing Betty", and the other an Iraqi IED.

Nothing hypothetical about it, these are two very real people, who identify as men, but fail your urinal test. Which bathroom would you have them use?

I don't mind anybody using the men's restroom; for the sake of women, I'm just wary about who uses their restroom.

 

[Jumi]

I'm surprised that didn't mention social anxieties as a cause, as so much of what it explains seems to heavily mirror the same anxieties related to being around being others.

Folks with the condition might not have any problems with other noticeable societal anxieties. Someone could go around naked with no problem to public showers, be a public speaker and still not be able to do it... it's very common but not talked about, which tells how much stigma it is.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I'll pay for his plane ticket to tell these veterans to their face they need to use the women's room because they fail his silly test and standards, which imply he's also challenging their maleness.

I'm very keen to see his response and justification.

edit: appears we're getting a backpedal

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I do not condone bullying of any kind, but I do not believe that all of these issues are caused by discrimination, but rather their mental health issues.

Believe what you want, study after study after study do not agree with you. Those who professionally study the subject do not agree with you. Your beliefs do not match facts.

 

[Shaul]

Yes. Because it doesn't.

Which is irrelevant.

That is extremely doubtful as their is no evidence to suggest being homosexual causes any disturbances to one's ability to function on a day-to-day basis.

It isn’t irrelevant. It demonstrates that the APA has changed its opinion in the past so accepting any of its current opinions needs to be done acknowledging that.

You write it is “extremely doubtful” that it could change their opinion back to calling homosexuality a mental disorder. With respect I say they could. They have made mistakes before, after all, by there own admission.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I don't mind anybody using the men's restroom; for the sake of women, I'm just wary about who uses their restroom.

"wary" of what? And you didn't answer my direct and explicit question.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Wait just a minute, there. There are many reasons that explain the problems trans gender or transsexual people face. Laying the blame for them on Biblical belief is a false charge.

In the U.S. religious beliefs, which would be by a huge margin Christian beliefs, are pretty clearly the cause.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

It isn’t irrelevant. It demonstrates that the APA has changed its opinion in the past so accepting any of its current opinions needs to be done acknowledging that.

You write it is “extremely doubtful” that it could change their opinion back to calling homosexuality a mental disorder. With respect I say they could. They have made mistakes before, after all, by there own admission.

Has there ever been an example of them removing a diagnosis or condition, then later re-instating it?