Thoughts on the Fall of Adam

[Subduction Zone]

Ignorant is not the right word. But if you want to use that word, ok. The death sentence was given, passed, on them the day they ate from the tree. They did not have a real pleasant life after that, but they were headed towards death from that day on. Just like when a judge says to a convicted murderer, on this day you are sentenced to die. Even if he said the criminal was to die that day, the execution could be in the future and that was his penalty. That has nothing to do with ignorance in this case.

So God lied. They did not die on that day. Sentenced to die is not the same as dying.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not sure what you mean by a creationist.

A creationist would be one that tends to believe the myths of the Bible and deny reality. For example there never were only two people.

 

[YoursTrue]

Morally he was. You are ignoring the myth again. Like a very very young child he did not have the "Knowledge of Good and Evil". Immediately after he ate the magical fruit that was when he knew what he did was wrong.

Actually morally Adam had a conscience. This is because it was obviously planted in him. His conscience was perfect (made perfect moral choices) until he listened to his wife's voice. When a child who understands language is told not to do something, his conscience is disturbed if he goes ahead and makes the choice to do it anyway. If he gets hurt, it isn't because he does not know what he should have done.

 

[YoursTrue]

So God lied. They did not die on that day. Sentenced to die is not the same as dying.

God said on the day they eat from it they will die. They were not to die if they did not eat from that tree. The death sentence was passed that day. They were headed from that time onward towards death.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually morally Adam had a conscience. This is because it was obviously planted in him. His conscience was perfect (made perfect moral choices) until he listened to his wife's voice. When a child who understands language is told not to do something, his conscience is disturbed if he goes ahead and makes the choice to do it anyway. If he gets hurt, it isn't because he does not know what he should have done.

how is it obvious? If your claim is that he had to have one of else God's actions would have been immoral then you are only making an excuse, not an explanation.

Once again read the story. They did not seem to know that they were doing wrong until after they are the magic fruit.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God said on the day they eat from it they will die. They were not to die if they did not eat from that tree. The death sentence was passed that day. They were headed from that time onward towards death.

And they did not die on that day. God lied.

 

[YoursTrue]

A creationist would be one that tends to believe the myths of the Bible and deny reality. For example there never were only two people.

I studied evolution, was an honor student, and a scholarship winner. I was not a believer much in God or the Bible at that time, but to memorize something shouldn't be that hard for many people. What I now realize is the difficulty of reconciling how a man and woman (human or anything--male or female) just happened to come about at just the right time for them to procreate. Evolution is a fairytale.

 

[YoursTrue]

how is it obvious? If your claim is that he had to have one of else God's actions would have been immoral then you are only making an excuse, not an explanation.

Once again read the story. They did not seem to know that they were doing wrong until after they are the magic fruit.

It was not a magic fruit. Eve believed the devil. There are consequences to that. She knew what God said. She decided to be disobedient. Adam apparently did not believe that he would become like God in the sense that Eve did. But they both died. Evidently you don't have a problem with dying, because it's evolution?

 

[YoursTrue]

And they did not die on that day. God lied.

They were guaranteed to die that day. God did not lie. He said on the day they would eat from that tree they will or shall (future) die. The day they ate from that tree they were as good as dead. Their fate was sealed. It was not removed. Here's how one translation put it. 17 "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.” Notice it says IN the day you eat from it, you WILL surely die.

 

[YoursTrue]

how is it obvious? If your claim is that he had to have one of else God's actions would have been immoral then you are only making an excuse, not an explanation.

Once again read the story. They did not seem to know that they were doing wrong until after they are the magic fruit.

You have to ask yourself how did they know they did something wrong after they ate the fruit.

 

[YoursTrue]

Bad analogy. According to the myth the knowledge of Good and Evil is passed down due to the actions of Adam and Eve. A child can know that something is wrong.

A better one would be a where a mother told her kid something that he could not understand and then he did it anyway, resulting in harm to that child. The parent would be in the wrong Worse yet in this case the parent would have to have set something up that he could have easily avoided and did not. For example if the parent put a riding lawn mower in the middle of the house and a child could not understand the dangers of it. If that child started it and injured himself as a result the parent would be to blame, not the child. And if that parent punished that child for that paren't incompetence we would seem him as an evil monster. Sound familiar?

Actually what is passed down is the consideration not to listen to God.

 

[YoursTrue]

...and honest scientists admit it, but those who desperately cling to their new found faith - Darwinism, aka scientism, go

I did, too, until yes, God opened my eyes. Thankful for that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I studied evolution, was an honor student, and a scholarship winner. I was not a believer much in God or the Bible at that time, but to memorize something shouldn't be that hard for many people. What I now realize is the difficulty of reconciling how a man and woman (human or anything--male or female) just happened to come about at just the right time for them to procreate. Evolution is a fairytale.

Wow! Your second to the last sentence puts grave doubts on your claims to have studied evolution, much less have been an honor student. You could not be more wrong.

Populations evolve. There never was just one man or one woman. There were always thousands, and usually millions of beings evolving.

You believe in a fairy tale and that has warped your understanding.

By the way, only Ray Comfort uses such poor arguments and he is regarded as an idiot even in creationist circles.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually what is passed down is the consideration not to listen to God.

Not according to he myth. Have you even read Genesis?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have to ask yourself how did they know they did something wrong after they ate the fruit.

Once again it appears that you have not read the myth:


"Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves."

They did not even realize that they were naked before (though why it would be wrong to be naked when it was only them and the animals that Adam did not want to have sex with I have no clue).

 

[YoursTrue]

Wow! Your second to the last sentence puts grave doubts on your claims to have studied evolution, much less have been an honor student. You could not be more wrong.

Populations evolve. There never was just one man or one woman. There were always thousands, and usually millions of beings evolving.

You believe in a fairy tale and that has warped your understanding.

By the way, only Ray Comfort uses such poor arguments and he is regarded as an idiot even in creationist circles.

You speak as of your own opinion and think perhaps I should believe you? So I will repeat. The idea that one human female and one human male evolved at just the right time to generate the human race is preposterous.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They were guaranteed to die that day. God did not lie. He said on the day they would eat from that tree they will or shall (future) die. The day they ate from that tree they were as good as dead. Their fate was sealed. It was not removed. Here's how one translation put it. 17 "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.” Notice it says IN the day you eat from it, you WILL surely die.

The translations that I am familiar with say "on that day" It would not be the first time that the Bible was reinterpreted when Christians did not like the prior translation:

"17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

 

[YoursTrue]

Once again it appears that you have not read the myth:


"Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves."

They did not even realize that they were naked before (though why it would be wrong to be naked when it was only them and the animals that Adam did not want to have sex with I have no clue).

So maybe you think Adam could have or should have had sex with animals? After all, why not? If they evolved maybe they were still having sex with animals, hmm?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Hebrew appears to support the "on that day" translation:

Genesis 2:17 Hebrew Text Analysis

Though I would like to hear from a Hebrew scholar that is free of prejudice.

 

[YoursTrue]

The translations that I am familiar with say "on that day" It would not be the first time that the Bible was reinterpreted when Christians did not like the prior translation:

"17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

It doesn't matter really. The day they disobeyed they were going to die. Very simple.