It has to be rooted in reality

[Trackdayguy]

As some of you may know from reading some of my previous posts, I am a big fan of Bishop John Shelby Spong. His books, videos and blogs have bought some reality to my faith.

I would like to encourage all of those who have a faith, but have been disillusioned by the blindness and unreality within the evangelical church to read his new book 'Unbelievable" is a MUST read.

Bible scholar and Episcopal bishop John Shelby Spong contends that there is mounting pressure among Christians for a radically new kind of Christianity—a faith deeply connected to the human experience instead of outdated dogma. To keep Christianity vital, he urges modern Christians to update their faith in light of these advances in our knowledge, and to challenge the rigid and problematic Church teachings that emerged with the Reformation. There is a disconnect, he argues, between the language of traditional worship and the language of the twenty-first century. Bridging this divide requires us to rethink and reformulate our basic understanding of God.

Unbelievable: Why Neither Ancient Creeds Nor The Reformation Can Produce A Living Faith Today, Book by John Shelby Spong (Hardcover) | chapters.indigo.ca

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As some of you may know from reading some of my previous posts, I am a big fan of Bishop John Shelby Spong. His books, videos and blogs have bought some reality to my faith.

I would like to encourage all of those who have a faith, but have been disillusioned by the blindness and unreality within the evangelical church to read his new book 'Unbelievable" is a MUST read.

Bible scholar and Episcopal bishop John Shelby Spong contends that there is mounting pressure among Christians for a radically new kind of Christianity—a faith deeply connected to the human experience instead of outdated dogma. To keep Christianity vital, he urges modern Christians to update their faith in light of these advances in our knowledge, and to challenge the rigid and problematic Church teachings that emerged with the Reformation. There is a disconnect, he argues, between the language of traditional worship and the language of the twenty-first century. Bridging this divide requires us to rethink and reformulate our basic understanding of God.

Unbelievable: Why Neither Ancient Creeds Nor The Reformation Can Produce A Living Faith Today, Book by John Shelby Spong (Hardcover) | chapters.indigo.ca

From the way I see it, the core Message of Baha'u'llah is that Religion is progressive and the Message is renewed.

History shows It has never been men that have update God Messages, it has always been a Prophet or Messenger sent by God that has given the new message.

Thus how will another view from another man change what Christ said and what authority is given to make that change?

Regards Tony

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, thanks. Spong is a heretic and if we followed his advice, we'd end up as atheists. There wouldn't be any Christianity, except perhaps some distant quint idea that Jesus was just "a nice guy who said some nice things". He should've left the clergy when he realized he no longer believed in the Nicene Creed and should've been removed when he started telling people not to believe in it. Tradition will always have meaning.

 

[Trackdayguy]

From the way I see it, the core Message of Baha'u'llah is that Religion is progressive and the Message is renewed.

History shows It has never been men that have update God Messages, it has always been a Prophet or Messenger sent by God that has given the new message.

Thus how will another view from another man change what Christ said and what authority is given to make that change?

Regards Tony

God can use anybody to bring his wisdom Tony, Bahá'u'lláh was just another man, its only his followers that have placed him on a pedestal and created another religion which we didn't need.

 

[Windwalker]

No, thanks. Spong is a heretic and if we followed his advice, we'd end up as atheists.

Why would you say that? I don't believe all the things that Spong is pointing out is wrong too, but that certainly does not make me an atheist. Why should it?

It's really just a matter of cleaning off the dross to see the pure gold underneath? What's wrong with that? Does the church dome need a good removal of the patina in order to see the brilliant copper dome beneath every now and then? I think it's a bit overdue for some cleaning.

There wouldn't be any Christianity, except perhaps some distant quint idea that Jesus was just "a nice guy who said some nice things".

Is that what you fear you'll hear if the things Spong points to are true? I don't think that's how he feels about it. I certainly don't.

Tradition will always have meaning.

Traditions evolve. And yes, they do have meaning. But not when they can't speak to anyone anymore who are in an ever-expanding modern world.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

God can use anybody to bring his wisdom Tony, Bahá'u'lláh was just another man, its only his followers that have placed him on a pedestal and created another religion which we didn't need.

With that comment the post can not progess, as you would also be saying that Bishop John Shelby Spong has created ideas that are not needed.

Regards Tony

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why would you say that? I don't believe all the things that Spong is pointing out is wrong too, but that certainly does not make me an atheist. Why should it?

It's really just a matter of cleaning off the dross to see the pure gold underneath? What's wrong with that? Does the church dome need a good removal of the patina in order to see the brilliant copper dome beneath every now and then? I think it's a bit overdue for some cleaning.


Is that what you fear you'll hear if the things Spong points to are true? I don't think that's how he feels about it. I certainly don't.


Traditions evolve. And yes, they do have meaning. But not when they can't speak to anyone anymore who are in an ever-expanding modern world.

Major points of Christian theology are "dross"???

 

[Trackdayguy]

With that comment the post can not progess, as you would also be saying that Bishop John Shelby Spong has created ideas that are not needed.

Regards Tony

Not at all, Idea's are desperately needed, just NOT another religion that revolves around a man.

Spong is just a man that is seeking to bring some new and fresh idea's to an outdated church. As far as I'm aware he has no interest in forming a new religion, lets hope his fans dont turn him into some demi-god

 

[Windwalker]

Major points of Christian theology are "dross"???

Such as?

 

[Trackdayguy]

Such as?

Im not sure who your questions are directed at

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Such as?

The virgin birth, Resurrection and whatever other points of traditional Christian doctrine he denies and wants everyone to give up.

 

[Windwalker]

Im not sure who your questions are directed at

He was suggesting Spong is against major doctrine. I was asking him which ones is he referring to? Are you familiar with where Spong does this?

 

[Windwalker]

The virgin birth, Resurrection and whatever other points of traditional Christian doctrine he denies and wants everyone to give up.

Are you sure he is saying you should just throw it in the trash, instead of saying something a little more rational such as thinking of other ways to imagine these things, then the typical literal ways so prevalent in these modern times. Isn't he just simply suggesting instead that we understand the symbolic nature of them, and be less fixated on hard and fast doctrinal interpretations of these mysteries?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Are you sure he is saying you should just throw it in the trash, instead of saying something a little more rational such as thinking of other ways to imagine these things, then the typical literal ways so prevalent in these modern times. Isn't he just simply suggesting instead that we understand the symbolic nature of them, and be less fixated on hard and fast doctrinal interpretations of these mysteries?

I don't pay much attention to him outside of what's on Wikipedia and what I've seen in the media. So you tell me.

 

[Trackdayguy]

He was suggesting Spong is against major doctrine. I was asking him which ones is he referring to? Are you familiar with where Spong does this?

Im sorry but Im not following you. Who is suggesting ?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not at all, Idea's are desperately needed, just NOT another religion that revolves around a man.

Spong is just a man that is seeking to bring some new and fresh idea's to an outdated church. As far as I'm aware he has no interest in forming a new religion, lets hope his fans dont turn him into some demi-god

Well God doeth as He Willeth.

So a man is revising, refreshing with new ideas the recorded Word of God in the Bible.

How has that worked in the past, did that create Christian unity?

Regards Tony

 

[Trackdayguy]

In my opinion Tony the Bahai faith is the least divisive of all the major religions. Primarily because they accept the voices and words of just about everybody.

All Spong is trying to do is get the hard liners who insist that the Bible "(is the word of God) is to listen, think and change the lens they look through. Interesting they call him a liberal, when in truth he's way more radical that all of them put together.

Christianity has to change, its already hemorrhaging millions of people from its doors, most of those haven't given up on God, they've given up on an out of touch church that wont listen to reason or logic.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

He was suggesting Spong is against major doctrine. I was asking him which ones is he referring to? Are you familiar with where Spong does this?

I think @Trackdayguy has had me on ignore for months. I think he got upset during a discussion with me around when he joined and put me on ignore. He never replies to my replies to him.

 

[Tumah]

Tradition will always have meaning.

Oh yeah?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Oh yeah?

YEAH.