Science standards under threat in Arizona

[BilliardsBall]

Humans say that god created man in his own image. Humans not god. Have you ever seen god to determine what animal or plant most looks like god?

Can you think of a distinctive or two of humans? Do animals and plants sin (rebel against humans and God and conscience)?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Please explain how Christians, not JFJudaism, misunderstand almost half the chapter:

“Seventy sevens are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

25 “Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The prophecies have come true. The "anointed" the JFJudaism downplay is called Anointed THE PRINCE, just like Messiah is called PRINCE OF PEACE in Isaiah 9, etc.

You do not understand how you messed up. Jesus did not end sin. The prophesy fails if that was a goal.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Can you think of a distinctive or two of humans? Do animals and plants sin (rebel against humans and God and conscience)?

One cannot rebel against what does not exist.

 

[ecco]

Humans say that god created man in his own image. Humans not god. Have you ever seen god to determine what animal or plant most looks like god?

Some humans say that man created god in his own image.

That's why Indian gods look like Indians.
That's why African gods look like Africans.
That's why Chinese gods look like Chinese.
That's why Jesus was painted to look like a 10th century white man.

 

[ecco]

Please explain how Christians, not JFJudaism, misunderstand almost half the chapter:

I don't have to explain it.

Daniel 9 is the "Old Testament" of Christians. Daniel 9 is in the original Jewish version of Jewish holy scripture.

You want to believe Daniel 9 is prophecy. The people who know more about the original version of Daniel 9 than you do, say you are, putting it nicely, wrong.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with original ideas on your part. You are merely parroting the beliefs of Jews for Jesus.

Jews for Judaism completely refutes the prophecy notions.

Who to believe? A group with a lot of failed ideas about Jesus (Jews for Jesus and you) or people that know a lot more about their holy scripture. It's really a very easy decision.

 

[Bear Wild]

Can you think of a distinctive or two of humans? Do animals and plants sin (rebel against humans and God and conscience)?

Since I do not believe in sin that is a difficult answer. There are creative and destructive forces in the world just as there are creative and destructive behaviors. Both animals and plants can be creative and destructive. What we would hope from an animal with as complex a brain as humans is positive force for our world. Unfortunately humans have become to oriented to consuming and destroying the world they live in. If you want to call that sin that's your term. There are humans that are trying to be more responsible and respect the world to be a creative force. We just need to spread the word to respect not just humanity but the rest of the natural world also.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You do not understand how you messed up. Jesus did not end sin. The prophesy fails if that was a goal.

No, you don't understand that JFJudaism says "Wasn't Jesus" but has no alternative for the ending of sin in the 1st century CE. Saying it's not Jesus begs the question, "Since JFJ says the four alternative decrees all put the timeline of prophecy in the 1st century, when/how did the God who prophesied in the Hebrew scriptures do so and so and such and such..."

It takes spiritual understanding (guess I can pray for you?) to "get it"--one reason I'm a Christian is that Jews suggested the prophecies don't fit Jesus Christ yet they surely do!

 

[BilliardsBall]

One cannot rebel against what does not exist.

Your conscience doesn't exist?!

 

[BilliardsBall]

I don't have to explain it.

Daniel 9 is the "Old Testament" of Christians. Daniel 9 is in the original Jewish version of Jewish holy scripture.

You want to believe Daniel 9 is prophecy. The people who know more about the original version of Daniel 9 than you do, say you are, putting it nicely, wrong.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with original ideas on your part. You are merely parroting the beliefs of Jews for Jesus.

Jews for Judaism completely refutes the prophecy notions.

Who to believe? A group with a lot of failed ideas about Jesus (Jews for Jesus and you) or people that know a lot more about their holy scripture. It's really a very easy decision.

Sorry, JFJ does NOT refute that Daniel 9 is prophetic for two reasons:

1) They give the four possible dates of the "decree" then affirm the 69 shabuas are years, making 483 years into the 1st century CE, when Jesus died
2) Half the chapter is "God says this time will be used to end human sin and kill the anointed Prince, seal up the end..."

 

[BilliardsBall]

Since I do not believe in sin that is a difficult answer. There are creative and destructive forces in the world just as there are creative and destructive behaviors. Both animals and plants can be creative and destructive. What we would hope from an animal with as complex a brain as humans is positive force for our world. Unfortunately humans have become to oriented to consuming and destroying the world they live in. If you want to call that sin that's your term. There are humans that are trying to be more responsible and respect the world to be a creative force. We just need to spread the word to respect not just humanity but the rest of the natural world also.

"What we would hope from an animal with as complex a brain as humans is positive force for our world." WHY? Why is that "right" and the excesses of Pol Pot or Stalin "wrong"?

Your conscience is the prod that tells you we are to affirm life--indeed, we lost eternal life in the Garden.

 

[Woberts]

Why is that "right" and the excesses of Pol Pot or Stalin "wrong"?

That's debatable. IMO Stalin did more good than bad.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, you don't understand that JFJudaism says "Wasn't Jesus" but has no alternative for the ending of sin in the 1st century CE. Saying it's not Jesus begs the question, "Since JFJ says the four alternative decrees all put the timeline of prophecy in the 1st century, when/how did the God who prophesied in the Hebrew scriptures do so and so and such and such..."

It takes spiritual understanding (guess I can pray for you?) to "get it"--one reason I'm a Christian is that Jews suggested the prophecies don't fit Jesus Christ yet they surely do!

But sin did not end in the 1st century CE. Whether one is Christian or not "sin" still exists. That was your error.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your conscience doesn't exist?!

Wow, my conscience is God. You better bow down to my conscience. Who knows what it will do to you.

 

[ecco]

Sorry, JFJ does NOT refute that Daniel 9 is prophetic for two reasons:

1) They give the four possible dates of the "decree" then affirm the 69 shabuas are years, making 483 years into the 1st century CE, when Jesus died
2) Half the chapter is "God says this time will be used to end human sin and kill the anointed Prince, seal up the end..."

ecco previously...

That isn't just my opinion. There is a well thought out, well written rebuttal here...
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/daniel-9-a-true-biblical-interpretation/
It concludes:
This is a brief explanation of Daniel chapter 9. Any attempt to apply this chapter to Jesus is erroneous and wrought with mistranslations and misinterpretations.​

I'm done beating this very dead horse.

 

[SkepticThinker]

"What we would hope from an animal with as complex a brain as humans is positive force for our world." WHY? Why is that "right" and the excesses of Pol Pot or Stalin "wrong"?

Your conscience is the prod that tells you we are to affirm life--indeed, we lost eternal life in the Garden.

Because the former (acting as a positive force) benefits human beings, while the latter (genocide and war) harms them.
Pretty simple.

 

[BilliardsBall]

That's debatable. IMO Stalin did more good than bad.

Jews and Christians had too many rel

ecco previously...

That isn't just my opinion. There is a well thought out, well written rebuttal here...
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/daniel-9-a-true-biblical-interpretation/
It concludes:
This is a brief explanation of Daniel chapter 9. Any attempt to apply this chapter to Jesus is erroneous and wrought with mistranslations and misinterpretations.​

I'm done beating this very dead horse.

I read the entire JFJ article. It supposes as fact that some prophecy is being made that had to have been scheduled by God for the first century CE. ABOUT HALF THE CHAPTER says God will kill the Messiah to take away the world's sin. If not Jesus, WHO?!

 

[BilliardsBall]

But sin did not end in the 1st century CE. Whether one is Christian or not "sin" still exists. That was your error.

Then go ahead and give your alternative explanation for what did happen in the first century, here:

>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<

 

[BilliardsBall]

Because the former (acting as a positive force) benefits human beings, while the latter (genocide and war) harms them.
Pretty simple.

You are still begging the question. Atheists just a few years ago weren't claiming the moral high ground, and admitted all their concepts of good and evil are highly subjective. Even your "do less harm" is not how evolution and the animal kingdom operates.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then go ahead and give your alternative explanation for what did happen in the first century, here:

>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<

What do you mean? You made a failed claim about sin disappearing. What "alternative" is needed?

 

[Audie]

Seems to me that you can make any
prediction come true if you just say it did