A warning and a call to Baha’is from Baha’u’llah’s Universal House of Justice

[TransmutingSoul]

So then why try to divide the humanity by suggesting that monotheism is somehow the superior vision when it comes to human spirituality?

The Message from Baha'u'llah is for those that wish to accept it, as is any Faith.

For those that accept this message, this is what Baha'u'llah has asked of us; "..Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. Deal ye one with another with the utmost love and harmony, with friendliness and fellowship. He Who is the Day Star of Truth beareth Me witness! So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth..."

For those that wish to practice the Faith they have, you now know that a Bahai will try to implement that above advice in their lives. We are still learning.

Regards Tony

 

[Marcion]

The Message from Baha'u'llah is for those that wish to accept it, as is any Faith.

Why did you spell the words 'message' with a capital 'M' and 'faith' with capital 'F', please?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I’m not really trying to change anyone except myself.

For example should we encourage and support a religious bigot to continue being a religious bigot? The answer to the question seems clear enough. No.

Take care of yourself. The world will take care of itself. There is bigotry everywhere. Even the mad insistence on one God is a bigotry.

So as a Hindu, you would look to guide your community away from any of those issues?

If you answer yes, then you are suppportive of what we also try to do. If you answer no, then your comments to me may have some value in your eyes, but not mine and I would still help my community steer away from all these issues.

I am not a social reformer with a mission to change the whole world and institute a particular faith on every one. I am a simple family man. I keep away from things that I consider as social evils as as mandated by Hindu 'dharma'. If asked, I will explain my views. I am not supportive of the disruption that you may create in the world with your new faith. We have had enough of them.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Would you call yourself a fundamentalist type of Baha'i?

I'm happy to be called a Baha'i and leave it that. Fundamentalist has many connotations, most of them negative. Why do you ask?

 

[Aupmanyav]

How are the Muslims seen in ‘tolerant’ India? Indigenous or outsiders?

Indian citizens following any faith are ours. That includes among others, Shias, Bahais and Ahmadiyyas who have historically never faced any problem in India. They participate in every walk of life.

.. this is what Baha'u'llah has asked of us; "..Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. Deal ye one with another with the utmost love and harmony, with friendliness and fellowship. He Who is the Day Star of Truth beareth Me witness! So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth..."

No. No blah, blah. Just tell us whether God is one or there may be many?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Take care of yourself. The world will take care of itself. There is bigotry everywhere. Even the mad insistence on one God is a bigotry.

Some atheists, polytheists, and hindus have all the same faults as the monotheists they love to disparage. What's new? We're all prejudiced in our own way. Acknowledging it is a step to overcoming it. Denial doesn't make it go away.

 

[Marcion]

I'm happy to be called a Baha'i and leave it that. Fundamentalist has many connotations, most of them negative. Why do you ask?

I was just wondering after reading part of this study this morning:
Fundamentalism in the Contemporary US Baha'i Community

 

[Marcion]

Some atheists, polytheists, and hindus have all the same faults as the monotheists they love to disparage. What's new? We're all prejudiced in our own way. Acknowledging it is a step to overcoming it. Denial doesn't make it go away.

I didn't suggest that monotheists "have faults", but rather that if you want to unify humanity, it does not help to stress the supposed superiority of monotheism over other viewpoint.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Some atheists, polytheists, and hindus have all the same faults as the monotheists they love to disparage.

What we disparage is your denial of variety and not your belief in one God. Hindus will be least concerned whether you worship many, one or none.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I was just wondering after reading part of this study this morning:
Fundamentalism in the Contemporary US Baha'i Community

Juan Cole was a member of the Baha'i Faith for many years but never at ease with it and often very critical of it. He resigned over 20 years ago. His article is a polemic against the Baha'i faith.

Moojan Momen provided a more balanced critique of Juan Cole's paper.

Division and Unity in the Baha'i Community

 

[Dawnofhope]

I didn't suggest that monotheists "have faults", but rather that if you want to unify humanity, it does not help to stress the supposed superiority of monotheism over other viewpoint.

My comment was to another. Vinayaka and Aup have been critical of the Baha'i Faith at times to the point of hostility. Other times they are more moderate and reasoned and the banter is somewhat better natured.

We are all entitled to our perspectives and the Baha'is have just as much right to monotheism as polytheists and atheists have a right to their belief. I have no problem with others having differing POVs. We all believe what we do for a reason. What works for each of us is clearly different and that's fine.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What we disparage is your denial of variety and not your belief in one God. Hindus will be least concerned whether you worship many, one or none.

Diversity is clearly evident for all to see. I don't deny you are an atheist as Vinayaka is a Saivite Hindu as I am a Baha'i. What's the problem?

 

[Aupmanyav]

None.

 

[Marcion]

We are all entitled to our perspectives and the Baha'is have just as much right to monotheism as polytheists and atheists have a right to their belief. I have no problem with others having differing POVs. We all believe what we do for a reason. What works for each of us is clearly different and that's fine.

Yes, it is fine with me that you think that monotheism is the best view.
I am neither monotheist, nor an atheist or a polytheist, but a neohumanistic panentheist.
However, I find monotheism a very limited viewpoint, so that is why I could never see the Baha'i movement as an effective force to unify people.

If you want to present a unifying viewpoint for people to rally around, then you should come with a vision that everyone can feel at home with and not just the Abrahamic part of humanity. If it is merely your intention to make people less hostile towards each other's path or faith then you should not mention the idea of 'One Common Faith'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If you want to present a unifying viewpoint for people to rally around, then you should come with a vision that everyone can feel at home with and not just the Abrahamic part of humanity. If it is merely your intention to make people less hostile towards each other's path or faith then you should not mention the idea of 'One Common Faith'.

Well, do you want to make him into another Bahaullah?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, it is fine with me that you think that monotheism is the best view.
I am neither monotheist, nor an atheist or a polytheist, but a neohumanistic panentheist.
However, I find monotheism a very limited viewpoint, so that is why I could never see the Baha'i movement as an effective force to unify people.

I don't know too much about beliefs such as Panentheism.

Panentheism - Wikipedia

From what I read it doesn't sounds particularly contradictory to Baha'i theological concepts.

I like what Buddha had to say when He discouraged excess metaphysical speculation and encouraged a path of practical living. For Baha'is God is an unknowable essence.

If you want to present a unifying viewpoint for people to rally around, then you should come with a vision that everyone can feel at home with and not just the Abrahamic part of humanity. If it is merely your intention to make people less hostile towards each other's path or faith then you should not mention the idea of 'One Common Faith'.

When viewed from the perspective of practical living, spiritual practices and moral principles I have no problem seeing the close interconnections of religion. If others want to see religions as irreconciliably different, that's fine. I get it.

 

[Marcion]

I don't know too much about beliefs such as Panentheism.
From what I read it doesn't sounds particularly contradictory to Baha'i theological concepts.

I like what Buddha had to say when He discouraged excess metaphysical speculation and encouraged a path of practical living. For Baha'is God is an unknowable essence.

When viewed from the perspective of practical living, spiritual practices and moral principles I have no problem seeing the close interconnections of religion. If others want to see religions as irreconciliably different, that's fine. I get it.

The difference between Buddhism and Panentheism is that Panentheism thinks that the Supreme Consciousness is within (all of) creation as well as beyond it whereas Buddha remained silent on the subject.

Religions are different only as long as you see them as defined separated units.
It is the existence and recognition of religions that keep us divided.

The unity between people goes beyond so-called religions or faiths to the level of Dharma.
So if you want to unify people it should happen through the concept of their shared human Dharma (Manava Dharma) and not through some things that religions may or may not share. We don't need "One Human Faith" but need to become aware that we all share the same human Dharma.

Which exact cult (set of practices for spiritual growth) you follow does not matter as long as it furthers your human Dharma.

 

[Vinayaka]

Vinayaka and Aup have been critical of the Baha'i Faith at times to the point of hostility.

Hostility is in your mind. Frustration, sure. My attempts at getting some Baha'i to see the bigger picture outside of the monotheistic Baha'u'llah box they can't escape is frustrating at times yes. But I've managed to lower my expectations some. Same as dealing with fundamentalists of any variety.

 

[Jim]

I’m not really trying to change anyone except myself.

Maybe I misunderstood. I took that to mean that you are trying to change yourself. If that’s true, and if you don’t mind telling me, if it isn’t too personal and private, you could help me by discussing what you are doing now to try to change yourself.

I believe if we’re simply listening to others and trying to make sense of their worldview then it reduces conflict though doesn’t eliminate it.

Again, if you don’t mind telling me, it would help me for you to discuss your efforts and progress over the years, in learning to listen to others and trying to make sense of their worldview.

I suspect the principle online is similar to what happens in our neighbourhoods. We end up being part of a group with those who enjoy talking to each other and have similar interests.

What I’m hoping to see is some kind of social development in online neighborhoods, that parallels what we’re doing online, with online parallels to all of the core activities and everything else in the framework for action. Now that I think of it, when “One Common Faith” says that the framework for action is the best response for us to the challenge it discusses, that might actually apply as much to our online activities as to our offline activities, maybe at least as a place to start.

 

[Jim]

Juan Cole was a member of the Baha'i Faith for many years but never at ease with it and often very critical of it. He resigned over 20 years ago. His article is a polemic against the Baha'i faith.

Moojan Momen provided a more balanced critique of Juan Cole's paper.

Division and Unity in the Baha'i Community

Momen’s writings about the feuding look like vindictive smear campaigns to me, masquerading as scholarship, just as much as Cole’s.