Christians and Jews Who Sanction Homosexual Sex

[Skwim]

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Knowing how much god hates homosexual sex, and that it's almost a given that every homosexual couple engage in it, how can any Christian denomination or Jewish movement sanction same-sex marriages, in effect sanctioning homosexual sex?

Those religious Abrahamic religious organizations that sanction same-sex marriage.

Alliance of baptists
Conservative Judaism
Episcopal Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Reform Judaism
United Church of Christ (Congregational Church)
And perhaps the United Methodist Church (We'll know in February, 2019)

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[Estro Felino]

During Confession, my Catholic priest said that gay monogamous relationships aren't sinful...obviously dancing around it..but he was pretty clear.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I don't condemn such folk or reinforce the behavior. Any judgement is up to God.

 

[Skwim]

I don't condemn such folk or reinforce the behavior. Any judgement is up to God.

And he's made that judgement.

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

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[Ellen Brown]

And he's made that judgement.

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

.​

I don't live that way, nor do I judge. God will bring it all to it's rightful conclusion.

 

[metis]

During Confession, my Catholic priest said that gay monogamous relationships aren't sinful...obviously dancing around it..but he was pretty clear.

Which is actually a true statement that the priest made according to the N.T. as it is the action that is forbidden, not the impulse.

As for me, I don't believe that whomever goes to bed with whomever is any of my business.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

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Knowing how much god hates homosexual sex, and that it's almost a given that every homosexual couple engage in it, how can any Christian denomination or Jewish movement sanction same-sex marriages, in effect sanctioning homosexual sex?

Those religious Abrahamic religious organizations that sanction same-sex marriage.

Alliance of baptists
Conservative Judaism
Episcopal Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Reform Judaism
United Church of Christ (Congregational Church)
And perhaps the United Methodist Church (We'll know in February, 2019)

.​

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Well first, whether God hates it or not is highly debatable. Second, there's a difference between sanctioning something and merely acknowledging it's none of your business, or not your place to condemn.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

During Confession, my Catholic priest said that gay monogamous relationships aren't sinful...obviously dancing around it..but he was pretty clear.

That's contrary to the catechism

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

And he's made that judgement.

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

.​

You assume the first read through apparent meaning of the English translation accurately reflects the meaning of the author, who assumed contextual knowledge on the part of the reader and wrote in a different language during a period of different social conventions.

Many people don't.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

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Knowing how much god hates homosexual sex, and that it's almost a given that every homosexual couple engage in it, how can any Christian denomination or Jewish movement sanction same-sex marriages, in effect sanctioning homosexual sex?

Those religious Abrahamic religious organizations that sanction same-sex marriage.

Alliance of baptists
Conservative Judaism
Episcopal Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Reform Judaism
United Church of Christ (Congregational Church)
And perhaps the United Methodist Church (We'll know in February, 2019)

.​

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Apparently those are more liberal denominations that do not interpret the bible literally. Which is a good thing.

 

[Skwim]

Well first, whether God hates it or not is highly debatable.

After saying

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)
​

you doubt whether or not he hates it? Just what does god have to do to convince you he hates something?

Second, there's a difference between sanctioning something and merely acknowledging it's none of your business, or not your place to condemn.

Yup, but this isn't situation here.

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[Skwim]

You assume the first read through apparent meaning of the English translation accurately reflects the meaning of the author, who assumed contextual knowledge on the part of the reader and wrote in a different language during a period of different social conventions.

Many people don't.

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[Kangaroo Feathers]

????????????????????????????????????

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I thought it was fairly clear. Many scholars don't think that that passage in the original text means what it appears to mean in most English translations. IIRC, many scholars say it's about temple prostitution, rather than consentual homosexuality as we understand it today.

Frankly, I don't have a dog in the fight either way. I'm certainly not an ancient Hebrew sociolinguistic scholar, and I'm not making an argument either way, just pointing out that the "clobber passages" are not universally accepted to mean what they appear to mean at a casual glance in a third hand translation, removed from all relevant social context.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

After saying

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)
​

you doubt whether or not he hates it? Just what does god have to do to convince you he hates something?

do remember Leviticus was written by humans. It's not infallible Word of God, and even if it were, it wasn't written in English, translation can be tricky.

Yup, but this isn't situation here.

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Says you. It's pretty much the exact reason I don't believe in impeding homosexual relationships.

 

[Skwim]

Apparently those are more liberal denominations that do not interpret the bible literally. Which is a good thing.

That would be my guess as well. However, (rhetorically) what else would god mean when he says:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)


The law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, men who practise homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine. (1 Timothy. 1:9-10)



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[Kangaroo Feathers]

That would be my guess as well. However, (rhetorically) what else would god mean when he says:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)


The law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, men who practise homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine. (1 Timothy. 1:9-10)



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Well for a start " god" didn't say those things. Have you made the mistake of assuming all Christians are Sola Scriptura KJV literalist fundamentalists? Most of us, in fact, aren't.

 

[Ellen Brown]

do remember Leviticus was written by humans. It's not infallible Word of God, and even if it were, it wasn't written in English, translation can be tricky.Says you. It's pretty much the exact reason I don't believe in impeding homosexual relationships.

I'm fairly sure that Jesus did not come to have adolescent arguments about sex.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I'm fairly sure that Jesus did not come to have adolescent arguments about sex.

Quite. Indeed, Jesus is recorded condemning divorce several times, never once even mentioning homosexuality. It seems disingenuous to me, therefore, when certain Christians get over the top worked up about homosexuality but simply shrug "meh" over divorce.

 

[ChanaR]

Today's Jews (some of them) may sanction gay sex. But this is not the way it traditionally was. Here is the truth.

In the days that the LORD gave the Law to Moshe, the pagan nations around them had the ethic that you did what felt good. People had sex with their spouses, with prostitutes, with the opposite sex, with the same sex, with hermaphrodites, with animals, with children, with their mothers, with their uncles, with their sisters and brothers, with one person, with orgies. Judaism came along and said, we should reserve sex for marriage because sex is powerful and can tear people apart; furthermore sex between spouses is a holy thing--we are not hamsters who will do it every time we feel attraction. Thus the idea of fidelity within marriage was born, and the sublimation of the sexual urge. Although some of this has given way, much of it still holds sway in society.

And that is the truth of the matter.

Not all gays have gay sex. Some hold to the Judeo-Christian ethic and choose to sublimate and be celibate. Same with straights who are single or divorced. Breaking news -- not everyone has sex, and they live very happy fulfilled lives.

 

[Skwim]

Today's Jews (some of them) may sanction gay sex.

There are four main divisions of Judaism: Orthodox, Conservative, Reconstructionist, and Reform, and 18% of all Jews belong to Conservative Judaism, and 35% belong to Reform Judaism. That's over half of all Jews (53%) who believe in sanctioning homosexual acts with same-sex marriage.

But this is not the way it traditionally was.

It doesn't matter. We're not talking about Jewish practices long ago, but TODAY.

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