Revelation 21:1

[TrueBeliever37]

Here's what I given in the Thread.
Revelation 21:1
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea"

Upon reading this, What do you make of it

John said, he saw a new heaven and a new earth.
Then John said, for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away,
What does John mean by ( the first heaven and the first earth pass away?

The first heaven and the first earth, was before this heaven and Earth came into existence.
The first heaven and the first earth, is where the dinosaurs bones came from.

This was way before any human beings or anything that we have in this earth existed.

What you say doesn't make sense. If the dinosaurs bones are here, then it has to be the same earth they were on. If the first earth passed away then so would the bones. Also there is still a sea on this earth, so it can't be the new earth that John saw.

 

[Faithofchristian]

What you say doesn't make sense. If the dinosaurs bones are here, then it has to be the same earth they were on. If the first earth passed away then so would the bones. Also there is still a sea on this earth, so it can't be the new earth that John saw.

The same earth, but different time periods.
What you have is , the first earth age of the dinosaurs, and the second earth age as we live in now.
The third earth age is when Christ Jesus comes to establish his kingdom here on earth.

What makes you think that the dinosaurs bones would pass away, unto which the dinosaurs bones were buried in the Earth.
And are God's witnesses of that first earth age.
Further more, do you know why
God destroyed that first earth age.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

The same earth, but different time periods.
What you have is , the first earth age of the dinosaurs, and the second earth age as we live in now.
The third earth age is when Christ Jesus comes to establish his kingdom here on earth.

What makes you think that the dinosaurs bones would pass away, unto which the dinosaurs bones were buried in the Earth.
And are God's witnesses of that first earth age.
Further more, do you know why
God destroyed that first earth age.

It's not a question of different ages of the earth. It's a question regarding a new earth. The new earth doesn't have a sea.

 

[Faithofchristian]

It's not a question of different ages of the earth. It's a question regarding a new earth. The new earth doesn't have a sea.

The first heaven and Earth had no sea, The new heaven and Earth will have a sea.

there were no sea on earth in the first heaven and Earth, But yet there was a sea.

Have you any idea as to where the sea was located at. Seeing there was no sea on earth, But there was a sea.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

The first heaven and Earth had no sea, The new heaven and Earth will have a sea.

there were no sea on earth in the first heaven and Earth, But yet there was a sea.

Have you any idea as to where the sea was located at. Seeing there was no sea on earth, But there was a sea.

You need to re-read Rev. 21:1 It says the first heaven and earth were passed away. He saw a new heaven and earth, and there was no more sea. Meaning there used to be a sea.

I guess I am thru discussing this with you

 

[Faithofchristian]

You need to re-read Rev. 21:1 It says the first heaven and earth were passed away. He saw a new heaven and earth, and there was no more sea. Meaning there used to be a sea.

I guess I am thru discussing this with you

Can you explain when the first heaven and the first earth were, when was this ?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Can you explain when the first heaven and the first earth were, when was this ?

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:10 the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. Genesis 1:28 let them have dominion over the fish of the sea...

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that YHWH God made the earth and the heavens.

The earth mentioned in the scriptures above would be the first, and notice there are seas - although I am pretty sure you will find some way to disagree.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:10 the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. Genesis 1:28 let them have dominion over the fish of the sea...

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that YHWH God made the earth and the heavens.

The earth mentioned in the scriptures above would be the first, and notice there are seas - although I am pretty sure you will find some way to disagree.

First of all, What does the book of Genesis have to do with Revelation 21:1


Ok, God created the heaven and the earth in the beginning.
Now can you explain exactly when God created the heaven and the earth.

If you had notice, In Genesis 1:1 it doesn't say when God created the heaven and the earth, only in the beginning.
No doubt you haven't a clue or idea when that was. All because throughout the Bible, There's nothing said when God created the heaven and the earth.
I know, but you will try and twist things in the Bible to say what you want it to say.

But then you would have to give what book of the Bible and chapter and verses. That would say, when God created the heaven and the earth. But then there's nothing written saying when God created the heaven and the earth.

If you had notice the heaven and the earth was already there, way before God created anything else.
So the question is, When did God create the heaven and the earth ?

 

[Fool]

First of all, What does the book of Genesis have to do with Revelation 21:1

the body of adam was made of clay, a heap, a mound. Adam was the son of god. The body is a temple of the indwelling Spirit. God breathed into Adam the breath of life, the Spirit. revelation is showing you the same thing. the dwelling place of God is within the body temple, the ark of the covenant, the temple of jerusalem. you are the light of the world, a city set on a hill cannot be hid.

rev 21:1 is the realization by the self of the spirit descending into matter. matter in the case of genesis was water.

unless you are born of spirit and water, like jesus, you can not be born again. this is another way of seeing genesis 1:3 when spirit moves upon the water, the matter. born the 2nd time as in the resurrection of the spirit. there is the physical birth and the spiritual birth. rev 21:1 is showing you the conception of spirit in water. the culmination is rev 21:7 creation, offspring,

Ok, God created the heaven and the earth in the beginning.
Now can you explain exactly when God created the heaven and the earth.

not relevant to rev 21:1 per se but God inhabits is inherent in all of it's offspring, creation. just as the fruit of the tree holds the makeup of the tree from which it comes the tree grows from the potential seed into a tree

If you had notice, In Genesis 1:1 it doesn't say when God created the heaven and the earth, only in the beginning.
No doubt you haven't a clue or idea when that was. All because throughout the Bible, There's nothing said when God created the heaven and the earth.
I know, but you will try and twist things in the Bible to say what you want it to say.

creation is a beginning of something formed. it is the beginning of something rising from something. destruction is that creation collapsing into some thing. heaven and earth arose from God. from implies some thing becoming some thing else. it can be said that in the beginning god transformed itself into heaven and earth.

But then you would have to give what book of the Bible and chapter and verses. That would say, when God created the heaven and the earth. But then there's nothing written saying when God created the heaven and the earth.

when and where have to do with space/time. eternal is not relevant to such a concept. space and time denote contrast, measurable things, things having dimensions, definitions et al.

If you had notice the heaven and the earth was already there, way before God created anything else.
So the question is, When did God create the heaven and the earth ?

a beginning isn't always here any more/less than an ending is always there. if they are both there/here then eternity is NOW. an infinite, eternal, absolute has no contrast of beginning vs ending. in eternity there is no ability to measure something against something else. its just the same thing transforming from something to something ad infinitum.

i am that i am

energy transforms continuously. it cannot be created/destroyed except in forms. the outward appearance of form might appear static temporally but the action is dynamic eternally

 

[Faithofchristian]

the body of adam was made of clay, a heap, a mound. Adam was the son of god. The body is a temple of the indwelling Spirit. God breathed into Adam the breath of life, the Spirit. revelation is showing you the same thing. the dwelling place of God is within the body temple, the ark of the covenant, the temple of jerusalem. you are the light of the world, a city set on a hill cannot be hid.

rev 21:1 is the realization by the self of the spirit descending into matter. matter in the case of genesis was water.

unless you are born of spirit and water, like jesus, you can not be born again. this is another way of seeing genesis 1:3 when spirit moves upon the water, the matter. born the 2nd time as in the resurrection of the spirit. there is the physical birth and the spiritual birth. rev 21:1 is showing you the conception of spirit in water. the culmination is rev 21:7 creation, offspring,


not relevant to rev 21:1 per se but God inhabits is inherent in all of it's offspring, creation. just as the fruit of the tree holds the makeup of the tree from which it comes the tree grows from the potential seed into a tree

creation is a beginning of something formed. it is the beginning of something rising from something. destruction is that creation collapsing into some thing. heaven and earth arose from God. from implies some thing becoming some thing else. it can be said that in the beginning god transformed itself into heaven and earth.



when and where have to do with space/time. eternal is not relevant to such a concept. space and time denote contrast, measurable things, things having dimensions, definitions et al.


a beginning isn't always here any more/less than an ending is always there. if they are both there/here then eternity is NOW. an infinite, eternal, absolute has no contrast of beginning vs ending. in eternity there is no ability to measure something against something else. its just the same thing transforming from something to something ad infinitum.

i am that i am

energy transforms continuously. it cannot be created/destroyed except in forms. the outward appearance of form might appear static temporally but the action is dynamic eternally

Your still way off base. The book of Genesis has absolutely positively nothing to do with Revelation 21:1, Nor does Adam and Eve have anything to do with the book of Revelation 21:1.

If the book of Genesis and Adam and Eve had anything to do with Revelation 21:1,
I would haved quoted them In the Thread.

 

[Fool]

Your still way off base. The book of Genesis has absolutely positively nothing to do with Revelation 21:1, Nor does Adam and Eve have anything to do with the book of Revelation 21:1.

If the book of Genesis and Adam and Eve had anything to do with Revelation 21:1,
I would haved quoted them In the Thread.

i never stated anything about eve. i stated what Jesus said, unless you



4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


genesis 1:2 talks about creation being born of water and spirit.

rev 21:1 is a new creation, just like the first creation. spirit moving on water(matter).

the no need for outer light mentioned in 21:23 is because of the inner light of christ brings understanding.


being physically seeing is not necessarily being spiritually perceiving, understanding. SEE?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Revelation 21:1--"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the
first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea"

Upon reading this, What do you make of it?

Heavens can mean the authorities, the governments...please read Ephesians 3:10.

The Earth can refer to the people on the planet, society in general. Please read Genesis 11:1.

And sea, as at Isaiah 57:20, is likened to wicked people, the boisterous, more turbulent part of society....Psalms 37:10-11 says the wicked will "be no more."

You might find this OP interesting:
"New Heavens and New Earth" - Why Destroy the Old?

Take care. Questions are welcome.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Heavens can mean the authorities, the governm
ents...please read Ephesians 3:10.

The Earth can refer to the people on the planet, society in general. Please read Genesis 11:1.

And sea, as at Isaiah 57:20, is likened to wicked people, the boisterous, more turbulent part of society....Psalms 37:10-11 says the wicked will "be no more."

You might find this OP interesting:
"New Heavens and New Earth" - Why Destroy the Old?

Take care. Questions are welcome.

Revelation 21:1, Has nothing to do with what you quoted from other books of the bible.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Revelation 21:1, Has nothing to do with what you quoted from other books of the bible.

Why would you say that, when those verses I quoted -- and surrounding context -- tie it all together reasonably and harmoniously?

Is it because I said it, as a JW?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Why would you say that, when those verses I quoted -- and surrounding context -- tie it all together reasonably and harmoniously?

Is it because I said it, as a JW?

Nope, it has nothing at all to do with your being a JW, further more, I didn't even know you were a JW's, So it had nothing to do with your being a JW's.

In Revelation 21:1, notice the first thing John said ( And I saw a new heaven and a new
earth ) Notice the next thing John said ( for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away )
In the nature of what John is saying, We know that John is not speaking about this present Earth that we live in. If John was, Why would John refer to this earth as the first earth, So we know that John was not referring to this earth age that we live in.
All because John said ( for the first heaven and the first earth ( passed away )

So we know that John is in no way speaking about this earth age, Seeing John said the first heaven and the first earth
( Passed away )

So seeing the first heaven and Earth pass away, So that leaves us with this earth age that we live in, as being the second heaven and Earth age.

So what was the first heaven and the first earth like ?

Well we have the dinosaurs bones as left overs from that first heaven and first earth.
And many other such things that are left overs from that first heaven and first earth age.
Many people have no understanding about the first earth age.
So the earth is going thru three stages.
The first stage of the earth, was when the dinosaurs were here on earth.

Then we come to the second stage of the earth, Which we live in.

And the third stage of the earth, is when Christ Jesus comes to renew the earth back to it's orginal form and establish his kingdom here on earth.

So what you have is, Three Stages that the earth will go thru.
1st stage of the earth -- Dinosaurs

2nd stage of the earth -- We humans live in.

3rd stage of the earth -- When Christ Jesus returns to Renew the earth and establish his kingdom here on earth.

So what you have is, The Three Earth ages. The Earth is now in the 2nd phase history of the earth.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Nope, it has nothing at all to do with your being a JW, further more, I didn't even know you were a JW's, So it had nothing to do with your being a JW's.

In Revelation 21:1, notice the first thing John said ( And I saw a new heaven and a new
earth ) Notice the next thing John said ( for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away )
In the nature of what John is saying, We know that John is not speaking about this present Earth that we live in. If John was, Why would John refer to this earth as the first earth, So we know that John was not referring to this earth age that we live in.
All because John said ( for the first heaven and the first earth ( passed away )

So we know that John is in no way speaking about this earth age, Seeing John said the first heaven and the first earth
( Passed away )

So seeing the first heaven and Earth pass away, So that leaves us with this earth age that we live in, as being the second heaven and Earth age.

So what was the first heaven and the first earth like ?

Well we have the dinosaurs bones as left overs from that first heaven and first earth.
And many other such things that are left overs from that first heaven and first earth age.
Many people have no understanding about the first earth age.
So the earth is going thru three stages.
The first stage of the earth, was when the dinosaurs were here on earth.

Then we come to the second stage of the earth, Which we live in.

And the third stage of the earth, is when Christ Jesus comes to renew the earth back to it's orginal form and establish his kingdom here on earth.

So what you have is, Three Stages that the earth will go thru.
1st stage of the earth -- Dinosaurs

2nd stage of the earth -- We humans live in.

3rd stage of the earth -- When Christ Jesus returns to Renew the earth and establish his kingdom here on earth.

So what you have is, The Three Earth ages. The Earth is now in the 2nd phase history of the earth.

Well, I appreciate you taking the time. Though I don’t see how it correlates to Peter’s words at 2 Peter 3:5-13. Peter referred to the Flood destroying the old heavens and earth.

When you find the same phrase in the Bible, such as “New Heaven and New Earth”, sometimes it’s beneficial to search for a unifying theme between them, tying them together while keeping in mind the different aspects mentioned in each account.

Take care.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Well, I appreciate you taking the time. Though I don’t see how it correlates to Peter’s words at 2 Peter 3:5-13. Peter referred to the Flood destroying the old heavens and earth.

When you find the same phrase in the Bible, such as “New Heaven and New Earth”, sometimes it’s beneficial to search for a unifying theme between them, tying them together while keeping in mind the different aspects mentioned in each account.

Take care.

The flood of water, that 2nd Peter
Chapter 3 is talking about, is not the flood of Noah's.
This flood of water was way before the flood of Noah's and way before Adam and Eve were created.
The old heaven and Earth that 2nd Peter is referring to, Is that first earth age of the dinosaurs.
The new heaven and New earth that John is referring to in Revelation 21:1, is when Christ Jesus returns and renews the earth back to it's original form and establish his kingdom here on earth.

 

[tayla]

Revelation 21:1--"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the
first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea"

For me, I look forward to spending eternity in a new perfect body, in fellowship with God in a utopian world having no pain, suffering, death, sin, or evil; a magical miraculous world (the new heavens and new earth). But there will still be an ocean.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

For me, I look forward to spending eternity in a new perfect body, in fellowship with God in a utopian world having no pain, suffering, death, sin, or evil; a magical miraculous world (the new heavens and new earth). But there will still be an ocean.

It’s interesting the way God phrases the statement recorded at Revelation 21:5a...it says: And the One seated on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new."

Notice, not ‘all new things’. This Planet, is still beautiful....it just needs cleaning up. — Psalms 115:16; Isaiah 45:18; Isaiah 11:6-9. (Vs.9)

 

[Faithofchristian]

For me, I look forward to spending eternity in a new perfect body, in fellowship with God in a utopian world having no pain, suffering, death, sin, or evil; a magical miraculous world (the new heavens and new earth). But there will still be an ocean.

But before anyone can enter God's kingdom, they will have to go thru the tribulation first to enter God's kingdom.