Zero Probability of Evolution. Atheism wrong?

[Truly Enlightened]

Wow, I don't understand where that came from?
I wasn't talking about anyone in particular just in general and how the Christian religion condemns good people who hadn't found god.
If I misunderstood your post, I'm sorry.

This post was meant for Audie. My bad, senior moment. Don

 

[Audie]

Are you a young Asian lawyer, that also studied archeology, and loved to corrected other people's grammar, syntax, and their use of words? Your writing style seems very familiar to me. Did you use a different name on another forum? Don

Nope. I did not study archaeology. As for noting others'
poor English skills, I sure did not succeed in correcting yours.

I do hope you will actually take to heart some
constructive criticism, even if it is not always couched
in the delicate phraseology you'd prefer.

I have been home with the flu, and may be even
less inclined to pamper than usual.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Nope. I did not study archaeology. As for noting others'
poor English skills, I sure did not succeed in correcting yours.

I do hope you will actually take to heart some
constructive criticism, even if it is not always couched
in the delicate phraseology you'd prefer.

I have been home with the flu, and may be even
less inclined to pamper than usual.

Okay, and what about recently passing the bar? Correcting other posters use the English language(regardless if you failed with me)? And, if you used another name on a different forum, what was it? I may attack what a person says(regardless of their syntax and grammar), but I don't use personal details to discredit and embarrass them, and then call it constructive criticism. Why are you so concerned about my mental health, or deciding what is in my best interest? You are under no obligation to respond to anything I say. If I commit a straw man, point it out. If my grammar is wrong, point it out. If you disagree with what I say, then lets hear your opinion. Not to simply make snardy, arrogant, and insensitive accusations

Are you now saying that I need to go over all my posts, to find evidence that will support your assessment of my mental state? Of course this would be for my own good, "or not". It would be like asking someone to read the Bible to find God. I'm afraid I"m far too old in the tooth for this kind of introspection. As long as there is at least one person that may disagree with your insensitive assessment, I'm happy the way I am.. So, if your are the person that I believe you are, stop stalking me, and find another victim to test your mantle. Are you "TAKO"?

Again, please keep personal information about me or anyone else, out of the open forum. It has nothing to do with my belief that the central theme supporting each belief, myth, and superstition, stays the same. In some beliefs, there is only one God. In another multiple Gods. In another there is a Holy Spirit only. In another there is Mary, God, and the Holy spirit. In one, services are held in Latin, and in another services are held in Greek. All beliefs have their own central belief theme, that supports their own religiosity. Do you think that the role of Mary will change in Catholicism? Do you think the Mormons apocalyptic New Testament beliefs will change over time? Do you think that the Sunni's and Shiites will change their beliefs in the prophet Mohammad's secession? Do you think that believers will eventually agree with non-believers? These are the some of the non-changes that I'm talking about. Don

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It would be, but as you know, most conversions happen to younger people, and per the Bible, if you deny God long enough, "you're done".

Put another way, why does last-minute mercy bother you?

Because it means your actions ultimately don't matter, morality is meaningless, God is evil, and the Christian doctrine enables and justifies people behaving like monsters.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Good questions! I'll answer them:

1. We are made in God's image, and God has some of our attributes and vice versa, but as for things like vengeance, clearly He's VERY patient! I would have sent a lot of skeptics to perdition already, but God is VERY VERY VERY patient and etc.

2. It is not logical on its face for Christ to be killed for the sins He created. It is logical that we cannot perfect ourselves morally, share in sin, and need a redeemer. But Christ was crucified for love, not just logic. I'll be honest, when I sin, I usually don't blame God for making me weak or creating sin. When I sin, I think "I should not have used my free will that way." How can skeptics argue against transferring our sin to Christ, saying "I want to take the blame for my own actions," then in the next sentence, blame God for their actions?!

3. I agree with you about the universality of those ideas, however, where Christianity differs from other beliefs--it's not doing good that gets you to Heaven, it's perfection, imputed by Jesus from the cross!

4. I've thought before about the Bible being a book to pacify folks, but:

a. It goes against the Roman pantheon, condemns Roman belief and Roman practice, and says the Romans crucified the Lord of Glory
b. The Jews who wrote it were considered seditionists and troublemakers, by Rome
c. The Jews who wrote it faced persecution from fellow Jews, too
d. The MEN who wrote it spoke for the uplifting of women and children, lived on limited incomes, forbade prostitution and polygamy, and died as martyrs
etc.

When you say we are made in God's image, do you mean physically, spiritually, metaphorically, psychological, or culturally? I don't think there is one person on this planet that can literally represent the image of a God. You claim that God is patient. Why? He gave us the "free-will" to think for ourselves? How or Why would a God need human attributes? I think it is man that creates the image of God, not the other way around. Especially, since each culture has its own image of God. We have no idea what the image of God is.

There are 613 commandments(Jewish, Mosaic Law), that tell people what to do(248), and what not to do(365). This is a clear method for controlling the mass's behavior. Roman Emperor Constantine ascribed his success to his Christian beliefs. He also feared divine vengeance from God if he allowed other beliefs to threaten his. He convened and commissioned the First Council of Nicaea, to reconcile and resolve the question of whether the Son(Jesus) was "begotten" by the father(god), or created from nothing(Virgin Birth). The former does not have a beginning, and the latter does. This question was decided, by men, in favor of the latter. The Bible was modified and edited accordingly. There are many other examples of missing books, unknown authors, modified scriptures, added and deleted books, and mistakes. This clearly indicates that the Bible was composed and written by man. Whether they were inspired or not is irrelevant.

I think that the idea of Pious servitude, and following the man made rules of a 2700 year old foreign book represents for me an artificial life. At best it is selfish if you believe you will have an everlasting payday. At worst it is a tragic waste of one's normal developments, including retarding the ability to excel. The other avenue to heaven is through deception and lying to avoid being sent to the other place. Conclusion, only dishonest, mal-developed, dumb liars are in heaven. Don

 

[BilliardsBall]

When you say we are made in God's image, do you mean physically, spiritually, metaphorically, psychological, or culturally? I don't think there is one person on this planet that can literally represent the image of a God. You claim that God is patient. Why? He gave us the "free-will" to think for ourselves? How or Why would a God need human attributes? I think it is man that creates the image of God, not the other way around. Especially, since each culture has its own image of God. We have no idea what the image of God is.

There are 613 commandments(Jewish, Mosaic Law), that tell people what to do(248), and what not to do(365). This is a clear method for controlling the mass's behavior. Roman Emperor Constantine ascribed his success to his Christian beliefs. He also feared divine vengeance from God if he allowed other beliefs to threaten his. He convened and commissioned the First Council of Nicaea, to reconcile and resolve the question of whether the Son(Jesus) was "begotten" by the father(god), or created from nothing(Virgin Birth). The former does not have a beginning, and the latter does. This question was decided, by men, in favor of the latter. The Bible was modified and edited accordingly. There are many other examples of missing books, unknown authors, modified scriptures, added and deleted books, and mistakes. This clearly indicates that the Bible was composed and written by man. Whether they were inspired or not is irrelevant.

I think that the idea of Pious servitude, and following the man made rules of a 2700 year old foreign book represents for me an artificial life. At best it is selfish if you believe you will have an everlasting payday. At worst it is a tragic waste of one's normal developments, including retarding the ability to excel. The other avenue to heaven is through deception and lying to avoid being sent to the other place. Conclusion, only dishonest, mal-developed, dumb liars are in heaven. Don

You are very thoughtful in your assessment. May I point out a few details?

* the arguments for the NT apply to the OT--the Romans had a Pax Romana except in Israel, where zealots wanted to kill Romans for pushing down the OT Law you're citing (saying the OT is a Roman conspiracy to control people makes no sense)

* Christians argue that the Bible Law frees people rather than enslaves them (commandments like have sex with your spouse, avoid adultery, divorce, drug abuse--take off one day a week from work, avoid unhealthy foods, etc.)

* I've studied the origins of the Bible with care--the Jewish OT IS the Christian OT--there are no "missing books", but it's what we have that is compelling

* why is the Bible invalid because it's 2,700 years old? I read novels a century old that are compelling, I read about gentlemen and ladies with better manners than today's manners that are compelling, I read Bible wisdom literature and learn about human nature today...

 

[BilliardsBall]

Because it means your actions ultimately don't matter, morality is meaningless, God is evil, and the Christian doctrine enables and justifies people behaving like monsters.

I've never met any person--or even heard of any such person--who said, "Gonna rape and kill and steal then love Jesus at the last minute, man . . . "

My children could say horrible things to me for 50 years, then repent, and I'd give them a hug. Why should you say God wouldn't do this for His own children?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Except that it wasn't. As we've discussed before.

This page, which I'd not yet shared with you, will help: Prophecy Fulfilled: Israel Becomes A Nation In 1948

 

[BilliardsBall]

What are you rambling about? You ask a question, i answered it, you put the answer down using what you consider christian ethics, i showed you those ethics have a pretty poor track record so say its ok for atheists to fail because Christians fail?

Your lot are failing worse so, using your argument, it shows the christian standard of morality is very poor indeed, by your reckoning, a sin.

Thanks for your input

I'm asking why you bring up "the bad morality of Christians" rather than addressing the bad morality of skeptics. You, like many skeptics I know, would end a marriage if the love/feelings/sex wasn't there, or money or something else. Sad!

 

[ChristineM]

I'm asking why you bring up "the bad morality of Christians" rather than addressing the bad morality of skeptics. You, like many skeptics I know, would end a marriage if the love/feelings/sex wasn't there, or money or something else. Sad!

Actually you brought it up, i just countered with facts..

The facts that Christians are more likely to end a marriage than any other

You were determined to diss atheist by using sin as your sticks and stones. It failed because you didn't research your claim and hence don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Audie]

I'm asking why you bring up "the bad morality of Christians" rather than addressing the bad morality of skeptics. You, like many skeptics I know, would end a marriage if the love/feelings/sex wasn't there, or money or something else. Sad!

Tsk tsk, just making things up and pointing fingers wildly.

Tot ally ignorant of the facts.



Atheists Are 0.07% of the Federal Prison Population, Threatening Fact for Christian Fundamentalists

Atheists Are 0.07% of the Federal Prison Population, Threatening Fact for Christian Fundamentalists
It's a big disruption to the Christian right argument that you need a belief in God to live morally.


Atheists/Atheism and Divorce Rates/ Statistics Vs. Christians


ATHEISM AND DIVORCE

Very little else has produced as much euphoria in atheists than Christian researcher, George Barna's announcement that Born Again and other Christians have a very high rate of divorce, while atheists have the lowest rate. The divorce rates they published were the following: Jews: 30%; Born Again Christians: 27%; other Christians: 24% -- atheists only 21%. [1]


Definition of bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

 

[AManCalledHorse]

Actually you brought it up, i just countered with facts..

The facts that Christians are more likely to end a marriage than any other

You were determined to diss atheist by using sin as your sticks and stones. It failed because you didn't research your claim and hence don't know what you are talking about.

Actually you brought it up, i just countered with facts..

The facts that Christians are more likely to end a marriage than any other

You were determined to diss atheist by using sin as your sticks and stones. It failed because you didn't research your claim and hence don't know what you are talking about.

Can you suport your claim of Christians are more likely to end a marriage than any other?
Christians make up nearly a 33% of the world population, atheist maybe 1% if you are lucky. So its logical Christians are the largest group of people in the world which makes it look like they do many things more than the others because they out number others, atheist in particular by at least 33-to-1 and that's a high estimate, )probably more near 34-to-0.8.)
Using ratios can you show the divorce rate amongst Christians compared to atheist?

 

[Audie]

Can you suport your claim of Christians are more likely to end a marriage than any other?
Christians make up nearly a 33% of the world population, atheist maybe 1% if you are lucky. So its logical Christians are the largest group of people in the world which makes it look like they do many things more than the others because they out number others, atheist in particular by at least 33-to-1 and that's a high estimate, )probably more near 34-to-0.8.)
Using ratios can you show the divorce rate amongst Christians compared to atheist?

It is so much better to take a sec to google than to just invent figures, dont you think?


Find a Therapist

Phil Zuckerman Ph.D.The Secular Life
How Many Atheists Are There?
Hundreds of millions

Posted Oct 20, 2015

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Before we get to the numbers and percentages, let’s cover some quick definitions. An atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in the existence of God or gods. An agnostic is someone who isn’t sure if there is a God or not, or who doesn’t feel like he or she (or anyone) can have any valid information on the matter, and thus, thinks that it is impossible to say there is a God, or that there isn’t. Both atheists and agnostics are non-theists: they lack a belief in a deity. So how many people are we talking here? A lot.

According to the latest international survey data, as reported by Ariela Keysar and Juhem Navarro-Rivera in the recently published Oxford Handbook of Atheism, there are approximately 450-500 million non-believers in God worldwide, which amounts to about 7% of the global adult population. And according to the Pew Research Center, if we broaden the category to include all non-religious people in general — those unaffiliated adults who do not identify with any religion — we’re talking 1.1 billion people, which equals about 16.5% of the global adult population. As such, “non-religious” is actually the third largest “religion” in the world, coming only behind Christianity (in first place) and Islam (in second). Thus, there are more secular men and women on planet earth — many of whom are atheists and agnostics — than there are Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons, Sikhs, Jains, or Jews.

 

[AManCalledHorse]

It is so much better to take a sec to google than to just invent figures, dont you think?


Find a Therapist

Phil Zuckerman Ph.D.The Secular Life
How Many Atheists Are There?
Hundreds of millions

Posted Oct 20, 2015

• SHARE
• TWEET
• EMAIL
• MORE

Before we get to the numbers and percentages, let’s cover some quick definitions. An atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in the existence of God or gods. An agnostic is someone who isn’t sure if there is a God or not, or who doesn’t feel like he or she (or anyone) can have any valid information on the matter, and thus, thinks that it is impossible to say there is a God, or that there isn’t. Both atheists and agnostics are non-theists: they lack a belief in a deity. So how many people are we talking here? A lot.

According to the latest international survey data, as reported by Ariela Keysar and Juhem Navarro-Rivera in the recently published Oxford Handbook of Atheism, there are approximately 450-500 million non-believers in God worldwide, which amounts to about 7% of the global adult population. And according to the Pew Research Center, if we broaden the category to include all non-religious people in general — those unaffiliated adults who do not identify with any religion — we’re talking 1.1 billion people, which equals about 16.5% of the global adult population. As such, “non-religious” is actually the third largest “religion” in the world, coming only behind Christianity (in first place) and Islam (in second). Thus, there are more secular men and women on planet earth — many of whom are atheists and agnostics — than there are Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons, Sikhs, Jains, or Jews.

Your 16% includes Agnostic and atheist. Agnostic isn't atheist. So your 16% quote is already thrown out. Feel free to Google more.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your 16% includes Agnostic and atheist. Agnostic isn't atheist. So your 16% quote is already thrown out. Feel free to Google more.

What makes you think that agnostics are not atheists? Most are. There are some theist agnostics, but the vast majority are atheistic agnostics. Perhaps you should try to understand the terms that you are using. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods. Most agnostics lack that belief, therefore they are also atheists.

 

[Audie]

Your 16% includes Agnostic and atheist. Agnostic isn't atheist. So your 16% quote is already thrown out. Feel free to Google more.

It is not "my" 16% and the topic whether faith improves behaviour.

Notice figures in my earlier post.

But never mind, you will doubtless believe as you want to.

 

[ChristineM]

Can you suport your claim of Christians are more likely to end a marriage than any other?
Christians make up nearly a 33% of the world population, atheist maybe 1% if you are lucky. So its logical Christians are the largest group of people in the world which makes it look like they do many things more than the others because they out number others, atheist in particular by at least 33-to-1 and that's a high estimate, )probably more near 34-to-0.8.)
Using ratios can you show the divorce rate amongst Christians compared to atheist?

Google "highest divorce rate by country"

US with 70% population of Christians and a 2% population of atheist is 3rd

highest divorce rates by country - Google Search

And the statistics are percentage not total population so no need to make excuses

Yes we know the cia state 2%, that's just to keep you American Christians contents.

Seems they and you forgot to count China with a populatioforgot.3 billion, half of whom are atheist.

And Europe with 700 million and 25% atheist.

The actual figure, in reality, (not Christian make believe) is closer to 18 or 20% of world population

 

[AManCalledHorse]

Google "highest divorce rate by country"

US with 70% population of Christians and a 2% population of atheist is 3rd

highest divorce rates by country - Google Search

And the statistics are percentage not total population so no need to make excuses

Yes we know the cia state 2%, that's just to keep you American Christians contents.

Seems they and you forgot to count China with a populatioforgot.3 billion, half of whom are atheist.

And Europe with 700 million and 25% atheist.

The actual figure, in reality, (not Christian make believe) is closer to 18 or 20% of world population

According to the last poll Christians are near 33% of the world, number #1. I didn't ask you what country has more or if Christians have more. I asked can you give me ratios for Christian divorces compared to atheist divorces. Those are the only numbers that I consider relevant.
For example if 2.3 billion Christians divide down to 1 in 50 and 600 million atheist divide down to 1 in 23, atheist have a higher divorce rate because they are out numbered so much.

 

[AManCalledHorse]

It is not "my" 16% and the topic whether faith improves behaviour.

Notice figures in my earlier post.

But never mind, you will doubtless believe as you want to.

I googled and seen the same figures you saw. Agnostic isn't atheist. The 16% figure was for agnostic and atheist.

 

[ChristineM]

Can you suport your claim of Christians are more likely to end a marriage than any other?
Christians make up nearly a 33% of the world population, atheist maybe 1% if you are lucky. So its logical Christians are the largest group of people in the world which makes it look like they do many things more than the others because they out number others, atheist in particular by at least 33-to-1 and that's a high estimate, )probably more near 34-to-0.8.)
Using ratios can you show the divorce rate amongst Christians compared to atheist?

Another couple of notes

Christians are about 70% of the US population and about 80% of the us prison population
Atheists are about 2% of the us population and 0.07% of the us prison population.


Which means if you threw the entirely of atheists out of America you would lose less than 0.1% of the prison population and 93% of the American academy of science


Ain't percentages great???