Origins of god/gods

[Sha'irullah]

Since we humans first appeared, the world was surrounded by unexplained phenomena: the rise and set of the sun and moon; the ever-changing weather, including seasons, storms and other natural disasters; as well as other things. Once human intellect reached the point of being able to comprehend time as having a past, present, and future, man realized that they would someday die which was most likely horrific and a quite depressing fact for early humans. The idea that these unexplained phenomena were controlled by possibly sympathetic Spirits, and that their psyche would survive bodily death as an immaterial entity was comforting. Those who were able to buy into this comfort woo-woo would be better able to get on with their harsh and brief lives. Evolution therefore created the first gods. A possible date for these events could be the first anatomically modern humans 150,000 years ago, or maybe the time of the Cro-magnons and the behavioral revolution 40,000 years ago.

There is nothing comforting about my religion and I have depression. I simply find it asinine to even assert this as most religions offer no guaranteed comfort after death. I am a theist and I do not even think any god truly loves us and if anything made our lives dismal. Religion is very complicated and to pin it down to these points is comforting for you since you don't believe in any religion to begin with. But ultimately it doesn't express the religious which is a failing of anthropologists and historians who must look through the world in a strongly secular light.

 

[Muffled]

Since we humans first appeared, the world was surrounded by unexplained phenomena: the rise and set of the sun and moon; the ever-changing weather, including seasons, storms and other natural disasters; as well as other things. Once human intellect reached the point of being able to comprehend time as having a past, present, and future, man realized that they would someday die which was most likely horrific and a quite depressing fact for early humans. The idea that these unexplained phenomena were controlled by possibly sympathetic Spirits, and that their psyche would survive bodily death as an immaterial entity was comforting. Those who were able to buy into this comfort woo-woo would be better able to get on with their harsh and brief lives. Evolution therefore created the first gods. A possible date for these events could be the first anatomically modern humans 150,000 years ago, or maybe the time of the Cro-magnons and the behavioral revolution 40,000 years ago.

I believe there is not likely any proof of what people believed so far in the past. Some groups invent gods to explain things but that does not mean that every instance of a god comes from that type of origin and certainly not that the one true God had any origin except for when He first interacted with humans and we have no record of that.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Ok, so your saying NO HUMANS AT ALL believed in God because they percieved evidence? Or had experiences with apparitions?

So, you speak for ALL humans? You know ALL the reasons humans believe in God? And that reason is just ONE reason, for COMFORT?

It's always easier to critique other people's beliefs rather than your own.

But this problem is far greater for atheists- how does a person question a personal belief... they don't even acknowledge as such?-

Refusing to admit having any belief is the ultimate comfort blanket

 

[Muffled]

Are you sure? Can you demonstrate some essential difference between "the spirit world," and the workings of a human brain misfiring?

I believe people are not very good at assessing the difference. I once had a mental patient converse with me rationally for a while and then say that I was broadcasting thoughts into his head. No doubt he thought he was hearing something but I definitely was not broadcasting thoughts into his head. It would have been fun to test him to see if he was actually hearing my thoughts or only imagining it. His explanation was speculation and so often speculations are not true.

 

[Muffled]

"I met Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson last week." That was my actual experience, I haven't made it up.

Do you believe me?

I do not believe you. I believe Elvis had been dead long enough to have been reborn as another person and therefore would not be available to experience.

 

[Muffled]

We now know that behavioral modernity extends to 100,000 years at least.
Oldest "Art Studio" Found; Evidence of Early Chemistry

While the fashion of cave art leads to better preservation, it seems clear now that body painting and body ornamentation was quite sophisticated and we'll developed since the beginning of modern human lineage.


Burial of the deceased with grave goods is a sure sign of belief in afterlife. And that too is attested from 100,000 years. This, along with more disputed signs of religious beliefs in Neanderthals and Homo Naledi, suggest that belief in supernatural actually predates modern humans and may have started as early as 400,000 years.

Paleolithic religion - Wikipedia

I believe we associate that kind of burial with a belief in the afterlife but there is no way to be sure about it.

 

[Altfish]

I do not believe you. I believe Elvis had been dead long enough to have been reborn as another person and therefore would not be available to experience.

Why do you believe I am lying but others who have visions aren't? What is the standard by which you judge True/False?

 

[sayak83]

I believe we associate that kind of burial with a belief in the afterlife but there is no way to be sure about it.

Whatever happened to comparing Hinduism with Bible by the way?

 

[Jollybear]

Your response is anecdotal. It's often much easier for people to believe someone's testimony as opposed to understanding complex data.

The use of anecdotal evidence to draw a conclusion is like using the NBA all-star teams to estimate the average height of Americans.

If you are basing your claims on anecdotal experience, then any and everything that can’t be explained must be because aliens or god did it!

I didnt say God or aliens do everything we dont understand.

But, when you have millions, YES MILLIONS of near death experiences and out of body experiences and apparitions and other spiritual experiences, theres a point you have to say theres something to this, there not ALL LIERS.

 

[Prometheus85]

I am a theist and I do not even think any god truly loves us and if anything made our lives dismal

There is nothing comforting about my religion and I have depression. I simply find it asinine to even assert this as most religions offer no guaranteed comfort after death. I am a theist and I do not even think any god truly loves us and if anything made our lives dismal. Religion is very complicated and to pin it down to these points is comforting for you since you don't believe in any religion to begin with. But ultimately it doesn't express the religious which is a failing of anthropologists and historians who must look through the world in a strongly secular light.

You say your a thiest, but don’t believe god truly loves us and if anything made our lives dismal.

So that would make u a
Nay-Theist

Your not a atheist or agnostic you seem to be aware of the existence of the gods (or god) you just refuse to worship them, or to "believe" in them in any strong Spiritual sense beyond merely acknowledging the fact of their existence. Perhaps you have some personal grudge against the gods for something they did? You did say god or the gods don’t truly love us and made our lives dismal.
Or is it because god or the gods don’t measure up to YOUR moral standards; perhaps your just the independent type by nature; or perhaps you simply think (or knows) there is always a bigger fish, making the search for an "all powerful" creator a pointless venture.
Or maybe it just
Alatrism?
IDK you be the judge

 

[Jollybear]

Your being absurd and illogical and I’m just gonna leave it at that.

Am i now? I simply ask you an honest, intelligent question that presses your view into a corner and instead of answering it, which would make you look better, you call me absurd and illogical?

Yea.......r.....i....g....h.....t. i think we see who the real illogical one is here.

In a nutshell, what i hear you saying is ALL humans believe in the tenents of religion for comfort and THATS the ONLY reason.

Thats what ill conclude since you REFUSE to answer my question.

Facts are, some people dont believe in religion for comfort.

 

[Prometheus85]

I didnt say God or aliens do everything we dont understand.

But, when you have millions, YES MILLIONS of near death experiences and out of body experiences and apparitions and other spiritual experiences, theres a point you have to say theres something to this, there not ALL LIERS.

You got proof/evidence for these “MILLIONS” of near death experiences? And testimonies don’t count as evidence.

 

[Prometheus85]

Am i now? I simply ask you an honest, intelligent question that presses your view into a corner and instead of answering it, which would make you look better, you call me absurd and illogical?

Yea.......r.....i....g....h.....t. i think we see who the real illogical one is here.

In a nutshell, what i hear you saying is ALL humans believe in the tenents of religion for comfort and THATS the ONLY reason.

Thats what ill conclude since you REFUSE to answer my question.

Facts are, some people dont believe in religion for comfort.

Your being illogical and absurd.

I never said humans created religion for comfort. What was comforting for them was that their soul would survive after death lunkhead.

 

[Jollybear]

Your being illogical and absurd.

I never said humans created religion for comfort. What was comforting for them was that their soul would survive after death lunkhead.

A soul surviving death is a tenent of religion. I simply am using the word religion to condense my posts so i dont have to word every verb you mentioned that is a tenent of religion.

Come on

So, to say humans believed the soul survives death was only believed in for COMFORT is the same thing as saying religion was made for comfort.

But look, who cares about the word religion.

Can ANY humans according to YOU believe the soul survives death but there reason NOT be for comfort?

And attacking me by saying im a lunkhead is not answering my question.

 

[Nakosis]

Nah humans didn’t believe based on what they precieved as evidence for god. Remember early humans were surrounded unexplained phenomena. In order to explain those phenomena people had to build an idea of god or goddess.

planets, weather, sea, diseases, lightning were all attributed to the supernatural (gods)
Now you will rarely see anybody attribute gods to those, because now people know how that stuff works thanks to Science.

It's just as likely they had dreams or visions. Some becoming shaman or similar and told the tribe of these visions.

These visions provided explanation for phenomenon that seem plausible at the time.

Some of it may have started as ancestor worship. Some deceased leader who life became myth and was elevated to tribal God status.

Tribal stories came to life in visions or dreams and primitive people accepted that they had actual communication with these beings.

 

[Nakosis]

"I met Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson last week." That was my actual experience, I haven't made it up.

Do you believe me?

Maybe, it's possible. I've had weirder visions. I believe the subconscious mind is capable of creating such experiences.

 

[Nakosis]

I agree with both statements.

Although, i dont think God was invented, i believe we are invented by God. We are Gods creation, God is not our creation.

I suspect you believe some Gods were invented by man. Just not any of the ones you happen to believe in.

 

[Prometheus85]

A soul surviving death is a tenent of religion. I simply am using the word religion to condense my posts so i dont have to word every verb you mentioned that is a tenent of religion.

Come on

So, to say humans believed the spul survives death was only believed in for COMFORT only is the same thing as saying religion was made for comfort.

But look, who cares about the word religion.

Can ANY humans according to YOU believe the soul survives death but there reason NOT be for comfort?

And attacking me by saying im a lunkhead is not answering my question.

Again your being illogical and absurd.

Let me break this down so your little brain can understand.

New cognitive abilities gave rise to new behaviors. For instance, autobiographical memory, the ability to project ourselves backward and forward in time, gave Early man a competitive advantage. However, it also led to understanding of mortality, spurring belief in an alternative to death. And this belief in an alternative to death made death more comforting.

As early man learnt to adapt to inhospitable habitats, having a moral high God unified early communities. And the harsher the conditions, the more likely a deity would be introduced. Im not dismissing belief but rather trying to present religious belief as an inevitable outcome of brain evolution.

 

[Jollybear]

I suspect you believe some Gods were invented by man. Just not any of the ones you happen to believe in.

Its complicated. In a general sense, yes, you are correct in your assesement of me. However, lets say a demon appeared to a primitive human and called himself God, even though i dont believe the demon is God, i still believe the demon itself exists and could have appeared to the human.

Then theres other issues of philosophical ideas of God. These are obviously not direct experiences.

But, lets say deism and theism. Both are ideas, but deism i dont believe is the REALITY, i believe theism is the reality. So, logically it follow that i believe deism is invented.

Now invented in the way im using the word at the moment dont mean the person dont truly believe in it, for they do. It just means the idea would not he real.

 

[Jollybear]

Again your being illogical and absurd.

Let me break this down so your little brain can understand.

New cognitive abilities gave rise to new behaviors. For instance, autobiographical memory, the ability to project ourselves backward and forward in time, gave Early man a competitive advantage. However, it also led to understanding of mortality, spurring belief in an alternative to death. And this belief in an alternative to death made death more comforting.

As early man learnt to adapt to inhospitable habitats, having a moral high God unified early communities. And the harsher the conditions, the more likely a deity would be introduced. Im not dismissing belief but rather trying to present religious belief as an inevitable outcome of brain evolution.

Instead of your constant ad hominem attack on me "lunkhead", "little brain" and as in other threads "dishonest". Why dont you just give a straight answer?

I dont want a break down (aka, a rehash wording of what you already believe) i want you to answer my question.

Here it is again.

Do all humans find belief in an afterlife comforting?

Why are you so hesitant to answer this simple question? Whats the deal here?