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Is God a Mystery that Will Never be Solved?

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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
so I....get to replace .....myself......with another .....ME

I......shall live forever
Click to expand...

No. It is not 'I' that is replacing itself so that it can go on ad nauseum. It does not have that power. "I" is just a temporary illusory existence in time and space. It is That which is NOT in time and space, which is playing Itself as 'I' that is doing it., but "I" thinks IT is the doer. The actor dons a new mask of the character he plays; the character does not go on when the drama ends. But the actor does go on, because it is real. It has been present all the while, but the character that is "I" has been lost in Identification, and has lost sight of That.
 
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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
No. It is not 'I' that is replacing itself so that it can go on ad nauseum. It does not have that power. "I" is just a temporary illusory existence in time and space. It is That which is NOT in time and space, which is playing Itself as 'I' that is doing it., but "I" thinks IT is the doer. The actor dons a new mask of the character he plays; the character does not go on when the drama ends. But the actor does go on, because it is real. It has been present all the while, but the character that is "I" has been lost in Identification, and has lost sight of That.
Click to expand...
and you....think....

this illusion (as you call it) disappear with no effect

as if you were never born

THAT can be arranged
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
and you....think....

this illusion (as you call it) disappear with no effect

as if you were never born

THAT can be arranged
Click to expand...

There is no 'you' that was ever born, nor that will die.

Who is it that lives? Who is it that dies?

As long as you are attached to a self, you will leave a trace. Once you understand how this works, you can exist in this world without leaving a trace. That involves being fully present, here, now. The practice of non-doing and leaving no trace is something developed spiritual people practice. Otherwise, there is karma that is created. There are two paths: the karma-driven path, which is the path most of mankind traverses, and the Way-driven path, which is transcendent of karma. "I" is the karma-creator; the doer. "I" is on the wheel of birth and rebirth in an endless fatuity. The awakened man sees the dilemma and does what is necessary to get off of the wheel and gain liberation. Maintaining ideas of a future heavenly reward where "I" goes to after death is to continue existence on the wheel of birth and rebirth. The only, and I mean ONLY, reality that exists is right where we are at this very moment. So it is prudent to pay attention at every moment. But, you see, birth and death, the wheel, and the "I" that lives in that existence are illusory.* To awaken to the eternal Present Moment is the dissolution of the illusion, just as awakening from a dream is the cause of it's vanishing. Having said, that, you will still have to deal with any negative karma you created while still in the state of Identification, but you will address it from an entirely different perspective.

*For this reason, we have the Buddhist koan of:

"If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him!"

ALL BECOMING IS AN ILLUSION, but we suffer because we belive it to be real.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
There is no 'you' that was ever born, nor that will die.

Who is it that lives? Who is it that dies?



ALL BECOMING IS AN ILLUSION, but we suffer because we belive it to be real.
Click to expand...

and my birth certificate is a lie?????

and my pending grave site will not be a testimony????
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
and you deny?...the rational that Someone had to be First
Click to expand...

Your logic is flawed. There is no such 'rationale' to it. What is the premise of your argument? I only see dogma. What absolute is present where there must be a 'someone' who 'had to be' first? This makes no sense.

What I am denying is your forcing of belief into absolute truth.


EDIT: Don't get me wrong: there is something present at birth, and after death. That is your true nature.

The Human Route

Coming empty-handed, going empty-handed – that is human.
When you are born, where do you come from?
When you die, where do you go?
Life is like a floating cloud which appears.
Death is like a floating cloud which disappears.
The floating cloud itself originally does not exist.
Life and death, coming and going, are also like that.
But there is one thing which always remains clear.
It is pure and clear, not depending on life and death.
Then what is the one pure and clear thing?

The Human Route
 
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Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
Your logic is flawed. There is no such 'rationale' to it. What is the premise of your argument? I only see dogma. What absolute is present where there must be a 'someone' who 'had to be' first? This makes no sense.

What I am denying is your forcing of belief into absolute truth.


EDIT: Don't get me wrong: there is something present at birth, and after death. That is your true nature.

The Human Route

Coming empty-handed, going empty-handed – that is human.
When you are born, where do you come from?
When you die, where do you go?
Life is like a floating cloud which appears.
Death is like a floating cloud which disappears.
The floating cloud itself originally does not exist.
Life and death, coming and going, are also like that.
But there is one thing which always remains clear.
It is pure and clear, not depending on life and death.
Then what is the one pure and clear thing?

The Human Route
Click to expand...
nope......Someone had to be First.....in mind and heart

try thinking .....Spirit
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
nope......Someone had to be First.....in mind and heart

try thinking .....Spirit
Click to expand...

I am. But how do you get from 'Spirit', to 'Someone'? Humans are 'someones', or a 'person', because they live in the state of Identification. Identification is existence in time and space. 'Spirit' is not in time or space, and therefore does not live in Identification in Existence, but rather in Being, outside of time and space, which is precisely why Yeshua said:

"Before Abraham was, I Am",

and:

"My kingdom is not of this world"

The problem you are having is that you are seeing 'Spirit' through the distortion of your own Identification as a human, and therefore projecting your ego onto it. In psychological terms, this is known as one of the Five Egotistical States, which is called Idolatrous Love, which is not really love at all. Because you do this, you see 'Spirit' as 'first', which can only occur were it to live in time and space. Spirit is free of these constraints.

Revelation 22:13
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

...meaning it is both and therefore neither, because it is eternal, ie; beginningless and endless.

BTW, the question the Zen piece asks is not about who is first or last, but about what it is that always remains pure and clear. Can you answer?
 
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godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
you said it......and you have undone all you have ever posted

thank you
Click to expand...

No, Thief, fer gawdsakes! You are in denial, retreating back into the shell of your belief system, only to parrot over and over again the same old stale argument, which is no argument at all.

The 'I Am' referred to in my last post does NOT refer to the 'I' of Identification, that is to say, the personal self called 'I' that lives in time and space. It refers to the divine nature that is pure Being, not in time or space. It is pointing to the Universal Self, and not to the temporal self called 'I'.

You asked me to think in terms of 'Spirit', but you don't seem to understand that 'I Am' is about that same Spirit.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
godnotgod said:
No, Thief, fer gawdsakes! You are in denial, retreating back into the shell of your belief system, only to parrot over and over again the same old stale argument, which is no argument at all.

The 'I Am' referred to in my last post does NOT refer to the 'I' of Identification, that is to say, the personal self called 'I' that lives in time and space. It refers to the divine nature that is pure Being, not in time or space. It is pointing to the Universal Self, and not to the temporal self called 'I'.

You asked me to think in terms of 'Spirit', but you don't seem to understand that 'I Am' is about that same Spirit.
Click to expand...
you are ....or you are not....

and your helpless need to respond indicates.....an ego

you................are
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
you are ....or you are not....

and your helpless need to respond indicates.....an ego

you................are
Click to expand...

I was just trying to help you out of your rut, going round and round as you do. But some people cling to their rut as if it were dear life, when the reality is that it is a deadweight that will keep you in the stagnant backwater of the dogma you cherish so highly, just another ego dragging around his corpse. You are terrified of the eternal grave, and yet continue reinforcing your attachment to it. When and where do you get off?
 
godnotgod

godnotgod

Thou art That
Thief said:
I would like to speak to someone who believes in himself
Click to expand...

Why belief? Are you not certain that you are here, now? You wouldn't know that via belief, but via consciousness; that is to say, via seeing what is, rather than forming beliefs and opinions about what is.

 
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osgart

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
We are selves, all humans. Why isn't that obvious!

The self doesn't have to be egocentric. Humility is a quality of the individual self.

I'm me, you are you. Distinctly so. I delight in my individuality and uniqueness.

Why must I lose self, when self is all I am.
 
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