How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

But a squirrel, or a buzzard, has none. ??
The North American Indians knew so much more than you or I about spirits. They knew!

There is a thread running about ghosts.
I posted on it, showing pictures of orbs that appeared around a grandchild and a much loved cat after my mother died in 12/13'. She had adored both.

I have several of these pics, all unedited, all proven unaltered JPEGs, and the skeptics seem to be faltering about them. I took and exhibited photographic evidence for court cases, and can put up a sound support for their authenticity.

But if you don't believe, then you do not have an open mind, and cannot investigate individually.

Prejudice kills truth.

There are 5 Levels of Spirit

Vegetable Spirit
Animal Spirit
Human Spirit
Spirit of Faith
Holy Spirit.

This is a talk on this subject - Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 143-145

As to the Animal Spirit the power of the senses are produced and with this Spirit, "It will perceive the reality of things from that which is seen and visible, audible, edible, tangible, and that which can be smelled. After the dissociation and decomposition of the combined elements this spirit also will naturally disappear."

Thus we are all tied to this earth and all creation, to dust we return.

Mind must call on the 4th Level of Spirit, the Spirit of Faith. It is in this way we are Born again, born into the acceptance of the Holy Spirit in the age we live in.

How can we comprehend a Universe, when we only look at and from a pinhead?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Some indigenous children tragically drowned in a lake east of here. Searcher's weren't sure where to look, until eagles circled the spot to look.

I was on a property where we had Cows in one part of my life. They were home butchered by a traveling butcher.

The day before the Butcher arrived the cows were very reluctant to come into the yards for their feed of molasses, on the day it was near impossible to get them to even enter the top paddock. They knew what was to happen when they saw the Butcher.

Kindness to animals is now written in Law. Humanity will come to know that Mind permeates the Animal Spirit and in turn reflects back at us our Love and Compassion.

This is the Power of the Great Beings in all Ancient Faiths and Traditions.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I was on a property where we had Cows in one part of my life. They were home butchered by a traveling butcher.

Yes, cattle know. My father and my uncle butchered themselves. T'was one of the negative samskaras that contributed to me being a vegetarian, I'm sure. They can also take turns babysitting, with perhaps the exception of Boss Cow. But my comment to OldBadger was saying that the eagles could see the spirits of the deceased boys. (Temporarily disembodies souls , confused, but between births) Spirits exist, as he and I both know.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

OK...... so you don't really believe in spirits.
Fair enough........

What do you mean by 'the spiritual world of God?'
Is this some not really real world where spirits aren't really there, but ........ what?

I think that you use the word 'spritual' as a nice feel-good comfy word, but have absolutely no belief in or about it whatsoever.

A spirit is a spirit, not virtual.

I don't believe in spirits as mostly imagined by people, as a visible being that comes to a place or goes to another place. But I believe in it as a non-materialistic, non-location, invisible and unknowable essence of human beings.
Spiritual worlds of God, are not a place. They are another realm, unknowable to us. We only know there is a non-physical life after death. But I also believe it is impossible to understand it while we are still here in this life.
Animals have soul too, but we do not believe their soul remains after they die. They have a different kind of spirit than human.

 

[Vinayaka]

Spirit/Soul in the Holy Writings have the same meaning.

Baha'i writings. Other religions have writings too, you know. Some of us might even consider them holy, as you do for the Baha'i writings. It's not just all about Baha'i.

Tony, now that you're actually responding to me again, could you possibly look at posts 12902 and 14914 again. They were questions I had that you didn't answer, not surprisingly. (I realise you probably still think I'm being sarcastic or toying you, but again, I can assure you I honestly didn't understand what you meant.)

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, that's right. These religions are all incurable diseases. Its good to have the prejudices and antipathy of some Hindus made clear.

Some people are just more blunt in their positions. Disagree or agree, it's still easier to figure out what they mean, than people who beat around the bush, contradict themselves, or don't answer questions at all.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Prophesies... They can be made to say anything. If the Ummayads are the beast for Baha'is, then what are the corrupt popes to Protestants? Did the Catholic Church recover and repent? Why isn't the Protestant Reformation predicted?

Things that fit very well into prophecy are still happening. Especially that no one can buy or sell without the number of the beast. So prophecy won't stop being interpreted as long as there is ambiguity in the old interpretations. And there is ambiguity in the Baha'i interpretation.

The prophecies can be interpreted in different ways, albeit often inconsistently and incompletely. Look for instance into the interpretations of the revelation (where two witnesses are mentioned) by some of the Christian scholars from different denominations and see if they have a complete interpretation verse by verse. Are their interpretations compatible verse by verse with the events of verifiable history? Are they also interpreting the prophecies in Islam as well? why not? I suppose because they imagine only their own religion is true. Do Muslim Scholars interpret the Book of revelation verse by verse, or they ignore it because most of them believe it to be corrupted? But the Baha'i Central Figures have interpreted the prophecies of Shia and Sunni, Christianity and Jewish Bible extensively and fairly completely and consistently showing they match with history, in such a way that no one can refute them. Not withstanding that no traces of religious study can be found in history to attribute to the central figures of the Baha'i faith and more impressively, when Abdulbaha was giving interpretations of the chapters of Revelation, He did not stop to think how to match each verse with history. But it just flowed from His mind. Now think about the beast of Book of revelation with seven heads and ten horns, which Abdulbaha interprets as seven dominions where Islam progressed and 10 names of Ummayids. He even from His mind gave accurately the names of the seven dominions where Islam progressed in them, and the 10 names of Ummayids as well as. Now when we verify His interpretations and compare with history, we see exactly there has been seven dominions or main regions where Islam progressed during Ummayids reign as no where more or less did Islam progressed, and there are only 10 names that Ummayids had. This is of course an example intended to demonstrate He interprets all from His mind in twinkling of an eye, while accurately in a way that cannot be refuted. when I say it cannot be refuted, I do not mean everyone can believe it, but I mean one cannot prove any mismatches between history and the explanation of the prophecy described by Abdulbaha, thus, cannot prove, this prophecy was not fulfilled. Now, the important thing is to know that, it is not like He had to think how to interpret them, or having history books around him to see what matches with the prophecy. He did not study history or religion on His own before either, so it may be said He possibly used that knowledge to think how to match the prophecy with history. As there have been many people around Him all the time, and though many of His companions wrote about the days of life of Abdulbaha, they never said, Abdulbaha was reading history or religious books, and it is unlikely and virtually impossible that they missed it, or forgot to mention it in their historical accounts, even though in their historical accounts, they often mentioned many details of doings and sayings of Abdulbaha. An obviously mysterious ability that, we cannot find any one else in the history among Christians, Hindus,Muslims or anybody else to do such things. Now we have to see the differences here. How others interpret, and how Abdulbaha did. Have you seen anyone else with no prior study of history and religion, and without any traces of reading books or learning from others, interprets Prophecies and matches them with historical accounts?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The Baha'i calculation hits right on but depends on the year of the Hejira and using the Islamic lunar year calendar. ....

Yes, but the reason that lunar reckoning is used, is also consistent with the fact that Religion of Islam, uses lunar Calendar. It would not make sense if prophecies for a Religion with Lunar Calendar were given in solar reckoning.

 

[Vinayaka]

The prophecies can be interpreted in different ways, albeit not consistently and completely.

Make that more. Totally false and out to lunch, no bearing in reality at all. Other. Not interpreted at all.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Make that more. Totally false and out to lunch, no bearing in reality at all. Other. Not interpreted at all.

Thanks for catching that! I had to edit my post make a correction to my statement. it was causing misunderstanding.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Some people are just more blunt in their positions. Disagree or agree, it's still easier to figure out what they mean, than people who beat around the bush, contradict themselves, or don't answer questions at all.

Thats the kind of logic that legitamises Hindus butchering innocent Muslims, because the Muslims were worse...but yes, its a very clear statement.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, that's right. These religions are all incurable diseases. Its good to have the prejudices and antipathy of some Hindus made clear.

Pagans are much better in this respect (and Hinduism is a pagan religion). They have better acceptance of different views. Had it not been for these false religions and prophets (of course, Mormons, Bahais, Ahmadiyyas are inconsequential, unless Mitt Romney might have been the President of USA), the world would have lived in better peace.

That's the kind of logic that legitimizes Hindus butchering innocent Muslims, because the Muslims were worse .. but yes, its a very clear statement.

Butchering Muslims? We have at least 180 million of them here. It does happen once in a while, mostly when the carnage is started by Muslims.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Pagans are much better in this respect (and Hinduism is a pagan religion). They have better acceptance of different views. Had it not been for these false religions and prophets (of course, Mormons, Bahais, Ahmadiyyas are inconsequential, unless Mitt Romney might have been the President of USA), the world would have lived in better peace.

You mean you have some tolerance for religions that are like yours and no tolerance for religions followed by more than half the worlds population and can't be bothered considering anything that looks remotely Abrahamic.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Baha'i writings. Other religions have writings too, you know. Some of us might even consider them holy, as you do for the Baha'i writings. It's not just all about Baha'i.

Tony, now that you're actually responding to me again, could you possibly look at posts 12902 and 14914 again. They were questions I had that you didn't answer, not surprisingly. (I realise you probably still think I'm being sarcastic or toying you, but again, I can assure you I honestly didn't understand what you meant.)

12902? A post to Adrian

What in the world is the fire of negation? Again, I'm not a Baha'i, Tony. I don't speak Baha'ispeak.

Is it simply disagreeing with you?

No it is not about disagreeing.

The answer to this requires that I insert some quotes (with some of my words) that I have used to unfold the understanding of this topic, you may read them in this case.

It ties back to the Islamic Revelation and a "Commentary on a Verse of Rumi" which was written by Baha'u'llah for the Baha'i courier, Salman. This subject is also mentioned in the Persian Bayan.

"..The first question Baha'u'llah discusses in this commentary is how it can be that Baha'u'llah, the true promised one, has not been immediately recognized by all, and that Azali Babis, who are false claimants, remain influential. Baha'u'llah offers a kabbalistic explanation (literally "parallel/corresponding," or "received tradition").

In the previous dispensation of Islam, the witness to faith stated that "No God is there but He" (la ilaha illa huwa). The first word, "la" or "no," is negative, and it precedes the positive affirmation of God's peerlessness. Thus, in the Islamic dispensation and its wake, the "letters of negation" have triumphed over the "letters of affirmation" in the outward world. But although in the exoteric domain (intended for or likely to be understood by the general public), things are contrary to the will of the Manifestations of God, esoterically (understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest), everything is occurring according to the divine will.

In the Baha'i dispensation, however, God has removed the negative particle from before the affirmation. That is, Baha'is say "He is God," rather than "No God is there but He." This switch from precedence for the negative to precedence for the positive is apparently an omen for a brighter future in the new dispensation, and presumably a closer accord between the exoteric and esoteric worlds. The context here is the continuing negative influence of the Islamic "No!" on the Babi-Baha'is situation, such that Baha'u'llah is afflicted by tribulations, and says, "a person [Azal] whom we raised over months and years with the hand of compassion once attempted to kill me..." Baha'u'llah's Commentary on a Verse of Rumi.

To me the world is shifting its Mind to thoughts based in Affirmation, not Negation.

In other words, in my opinion, look for the Good, be inspired by the good, think good, act good, see naught but good, do good.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Robin and I were sending lengthy epistles to each other. It was time consuming. Although it enabled each other to learn more about each others views and weight those divergent beliefs with the light of reason it ran the risk of causing more heat than light. We are still talking to each other though. The best we can do with some people as with this thread is agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Yes, he's very locked in to his beliefs. I don't think I will ever let myself get locked in. There's too many variables.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Jews and Christians are still debating. What's new? Prophecy has its limitations. At the end of the day we each need to choose a belief or world view that works for us and live it.

Like Baha'is say the eternal, spiritual beliefs are very close to being the same in most all religions. It's the rest of the beliefs that make it hard to believe.

 

[CG Didymus]

OK...... so you don't really believe in spirits.
Fair enough........

What do you mean by 'the spiritual world of God?'
Is this some not really real world where spirits aren't really there, but ........ what?

I think that you use the word 'spritual' as a nice feel-good comfy word, but have absolutely no belief in or about it whatsoever.

A spirit is a spirit, not virtual.

I've known Baha'is that said they saw visions of Abdu'l Baha. Was it a spirit or a hallucination?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, he's very locked in to his beliefs. I don't think I will ever let myself get locked in. There's too many variables.

One thing that you find out very quickly, is that you should never be locked into any of ones own thoughts on what scripture means.

There are aspects that require total dedication, like the Covenant and Laws of God, but that dedication comes only after much affirmations of a just search.

You are very well informed in your search

My Wife read this following prayer on a wall of a person she just went over to meet and say Hi to and asked to the source. When told of the source, she asked then and there as to how she could become a Baha'i, and did that very day.

"God! Refresh and gladden my spirit. Purify my heart. Illumine my powers. I lay all my affairs in Thy hand. Thou art my Guide and my Refuge. I will no longer be sorrowful and grieved; I will be a happy and joyful being. O God! I will no longer be full of anxiety, nor will I let trouble harass me. I will not dwell on the unpleasant things of life.

O God! Thou art more friend to me than I am to myself. I dedicate myself to Thee, O Lord." (Abdu’l-Bahá)

For me it was the Prophecy you are having such a hard time with?

So it is not me who can offer how it all unfolds

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I've known Baha'is that said they saw visions of Abdu'l Baha. Was it a spirit or a hallucination?

Two quotes cover this

"Regarding your question: In His chapter on ‘Visions and Communications with Spirits’ in ‘Some Answered Questions’ the Master evidently desires to point out that there can be, under certain rare circumstances, such as those experienced by the Prophets, communion with some soul gone before into the invisible world, but that most of this type of experience which people often claim to have with departed souls is nothing but the product of their own imaginations-however real it may seem to them to be." (Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 514)

"There are no earth-bound souls. When the souls that are not good die they go entirely away from this earth and so cannot influence anyone. They are spiritually dead. Their thoughts can have influence only when they are alive on the earth... But the good souls are given eternal life and sometimes God permits their thoughts to reach the earth to help the people." (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Daily Lessons, Received at Akka, 1979 ed., pp. 35-36)

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I see it as the opposite, as it is not a Baha'i calculation. It depends if you accept the Bab's Claim and then the Calculations make perfect sense.

AH1260 is a year in the Muslim calendar, the Bab Gave a Message in the year AH1260.

AD1844 is a year in the Gregorian calendar, the Bab Gave a Message in the year AD1844.

Both the year AH1260 and AD1844 are the same year, no calculation needed.

Now we can go to the Bible. Is a Revelation given in this year verifiable by Prophecy? The answer is Yes, as people had even done the calculation prior to the Revelation being given, it needed no manipulation of a new Faith, the Revelation was the fulfillment.

All Prophecy can now be viewed to see if it does announce this Revelation. Mathematically for this to happen, it can not be chance, the numbers mind boggling for it to ever be chance.

Regards Tony

But Muhammad is the next manifestation after Jesus. The prophecies, at least some of them, have to be equally right on for him too. All any Baha'i has come up with is 666AD. And that's for a beast. And why not an 1863 prophecy for Baha'u'llah, since he's the main guy in all this. But all the dates all are 1260 years and all end in 1844.