How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

In a talk about science and religion Abdul'baha has said this;

"....All religions of the present day have fallen into superstitious practices, out of harmony alike with the true principles of the teaching they represent and with the scientific discoveries of the time. Many religious leaders have grown to think that the importance of religion lies mainly in the adherence to a collection of certain dogmas and the practice of rites and ceremonies! Those whose souls they profess to cure are taught to believe likewise, and these cling tenaciously to the outward forms, confusing them with the inward truth."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 141-146

If you read this link above the talk before it is on the search for Truth.

Regards Tony

This just shows his ignorance towards dharmic faiths, Tony. The dharmic faiths of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism have continuously been focused inward. There is no confusion at all. It's an empty accusation. 'All religions of the present day have fallen into superstitious practices'. Really? I would say adherents of those same religions would certainly disagree. How does one build unity and peace by being so very critical of other faiths? That certainly doesn't build bridges, it puts up walls. It does draw in all other critically minded folks looking for an excuse to say they're right and everyone else is wrong.

Later in the same talk in your link he says this ... "Some worship the product of their own imagination: they make for themselves an imaginary God and adore this, when the creation of their finite minds cannot be the Infinite Mighty Maker of all things visible and invisible! Others worship the sun or trees, also stones! In past ages there were those who adored the sea, the clouds, and even clay!"

This is a pot shot at pagans and Hindus, more criticism where none is deserved. It shows that he clearly doesn't understand stuff from other paradigms. I know of no Hindu that worships stones. We worship Gods, and use images and murthies to channel it. It's a known inner science for eons ago, and works just as copper conducts electricity. So, with that analogy, he's mistaking the copper for the electricity. If a person ignorant of how electricity works saw the copper writing in a house he's think ... what stupidity is this, stringing a bunch of wires all about your house! And to think that if you touch them together some magic will happen! Absurd.

So I actually doubt that Abdul Bahai asked a single question of any Hindu or pagan. He just took a look, a brief cursory look and made a critical judgement based on his own false thinking based on what he got from his grandfather.

Frankly, it's disrespectful, if not downright insulting.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

OK - so that means that the disciple's father had already died (on the grounds that Baha'u'llah, the infallible Manifestation of God says so even though it is not in the actual Gospel account) - so which "dead" people was Jesus recommending should perform the burial? Please answer the question this time.

He said "Let the dead bury their own dead" .

The first dead, is, spiritually dead. Jesus called those who were misguided and sinner 'dead', since their spiritual qualities are dead, and that they have eyes but do not see, or ears they cannot hear. The second dead in the quote, is actually physically dead person

It means, Jesus told him, "let the ignorant, and sinner bury their own diseased person. But the intention of Bahaullah of referring to this verse is to show evidence that 'dead' does not alway mean physically dead in the Scriptures, and thus, the Day of Resurrection, which is the Day that the Dead is resurrected, is a reference to a Day that Spiritually dead people become spiritually alive and awakened. By giving this logical arguments Bahaullah is saying that the Day of Resurrection actually have come and through the Revelation of the Bab and Bahaullah, the spiritually dead are resurrected.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This just shows his ignorance towards dharmic faiths, Tony. The dharmic faiths of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism have continuously been focused inward. There is no confusion at all. It's an empty accusation. 'All religions of the present day have fallen into superstitious practices'. Really? I would say adherents of those same religions would certainly disagree. How does one build unity and peace by being so very critical of other faiths? That certainly doesn't build bridges, it puts up walls. It does draw in all other critically minded folks looking for an excuse to say they're right and everyone else is wrong.

Later in the same talk in your link he says this ... "Some worship the product of their own imagination: they make for themselves an imaginary God and adore this, when the creation of their finite minds cannot be the Infinite Mighty Maker of all things visible and invisible! Others worship the sun or trees, also stones! In past ages there were those who adored the sea, the clouds, and even clay!"

This is a pot shot at pagans and Hindus, more criticism where none is deserved. It shows that he clearly doesn't understand stuff from other paradigms. I know of no Hindu that worships stones. We worship Gods, and use images and murthies to channel it. It's a known inner science for eons ago, and works just as copper conducts electricity. So, with that analogy, he's mistaking the copper for the electricity. If a person ignorant of how electricity works saw the copper writing in a house he's think ... what stupidity is this, stringing a bunch of wires all about your house! And to think that if you touch them together some magic will happen! Absurd.

So I actually doubt that Abdul Bahai asked a single question of any Hindu or pagan. He just took a look, a brief cursory look and made a critical judgement based on his own false thinking based on what he got from his grandfather.

Frankly, it's disrespectful, if not downright insulting.

If you had asked a question of Abdul'baha, the answer would most likely be different.

I would suggest the insult does not lay in the quote of Abdul'baha, but in our own understandings.

Regards Tony

 

[siti]

...the intention of Bahaullah of referring to this verse is to show evidence that 'dead' does not always mean physically dead in the Scriptures...

Quite so! I wonder then - was Jesus seriously recommending that faithful disciples would not take the time to mourn departed loved ones just because they were not sufficiently "spiritual" when they were alive? Do Baha'is refuse to attend the funerals of parents or siblings who are not faithful Baha'is? Do faithful Baha'is (not considering themselves to be 'spiritually dead') refuse to conduct or participate in funeral services at all on account of this directive? Or might the point of the story been to have Jesus responding to the excuse of someone who wanted to beg off following the spiritual path until his father had died and he had performed his traditional family duties in regard to the funeral rites...and/or, perhaps received his inheritance...?

In any case, just to make it plain, the scripture he was referring to does not state that the disciple's father was actually physically dead (at least not yet at any rate) - and yet Baha'u'llah writes "...it is written: “And it came to pass that on a certain day the father of one of the disciples of Jesus had died.” " when in fact, no such thing is written.

That is, by any account, either an error or a lie. I can't believe it was Baha'u'llah's deliberate intention to deceive (in this otherwise trivial case) so it must be an error. QED.

 

[Vinayaka]

I would suggest the insult does not lay in the quote of Abdul'baha, but in our own understandings.

So let me get this straight. When a Baha'i' authority or an ordinary Bahai'i for that matter, calls a non-Baha'i' superstitious, deluded, blind, walking away from God, or any other such concept, it's the fault of the non-Baha'i' for not correctly understanding it?

So to put the shoe on the other foot, if I say to anyone, 'Why you ________ __________ __________ _________ (as vile as you'd like to make it) and you see it as insulting, I can just say, 'But you didn't understand the true intent of it."

I actually don't see why any religion feels it has to insult other religions. In my view, its a perverse way of making yourself feel better. it's like a short man looking for an even shorter man to compare himself to just so he doesn't feel short.

When it comes from leaders, who at the very same time. claim they want to get along with everyone, in the spirit of tolerance, it makes even less sense.

Much better, in my view, to say nothing. Say, 'that belief system is irrelevant to my belief system,' and leave it at that.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So let me get this straight. When a Baha'i' authority or an ordinary Bahai'i for that matter, calls a non-Baha'i' superstitious, deluded, blind, walking away from God, or any other such concept, it's the fault of the non-Baha'i' for not correctly understanding it?

So to put the shoe on the other foot, if I say to anyone, 'Why you ________ __________ __________ _________ (as vile as you'd like to make it) and you see it as insulting, I can just say, 'But you didn't understand the true intent of it."

I actually don't see why any religion feels it has to insult other religions. In my view, its a perverse way of making yourself feel better. it's like a short man looking for an even shorter man to compare himself to just so he doesn't feel short.

When it comes from leaders, who at the very same time. claim they want to get along with everyone, in the spirit of tolerance, it makes even less sense.

Much better, in my view, to say nothing. Say, 'that belief system is irrelevant to my belief system,' and leave it at that.

Your mother and father must have had a hard time with you Mine did with me.

Abdul'baha, if He was speaking with you, he would share faith as you see it.

You did not ask the question the reply was given to, the person that asked it, has a background to see an answer to their question. They did not see Faith as you do.

I can read that passage and it applies to me, I see Faith in this way, from the stones of the earth to the Holy Spirit. I do not mind being called blind and ignorant, or that my own actions turn me away from the God I seek, as I know I very much blind and ignorant and do often turn away from Gods advice.

Stay well and happy in how you see Life and Faith. If you want put a big old LOL and say rubbish we will laugh with you.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Much better, in my view, to say nothing. Say, 'that belief system is irrelevant to my belief system,' and leave it at that.

Abdul'baha in America gave a talk in a synagogue.

In that talk He gave proofs of Christ and Muhammad. Knocked their socks off he did.

Imagine if Jews, Christains and Muslims in America had embraced that Unity in the early 1900's.

At times peole need thier foundations shaken, after all how many lives do you want to spend on this earth?

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

This just shows his ignorance towards dharmic faiths, Tony. The dharmic faiths of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism have continuously been focused inward. There is no confusion at all. It's an empty accusation. 'All religions of the present day have fallen into superstitious practices'. Really? I would say adherents of those same religions would certainly disagree. How does one build unity and peace by being so very critical of other faiths? That certainly doesn't build bridges, it puts up walls. It does draw in all other critically minded folks looking for an excuse to say they're right and everyone else is wrong.

Later in the same talk in your link he says this ... "Some worship the product of their own imagination: they make for themselves an imaginary God and adore this, when the creation of their finite minds cannot be the Infinite Mighty Maker of all things visible and invisible! Others worship the sun or trees, also stones! In past ages there were those who adored the sea, the clouds, and even clay!"

This is a pot shot at pagans and Hindus, more criticism where none is deserved. It shows that he clearly doesn't understand stuff from other paradigms. I know of no Hindu that worships stones. We worship Gods, and use images and murthies to channel it. It's a known inner science for eons ago, and works just as copper conducts electricity. So, with that analogy, he's mistaking the copper for the electricity. If a person ignorant of how electricity works saw the copper writing in a house he's think ... what stupidity is this, stringing a bunch of wires all about your house! And to think that if you touch them together some magic will happen! Absurd.

So I actually doubt that Abdul Bahai asked a single question of any Hindu or pagan. He just took a look, a brief cursory look and made a critical judgement based on his own false thinking based on what he got from his grandfather.

Frankly, it's disrespectful, if not downright insulting.

The quote that you are referring is not related to Hinduism. Abdulbaha was speaking about the Muslims of His time.

"Some worship the product of their own imagination: they make for themselves an imaginary God and adore this, when the creation of their finite minds cannot be the Infinite Mighty Maker of all things visible and invisible! Others worship the sun or trees, also stones! In past ages there were those who adored the sea, the clouds, and even clay!"

The imaginary God, is Allah in the minds. The Bahai Faith teaches we are not to make an image in our mind of God or Allah. We are to communicate through the Manifestation of God, as Allah Himself is beyond our imagination.
So, if what Abdulbaha says is true, and if Bahaullah is Manifestation of God, should not They guide humanity to the right path, and point out their errors? To me insult is not to correct the false beliefs. Insult is to attack anyone personally, not the false ideas which has become a barrier for them to progress spiritually. And of course God can do as He pleases, can He not?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Constantine's conversion I think was a big part in the making of Christianity into a major religion. Then, he made the leaders get together and figure out exactly what they believed in. Of course the message of love is in there, but it's in Judaism too... Love your neighbor as yourself. But when do religions actually do that?

Even with the Baha'is, could you go into an Isis stronghold and tell them you love them? Or, go into Saudi Arabia and say that Baha'u'llah has come with a new message of peace and love? Unfortunately, it ain't how this world works. And to quote Trump... "Sad"

Love is the foundation of all existence according to the Baha’i Writings but Baha’u’llah said the most important principle for governing society was justice not love. The affairs of the world would fall into complete chaos if the tyrant and killer were given mercy.

Reward and punishment is the fundamental principle that should govern societies. But the laws need to be in tune with the times. Baha’u’llah said without justice there can be no unity and without unity no peace so world peace rests upon justice being practiced. Individuals however should be forgiving and see the good in others. It is for society to punish criminals not individuals,

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yeah, yeah, I said in another post. I lived through the generation where we believed "all you need is love". What happened? Things got added like... all you need is love and some money... some money and maybe a car... a house would be nice. Dang, now I need a steady job...

But let's pretend, for Baha'is, that is the ultimate answer... "Love one another". Can you and are you able to do that? I would imagine there are some problems and barriers to making that a reality. What are they and how are you overcoming them?

There’s things I like a lot like the tolerance and love for other religions, Holy Books and Teachers or Prophets. Then mostly I can trust Baha’is even strangers I meet are friends automatically as if we knew each other all our lives. A lot of barriers of race, religion, culture, class and nationality are already greatly lessened .
I had a few a Bahá’í’s visit once. They brought a very expensive cake. They stayed for the afternoon. They treated me as an equal. Later I looked up who they were in our register and they were very highly qualified people and doctors but they made no mention of it to me.

I think that Baha’is being born into this materialistic society will have the effect of us eventually being forced to learn to live a spiritual life amidst rife materialism in order to survive and effect a transformation in humanity because we can only show humanity a better path to walk if we are walking it ourselves so that can only be done by being more spiritual than material.

We are having to overcome the same temptations as others. If we succeed then we will be able to rescue a drowning humanity but if we are drowning ourselves then we are not much use to anyone.

I think the House of Justice is doing an excellent job keeping us focused on the task at hand...individual transfomation of our characters and development of the Baha’i way of community life.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's the ideal. Abrahamic (and western focused eastern faiths with "one truth" mindset) have a "follow us for peace" point of view. For example, even, a Catholic feels his christian brother is not "fully" christian without all the physical sacraments. Quite recently, at least in my lifetime, one the popes finally said other christians are christian by baptism; recognized now by The Church.

People can be turned to murder because of how They interpret religions. For example, Nichiren Shoshu Buddhists have no problem saying they are the True Buddhist and even more so only buddhist sect to give enlightenment. The True religion for this time (they say too), the Age of Mappo. I like the practice but not the evangalizing and definitely not the American influenced Japanese politics. I never got that from the religion just the people who follow it.

If Bahai told them Shakyamni and his incarnation of today Nichiren points to god of abraham and sny creator there would be more friction then just saying hey, what do YOU believe. I believe in god. Let Us work out our issues. If we find something new to address our political problems we need to agree on the solution together. "What is your opinion; how do you think we should go about this since you dont believe in god?"

It's hard to say "follow your own faith to a christian" then tell him "bahallauh is part of the bible" in the same sentence. It disapreciates the bible's message to reflect people's politic issues bahaullah wants to solve. Or to a buddhist "we respect your faith" by the way "The Buddha points to the god of abraham."

Do you see how that causes a problem for the other side and why people can get into wars when you interpret others beliefs that you (bahai as a whole) dont follow?

Hi Carlita. Hope you’re healthy and in good spirits!

Yes I agree it can and does come across as offensive and people can feel very insulted by it if they are attached to certain customs and traditions. But that does not mean they are right. The Divine Messengers come to bring the truth not to endorse the current religious leadership or views.

The reason they crucified Christ and exiled Baha’u’llah was because the truth these Messengers brought was at variance with the views commonly held and taught at that time.

The Divine Messengers challenge the theories, views and interpretations commonly held at the time They appear. That is why, as They gain in popularity, opposition grows.

It is clearly foreshadowed in our Writings that there will be a fierce universal contest where people from all religions, nations peoples will combine to RESIST the Baha’i Faith. People will join and join and join throwing into consternation all Faiths and people. It’s happening now in some places. But people will join because they love but measures will be adopted to ‘stop the bleeding’ by religious leaders and that will mean open opposition.

How great, how very great is the Cause! How very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause

What do you think is going to happen when millions stop following the pope and instead pledge loyalty to the House of Justice? Will the priests remain silent? The same with Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam. They manipukate and control the minds, souls and pockets of their followers and won’t surrender them without the fiercest of fights with truth being the victim.

It’s about power, membership, control and money not truth.

Every Holy Book prophesied a Promised One. They have not are not and are not even interested in investigating their own scriptures thoroughly to see if Baha’u’llah is the truth, They have either ignored or opposed. But if they ignore what is written in their own Books then do they even follow their own religion or is it only priests and leaders they follow?

Whenever a Divine Messenger appears, the followers of all Faiths are expected, according to their own scriptures to turn to Him as He brings the truth. This is well documented in the Holy Books,

Baha’u’llah issued warnings to the kings and religious leaders and foretold their downfall if they challenged Him, the Eternal Truth in order to hang onto their power and memberships.

He said the souls of men are God’s possession not theirs.

And went on to say that as the clergy has been the main cause of people turning away from the truth and causing every Divine Messenger untold suffering, priesthood is now abolished, and we can see today worldwide the disgrace into which it has fallen and continues to fall until people will maybe discard it altogether.

The priests the pope the Dalai Lama and so on I believe, should have been the first to accept Baha’u’llah but as He said “for a mere pond they have deprived themselves of the Most Great Ocean’.

This is the Day of Judgement and it is each person himself or herself who judges him or herself.

Baha’u’llah says ‘Judge aright, O servant!

 

[Dawnofhope]

I'm all the way up to page 676. Sorry, to back track so much for all of you, but Adrian's answer here doesn't fit a person that totally believes in his infallible messenger. "It is not my belief and faith, but it could be true."

I believe it could be true also. I believe the Baha'is might be true. Maybe even the Christians. I don''t know. But both the Christians and Baha'is put all the "testing" a person goes through into one lifetime. There's so many variables. So many different situations a person could be put through. I think it's much more fair to give a soul a chance to experience life under several of those different situations.

But all truth is relative, not absolute.

The fundamental principle enunciated by Baha’u’llah … is that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is a continuous and progressive process, that all the great religions of the world are divine in origin, that their basic principles are in complete harmony, that their aims and purposes are one and the same, that their teachings are but facets of one truth, that their functions are complementary, that they differ only in the nonessential aspects of their doctrines, and that their missions represent successive stages in the spiritual evolution of human society…Shoghi Effendi

There may be a truth or wisdom behind reincarnation that @Vinayaka understands that I do not, just as there may be a truth behind the principle of progressive revelation not understood by all. We can not dismiss a belief just because we do not believe in it. We all have limited perception to a degree.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It's Baha'is that are quick to point out all the divisions in those religions... all believing something to slightly different to something very different. There were religious leaders that broke away and started most of those denominations and sects. How many teach the exact, according to the Baha'is, truth? None of them. So somebody is being duped.

Actually many Baha'is are quick to point out what unites us and slow to highlight the divisions. But are our perceptions simply illusions that blind us to the truth of ultimate reality? Who is being duped? We all are of course. We are all blind. None of truly sees the way things really are. Once we believe that Jesus or Krishna is God incarnate then anything is possible. Maybe the world really was created six thousand years ago and satan blinds our eyes. Its not my truth and reality, but the reality of another. What appears foolishness and nonsense to me, is clear as the noon day sun to another.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's the ideal. Abrahamic (and western focused eastern faiths with "one truth" mindset) have a "follow us for peace" point of view. For example, even, a Catholic feels his christian brother is not "fully" christian without all the physical sacraments. Quite recently, at least in my lifetime, one the popes finally said other christians are christian by baptism; recognized now by The Church.

People can be turned to murder because of how They interpret religions. For example, Nichiren Shoshu Buddhists have no problem saying they are the True Buddhist and even more so only buddhist sect to give enlightenment. The True religion for this time (they say too), the Age of Mappo. I like the practice but not the evangalizing and definitely not the American influenced Japanese politics. I never got that from the religion just the people who follow it.

If Bahai told them Shakyamni and his incarnation of today Nichiren points to god of abraham and sny creator there would be more friction then just saying hey, what do YOU believe. I believe in god. Let Us work out our issues. If we find something new to address our political problems we need to agree on the solution together. "What is your opinion; how do you think we should go about this since you dont believe in god?"

It's hard to say "follow your own faith to a christian" then tell him "bahallauh is part of the bible" in the same sentence. It disapreciates the bible's message to reflect people's politic issues bahaullah wants to solve. Or to a buddhist "we respect your faith" by the way "The Buddha points to the god of abraham."

Do you see how that causes a problem for the other side and why people can get into wars when you interpret others beliefs that you (bahai as a whole) dont follow?

Carlita I really like your frankness and you’re very right about these things. Eventually, if a lot more people become Baha’is the situation in Iran will happen everywhere.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, the problem here has been the connection from Hinduism and Buddhism to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Very basic beliefs in each are already different. I can see a "progression" or even a "synthesis" in religions, but it's very different than the progression Baha'is believe in. I can see how people progress and leave archaic ideas and practices and beliefs behind... and revamp their religions to fit the times. In the meanwhile, other religions have popped up.

But the line of progression between Judaism to Christianity to Islam to the Baha'i Faith (and weird that we never say Babism in there) is completely separate from the religions of India and other places. Judaism has a beginning and a progression all its own, and never refers to a "true" religion that it evolved from. It is the beginning of the line that all those other "Abrahamics" refer back to as from where they evolved from.

The Baha'is have no problem seeing One loving God who guides all humanity so no created being may remain beyond the bounds of His good pleasure.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’í Prayers: A Selection of Prayers Revealed by Bahá’u’lláh, the Báb, and ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Page 200

The people of India and Asia simply had a different starting point that will take us to the same place eventually, unless you want to believe that one group are inherently more superior to another and therefore more deserving of God's favour.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Oh my geesh. I think you beat me on this post this page at least. Im doing well though. Thank you for asking. Hope you are doing well too.

Yes I agree it can and does come across as offensive and people can feel very insulted by it if they are attached to certain customs and traditions.

. But that does not mean they are right. The Divine Messengers come to bring the truth not to endorse the current religious leadership or views.

"That does not mean they are right" is what causes wars. It may seem like a difference of opinion but when you are addressing world peace, "right" should be mutually agreed on. Therefore, you can be encouraged by your divine messangers but, unless they are bahai, you cannot use divine messangers towards a joint solution to world peace.

The new systen is an US attempt not a bahaullah onem

The reason they crucified Christ and exiled Baha’u’llah was because the truth these Messengers brought was at variance with the views commonly held and taught at that time.

The Divine Messengers challenge the theories, views and interpretations commonly held at the time They appear. That is why, as They gain in popularity, opposition grows.

It is clearly foreshadowed in our Writings that there will be a fierce universal contest where people from all religions, nations peoples will combine to RESIST the Baha’i Faith. People will join and join and join throwing into consternation all Faiths and people.

It’s happening now in some places. But people will join because they love but measures will be adopted to ‘stop the bleeding’ by religious leaders and that will mean open opposition.

What do you think is going to happen when millions stop following the pope and instead pledge loyalty to the House of Justice?

Same view of following and need to go by their authority rather than look to themselves as authority of our individual well-being. That is like if I were Catholic, I dont have the same peace than I would if I followed the House of Justice.

We can generalize but if we broke it up individually, I notice Bahai dodge the same question. Though generalizing does more harm than individualizing.

Will the priests remain silent?

Nowadays I seen only humble priests. It depends.

The same with Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam. They manipukate and control the minds, souls and pockets of their followers and won’t surrender them without the fiercest of fights with truth being the victim.

WHAT? Wait. Youre generalizing. That does harm. So Vinayaka and I manipulate and control minds?

It’s about power, membership, control and money not truth.

Humans avoid pain naturally spiritually, psychologially, ans physically. Peace and health is natural. Its about this peace that people want. Its about what we want as a whole in general and what we want morally or religiously.

Money, membership, and control are icing to a cake.

Every Holy Book prophesied a Promised One. They have not are not and are not even interested in investigating their own scriptures thoroughly to see if Baha’u’llah is the truth, They have either ignored or opposed. But if they ignore what is written in their own Books then do they even follow their own religion or is it only priests and leaders they follow?

What??! This is what causes wars. Buddhism doesnt have a promised one. All Buddhas have the same message. What message does Maitreya would bring if not peace and end of suffering by following The Buddha and Dharma Not himself?

We ignore interpretations of our books unless they are constructive and not contradicting the nature of our teachings And practices.

So I ignored my own Dhamma?

Whenever a Divine Messenger appears, the followers of all Faiths are expected, according to their own scriptures to turn to Him as He brings the truth. This is well documented in the Holy Books,

Krishna isnt part of this. He is a thorn in all promised ones. Everyone else were humans.

Baha’u’llah issued warnings to the kings and religious leaders and foretold their downfall if they challenged Him, the Eternal Truth in order to hang onto their power and memberships.

He said the souls of men are God’s possession not theirs.

And went on to say that as the clergy has been the main cause of people turning away from the truth and causing every Divine Messenger untold suffering, priesthood is now abolished, and we can see today worldwide the disgrace into which it has fallen and continues to fall until people will maybe discard it altogether.

The priests the pope the Dalai Lama and so on I believe, should have been the first to accept Baha’u’llah but as He said “for a mere pond they have deprived themselves of the Most Great Ocean’.

This is why there are wars. What about the other party's opinion?

This is the Day of Judgement and it is each person himself or herself who judges him or herself.

This is a guilt ultimatum statement. Yoj have passionate words but the expression and truth statements dont attract people who look for coraporation with people not a one person dicatorship.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita I really like your frankness and you’re very right about these things. Eventually, if a lot more people become Baha’is the situation in Iran will happen everywhere.

Maybe in Iran it would help. For humanity? Thats speaking for people who should be a part of the decision making process.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If you are referring to me, yes, you are dead wrong. I believe in Baha'u'llah and his covenant, and support and identify with the structure of the Bahai Administrative Order, i.e., the institutions of the community as set out in the Bahai writings.

Adrian thinks I am a "dissident" which means one who sits apart, hence, someone with a different opinion who withdraws because of it. But I haven't sat apart, and what precisely is the different opinion in my case? Different Bahais have different ideas about what is different about Sen. That's because different Bahais have different ideas, period. So one agrees with me on A and disagrees with me on B, while another disagrees on A but agrees on B.

Adrian approximately defined what he means by a dissident :

and he opined:



But if we asked Adrian and other Bahais on this thread to say what my "version" is that I am promoting, I doubt they could say, and I am sure they couldn't agree on what is wrong with it.

Adrian is reading into the Bahai community some assumptions about how a religious community works, based on his background in a "christian" society. Christianity is an orthodoxy, not in the sense of being old-fashioned, but rather in the etymological sense of ortho-doxy, saying the right thing. So if someone is set apart, the assumption is that this must be because they said the wrong thing -- even if they did not apparently say anything wrong. But what if the Bahai community is not an orthodoxy? Then we are faced with a question more interesting than "why was Sen disenrolled" : what sort of community is the Bahai community then? Not an orthopraxy, surely, since there's too much emphasis on avoiding rigid rituals and on the individual's responsibility to choose their own ethical path. I would suggest it is a community united by a shared focus on Baha'u'llah as a person, and his message and covenant. It is person-centred, rather than doctrine-centred or practice-centred.

Hi Sen,

Welcome to the thread. I think you’re memory and perhaps knowledge of the many untranslated tablets is much more extensive than mine so I’d like to ask you if you can recall something Baha’u’llah said in a Tablet quoted by Taherzadeh in Revelatiin if Baha’u’llah which volume I don’t know.

I definitely read it in one of the books of Taherzadeh, Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

Baha’u’llah was supposed to have said that a person cannot be harmed or hurt by another’s action towards him/her as all actions ascend to God so if for instance you abused or hurt or harmed someone, you actually did it to God.

Taherzadeh went in to explain that this would change human behavior and was ground breaking because once people understood that their attitude and acts towards others were reflecting their attitude towards God they would change.

I’ve looked and looked and I’ve got 3 digital copies all except the last I think. But I’d like to find that.

If you recall or know off hand I’d much spore hate it. If not thanks anyway.

 

[Dawnofhope]

This is what I asked, "So everything that Christians believed about Jesus begins with a false belief that he rose from the dead?"

So you believe modern Biblical scholarship shows that they didn't hold this belief in the resurrection of Jesus? You can't just say that they believed it but were wrong? That they made it up or imagined it?

But the gospel writers say it happened, but the apostles and the early Christians didn't believe it? Hello, is their any Christians reading this? Did you know your religious beliefs are false? Jesus didn't rise from the dead... modern scholarship, comparative religion and science says so.

What does it really matter if they believed Jesus was God incarnate and He rose from the dead? It provided them with encouragement and hope. As long as they remembered to love their neighbours and enemies so what! We live in the twenty first century now so the resurrection no longer resonates the truth for many as it once did. That's fine, because the bible is all about change. Its focus is fully embracing this day that the prophets and sages of old longed for, where the Son has come in the Father's Glory.

Matthew 16:26-27

 

[oldbadger]

Poor missionaries.
Nothing specific to Joseph Smith, I don't believe. Of course, we do believe that certain biblical passages are referencing the "restoration" of Christianity as it existed anciently, which is what Mormonism claims to be.

OK. So your 'Great Being' is Jesus, and not Joseph Smith?
This thread is discussing 'Great Beings', they being the manifestations of God (and Gods) as followed by different faiths and religions, or that's what it seems like to me.

As a Deist, I do believe in a Deity which is all of everything,which of course includes ourselves, but this Deity is not particularly concerned with people so we don't get a special dispensation, heaven or anything. But that does make today, now, a really special event.

I just noticed that you're from England. My husband and I spent a months in the UK just over two years ago. We drove 2,950 miles, from as far north as Inverness to as far south as London. What a beautiful part of the world and what charming people! Wish I could have met you while we were there.

A very kind description of the UK and us. Thankyou.
@chinu had to come to London about three years ago, so we met up and took a taxi round London, enjoying the sights, talking and stopping at coffee bars. It was a brilliant day, but that's the only time I have ever met anybody from RF or the internet at all.