How are these Great Beings explained?

[Milton Platt]

Read the link. The Buddha didn't say it.

Oh,....I didn't realize it was a link.
Well, he should have....LOL

Thanks!!!

 

[Dawnofhope]

Oh,....I didn't realize it was a link.
Well, he should have....LOL

Thanks!!!

Why?

Don't you love the Buddha?

 

[Milton Platt]

Why?

Don't you love the Buddha?

No, but don't hold any grudges, either. Just joking.

If i had to be religious for some reason, that would most likely be my first choice.

 

[Dawnofhope]

No, but don't hold any grudges, either. Just joking.

If i had to be religious for some reason, that would most likely be my first choice.

Buddhism is a good choice for atheists, I agree. I'm please you don't hold grudges and wouldn't kill the Buddha if you saw him.

 

[CG Didymus]

We recognise a lineage of prophets whose descendants can be traced from Abraham. Baha'u'llah and Bab's lineage can be traced all the way back to Abraham.

Some scholars estimate that about 30% of the bible is prophecy. Whether Daniel, Isaiah, Jesus on the Mount of Olives, or Revelation, there is a great deal about the future and an era of peace in the world and the chaos that comes beforehand.



We have the OT, NT, Quran, and Baha'i writings in that order. As the NT is an addition to the OT which builds upon Hebrew traditions, the Baha'i writings are the latest chapter in the book of Divine revelation Abrahamic style.



Islam is definitely Abrahamic with Quran suras based on OT stories and recognition of Jesus as an important prophet. The Baha'i faith is too.

Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia

What about the Biblical genealogy before Abraham? Do you believe it goes straight back to Noah and his wife and then to Adam and Eve? You also say there is a line that Baha'u'llah has that goes back to Jesse. Who kept these records and how accurate are they? They must have hundreds of branches in that family tree and someone can actually trace it back?

 

[Milton Platt]

Buddhism is a good choice for atheists, I agree. I'm please you don't hold grudges and wouldn't kill the Buddha if you saw him.

I haven't delved much into it, but the non-theistic version has some things to be admired.

 

[CG Didymus]

One of the factors that is largely ignored in this discussion is language and in particular, the translations of various languages into English. Words like God, soul, great being, manifestation, etc. certainly look the same when they are translated into English. But are they really? If the translator didn't know the concept or understand the concept really well, from living another paradigm, he really doesn't have a lot of choice, but to use his mother tongue. It's not like I can translate stuff from here into Tagalog. So everyone here is stuck with English. Whether it is suitable or not doesn't seem to matter, but we're stuck with it, and for the most part, we just assume that it's accurate. If you only have one source, it seems likely that you'll believe that source. I question this, and beleive that often it is illusion, folly, and even if the word is the same, quite likely it actually isn't.

Rajiv Malhotra, a Hindu scholar of Hinduism, proficient in Sanskrit, and in English, makes this point often. Last I heard, he's working on a list of untranslatable words. (Sanskrit to English). In other words, he maintains that the same concepts don't exist in English, period.

My Sri Lankan friend brought me a wood apple one day. Naturally, I figured it was some sort of tropical apple. It wasn't. I couldn't have been more wrong. Yes, it had that English name. That's where the similarity ended. It tasted bitter, and had the consistency of about cork ... a tough chew. Perhaps when we speak of 'soul', or 'God', it's as far off as 'apple' is.

Persian, Arabic, Mandarin, Tamil ... any of the ancient tongues that had religious scripture ... just how much distort is there in the translations?

Like the Jews have a name for their God, but they don't pronounce it. They just use the letters YHWH.

 

[CG Didymus]

I will again do this later today, there are a few, but one that stands out is Micah 4:3

King James Bible "And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

Baha'u'llah did this in his letters to the leaders of the world.

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

If you read these, you will see Micah fulfilled.

Regards Tony

But we are still making weapons of war. So fulfilled to you means something different than what we see happening in the world. The NT verse I have use a few times says that there will be wars and rumors of wars, but that is not yet the end. So I take that as meaning the return of Christ hasn't happened yet. How do you take it?

 

[CG Didymus]

This is a very important point. I have had many discussions with Christians about Christian topics and having an understanding of how the original sacred texts were written and in what language and in what context can be critical to understanding some verses. The OT is written in Hebrew but a translation into Koine Greek called the Septuagint was very much in the few centuries up until the time of Christ due to the Greek then Roman Empires occupying Judea/Israel. Jesus himself was though to speak Aramaic and Greek, and the early gospels were thought to be written in Greek, though there is discussion about a Hebrew version of Matthew. The Greek was later translated into Latin and then into English for the first time over 400 years ago with the King James bible. Understanding this history and some Greek and Hebrew can be very helpful to better grasp the subtleties and nuances of the NT and OT.

Baha'u'llah's revelation is recorded in both Persian and Arabic. We rely on good quality translation, and there have been Baha'is that have published their own translations according to their particular understanding that have not been authorised and have created confusion.

No doubt the history of sacred texts in Hinduism that includes some of the most ancient texts known, will have much more complex issues attached, making it even more difficult to properly understand. I recognise, that I'm completely out of my depth here. Baha'is who have been Hindu's and have a deep understanding of both religions are required and what's missing on this thread. No amount of reading that any of the Baha'is here do, is likely to come close. We are all outsiders. Moojan Momen's book has a similar 'outsider' problem.

You know what bothers me about many prominent Christian leaders is how they say Satan's name was Lucifer. But the verse they get that from was written in Hebrew. But they don't use the Hebrew word. Instead, they get the word Lucifer from the Latin translation and say that was Satan's original name? A little strange to me.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The only person who actually knows the intent or objective is the author, or the artist. The rest of us are merely conjecturing.

Yes this is so and this is why we go to what Baha'u'llah has said. We have accepted that He is the Author of all of what God has given to Humanity and His explanations are Truth. Yes this is Baha'i belief.

This is why we try to determine what was the original writing from the person that gave the Message.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

I haven't delved much into it, but the non-theistic version has some things to be admired.

The teachings of Buddha are beautiful and practical. All the best with your non-theism and wherever that leads.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

edited: I don't expect an anwer to this question, but it's worth a shot, I suppose.

I will make it easy. Do not expect an answer.

Please Consider some people still have a full working life and may only be on a phone.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

But how exactly can one do that? You don't read Persian do you? Is it the original intent, or what best suits yourself, and how you intuitively view the world? In a way I feel it is like poetry or art. The only person who actually knows the intent or objective is the author, or the artist. The rest of us are merely conjecturing.

Lots of commentators say things like, "Oh, he didn't really mean that." Bahai's do this with the many parts of the world's scriptures. Seems to me that is a flawed approach ... to think you can pass that sort of judgement on a book, better even than the adherents themselves can. Best to not read it at all that make your own interpretations as you go along.

Yes, like taking reincarnation out of Hinduism and the resurrection out of Christianity completely changes those religions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is not at all uncommon in seekers, sticking with the first thing that makes any sense at all. I think it's a natural tendency, yet most likely hinders any further exploration at the same time. It's like finding a girl who'll actually go out with you. Hard to refuse that.

I married her in 1980. We Engaged in 3 Days of meeting.

She found the Faith by only reading a prayer. God bless her.

Great hey! God doeth as He willeth.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

I will make it easy. Do not expect an answer.

Please Consider some people still have a full working life and may only be on a phone.

Regards Tony

I've been responding between seeing patients today. There's nothing like a little multi-tasking.

 

[CG Didymus]

Never heard of it. Is there a link?

Edited ... I found it. An alternate title is 'Stuck in Dogma'

A Modest Proposal and the Talisman Crackdown are examples of Baha'is going too far with their own ideas. I knew of some of these people and heard them speak before. They were prominent Baha'is in the Los Angeles area and thought they were doing a good thing. But the Baha'i authorities put a stop to them. Probably read the Talisman Crackdown first. The Modest Proposal is all about making changes in how Baha'is were doing things.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But we are still making weapons of war. So fulfilled to you means something different than what we see happening in the world. The NT verse I have use a few times says that there will be wars and rumors of wars, but that is not yet the end. So I take that as meaning the return of Christ hasn't happened yet. How do you take it?

The Baha'i learn war no more.

Without references, the Message always brings opposition and it is written in the Bible that Satan or Evil is also released for a period of time after the Message.

Mankind does not think in Gods time, they always expect instant confirmations. It has never worked that way. Time unfolds the Wisdom.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I've been responding between seeing patients today. There's nothing like a little multi-tasking.

Ha ha well done, I have a morning tea and lunch, run out of time, must run...actually I have to dig gardens in 38 deg.

Tonight have to be full time, also next couple of days finishing 200th Celebration invites.

God bless all.. .Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

It's not a problem for Baha'i's, but it sure would be a major problem for anyone looking into Baha'i'.

I say that it is a problem for them, because they are stuck trying to convince people that Baha'i infallible ones have said things that contradict the beliefs of the other religions. Like: "No, reincarnation means the qualities of people in the past have come back and live within people now. " Or, "Jesus didn't raise from the dead, but his followers started spreading his word of love... bringing life to the teachings of Jesus."

It would be like someone saying, "Baha'u'llah was never in a physical, brick and mortar prison, but he was in a spiritual prison."

 

[CG Didymus]

The Baha'i learn war no more.

Without references, the Message always brings opposition and it is written in the Bible that Satan or Evil is also released for a period of time after the Message.

Mankind does not think in Gods time, they always expect instant confirmations. It has never worked that way. Time unfolds the Wisdom.

Regards Tony

You know what it says... 1000 years and Satan is released Rev. 20:2... and then thrown into the Lake of Fire. But is this 1000 years first turned into days and then back into "prophetic" years?

And "It has never worked that way"? So prophecy isn't accurate then? If it says the return will bring peace, it means eventually? After a bunch of catastrophes and wars? Even after the wars and rumors of wars that preceded the return of Christ?