How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

what was the purpose of the thread if not letting people who disagree with you clarify what Bahai beliefs about the great leaders compared to their religion in which the rest of us follow?

I believe the true purpose was defeated long ago.

 

[Vinayaka]

Do not wish me a great life or hug me then insult me throughout this thread. That is rude and I do not appreciate it.

Yes, that's pretty shallow, isn't it? If you actually wish someone happiness, you'd leave their chosen beliefs and religion right out of it. I've noticed Adrian has dropped out for some time. I miss him. LH too.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, that's pretty shallow, isn't it? If you actually wish someone happiness, you'd leave their chosen beliefs and religion right out of it. I've notice Adrian has dropped out for some time. I miss him. LH too.

Probably taking a good break. After listening to Dhamma talks on good speech and precepts, it seems I need a good break too. I honestly don't feel it's the Bahai belief itself. Unfortunately, I can't get far in understanding it if no one understands my viewpoint nor wants to understand it. I guess it's that every Bahai here are saying different things. Trying to decipher what Bahaullah says is challenging in itself.

I would blame it on age but I can't remember how old you said you were, but not quite my peer, I know that. So, I'm at a lost.

Don't know. I'm convincing myself to take a break. There's not much conversation on the boards anymore.

 

[Vinayaka]

Probably taking a good break. After listening to Dhamma talks on good speech and precepts, it seems I need a good break too. I honestly don't feel it's the Bahai belief itself. Unfortunately, I can't get far in understanding it if no one understands my viewpoint nor wants to understand it. I guess it's that every Bahai here are saying different things. Trying to decipher what Bahaullah says is challenging in itself.

I would blame it on age but I can't remember how old you said you were, but not quite my peer, I know that. So, I'm at a lost.

Don't know. I'm convincing myself to take a break. There's not much conversation on the boards anymore.

I'm 64. I'm retired so do have time for this. if I was working, like Adrian, I wouldn't be here much at all, if at all. But at my age I need stuff to do, lol. My hobbies are too physical to do all day long. We went for a long drive in the country to day. Fall colours are spectacular.

Take a break. I was off this forum for a year once.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm 64. I'm retired so do have time for this. if I was working, like Adrian, I wouldn't be here much at all, if at all. But at my age I need stuff to do, lol. My hobbies are too physical to do all day long. We went for a long drive in the country to day. Fall colours are spectacular.

Take a break. I was off this forum for a year once.

We're trying to get fall and it still feels like summer. I took a half year break once. It was refreshing. I probably would have forgotten about this place if it wasn't in my computer history .

After sitting and chatting with the nun for a good afternoon a day ago, over a meal at the temple, I pretty much slowly going towards a simple life. I've always wanted a monastery life. At the time, it was Catholic.

My life is backwards. I was sick most my life so I never worked a tax-paying job. Now I'm working less than part-time so I probably work full time, if I can handle it, at retirement age. I'm already getting government funding; so, basically, I'd be paying taxes and they're going straight back to me. They didn't find that a good idea. Haha.

They say to break a habit replace it with another one.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Just one more point on this...This is incorrect - Baha'u'llah was in Kurdistan from April 1854 to March 1856 - he was in his mid thirties having been a follower of the Bab for almost a decade (he was 27 when he became a Babi) and it would be another 7 years after his return to Baghdad before he declared himself to be the "Manifestation". By the time he left for Kurdistan he had written only two of his known works. All the rest of his writings date to after his time in Kurdistan except a poem "Ode of the Dove" which he wrote whilst he was there.

Correct. Bahaullah was born in 1817, He became a follower of the Bab at age 27. by the time He left for Kurdistan, He was about 37 years old.

Baha'u'llah's Tablet of the Banu Qurayza tells us two relevant things: he was reading a multi-volume erudite work of Islamic history in Arabic when he was about 12 years old, and he did not know about the events that led to the execution of the Banu Qurayza men until he read them there, and it came as an enormous shock to him. So on the one hand we have a precocity that goes beyond genius, and on the other hand dependence on sources for his knowledge of this world. This is confirmed later by his remark in the Iqan that he needed to consult a certain book.

One other factor to consider is telephathy. I've experienced this myself once as a child. There are quite a few stories in which Baha'u'llah and the Bab appear to know what is going on in someone's mind, which might be deduction, but I don't rule out the possibility that they grabbed current knowledge from the noosphere or from particular individuals, which is what I experienced.

There are some other occasions too where Baha'u'llah seems to have been unaware of somethings and through an experience He became aware, or awakened. For example the Puppet show, when Bahaullah says, after seeing this show, His view was changed. Another example is when Bahaullah says, 'I was but a man like others, ....then God taught Him the knowledge of past and future'.... However Abdulbaha says, these expressions are not to be taken literally. There is no change in the Manifestations of God.
In some places, Manifestations even confessed their sins, yet, Abdulbaha says, this is only to teach others humility. It all suggests, the official Bahai view is, Manifestations are infallible, and All-knowing from beginning of Their birth. It seems, They only speak in a way that is acceptable to their audience.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I asked questions like this and haven't got an answer/post at all. I wish @Tony Bristow-Stagg stop seeing conversations as negative. It would really help move the conversation on without sounding rude.

Well, in general, I guess. Bahaullah does say Bahai should be silent and be focused on deeds. @adrian009 is it more of a balancing between what to say or is it guidance in person that silence and action are better than speech?

Hi Carlita,

I've been a little preoccupied the last few days. Hopefully a little time to catch up now.

Here's a quote from Baha'u'llah on silence that sounds almost Buddhist like:

The essence of true safety is to observe silence, to look at the end of things and to renounce the world.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 155-157

I had wondered about what Buddha said in regards to the Hindu Faith He grew up in.

'On one occasion, Malunkyaputta asked the Buddha a number of questions: whether or not the world is eternal; whether the world is finite or infinite; whether or not the soul and the body are identical; and about the existence of the saint after death. He received no direct reply. Instead the Buddha related a parable: "It is as if a man is hit by a poison arrow. His friends hasten to the doctor. The latter is about to draw the arrow out of the wound. The wounded man however cries: `Stop, I will not have the arrow drawn out until I know who shot it. Whether a warrior or a Brahmin, or belonging to the agricultural or menial castes . . . his name and to which family he belonged . . . of what species and description the arrow is.'" In seeking to attain absolute knowledge of all of the circumstances of the shooting, the man neglected the practical matter of removing the arrow and would certainly die. Similarly, the Buddha asserts that were he to try to elucidate the answer to the questions that Malunkyaputta had put to him, "that person would die before the Tathagata had ever elucidated this to him"

This story speaks to me of the practicalities of the spiritual path, especially in times of urgent need. Sometimes our intellects and philosophical musings need to be put to one side.

 

[Dawnofhope]

When I read through that stuff, it's quite apparent that he and the people who come after are upset with the ways of the Abrahamics up to that point in history. He says things like 'Europe and the rest of the world' but doesn't really understand what was going on in the rest of the world. So it's a very limited vision, and a lot of it is well, frankly, quite 'out there'. I certainly don't have the time to go through it all, but as I read, several ideas jump out at me. For example, in the third one he talks about ending the diversity of religion on this planet. As you can understand, for people like me who love diversity, enjoy it immensely, that's just sad. Sounds like in communism states ... no color.

But to be clear, I think it is an improvement on Islam and on Christianity, but much of the 'innovation' stuff has already been done in various dharmic faiths. So much of it is new to where he was, but not new to the entire world. So the entire message isn't nearly as unique as you would like us to believe.

OK - I read them all - here's an encapsulation of the first few:

Baha'u'llah is the latest prophet (yes I know, more than a prophet but a prophet nonetheless)...prophesying an imminent era of peace...and religious unity...with the "true religion" as the basis of a unified human civilization...under a universal theocracy...in which there are neither poor nor excessively wealthy people...all speaking a universal language...etc. Not much new in that is there? All of these ideas are already clearly present in the Abrahamic traditions in one form or another.

Then there's a series of things about social and international justice - both of which were pressing political issues in the 19th century (just as they have been in all other centuries of human civilization)...the Greeks had inter-state arbitration perhaps as early as the 7th century BCE (for example)...

I suppose we could take them one by one and refute the novelty claims sequentially, but I don't really see the point. Do you?

Thank you both for your considered responses to the links I posted from a introductory book, Baha'u'llah and the new era. Some of these chapters were reviewed by Abdu'l-Baha. @Vinayaka I would recommend if you are interested to read these further as they are all short and relatively easy to understand. You have mentioned on several occasions how difficult it is for you to read Baha'u'llah's writings. This is not an uncommon experience for someone new to His writings and the links provide an assessible insight into what He's saying. @siti , I wondered if you may have skimmed over some important points. I'll provide a brief summary of the Baha'i Teachings that I believe can be distinguished from Christianity. In a later post I will explore possible reasons for these differences.




Baha'u'llah is the long awaited Great Educator and Teacher of many Faith traditions throughout the world. His Teachings transcend previous teachings in other faith traditions.

He has laid a firm foundation for peace throughout the whole world inaugurating an era of world peace. The old world order will be rolled up and a new one unfurled in its place culminating in a world commonwealth.

The necessity of independant investigation of truth

The Oneness of humanity, seeing ourselves as one people regardless of race, nationality, or creed

The Oneness of religion

Erradication of prejudice and superstition

The harmony of religion and science

The equality of men and women

Compulsory education for all, both materially and spiritual. Such knowledge is as wings to the spirit of man.

A common universal language

The establishment of a supreme internation tribunal and cooperation between all nations and peoples for the betterment of the world

An internation court of arbitration

Epistles that address Kings and rulers of the earth

Religion identified as the basis of true civilisation and its necessity to maintain order and tranquility in the world

Reduction of armaments to the extent neccesary to protect one's territories and all nations jointly disposing of weapons of mass destruction

Elimination of extremes of wealth and poverty

Decentralisation of government and resources

Abolition of industrial slavery

God and His Manifestations as the All-knowing and skilled physician that discerns the ills of the world and prescribes the remedy

A new world calendar to accompany the new age, commerating the attributes of God

The establishment, authority, and functioning of spiritual assemblies or House of Justices outlined

The establishment Mashriqu’l-Adhkárs (temples and its accessories) in every city. The basic foundations include a school for orphan children, hospital and dispensary for the poor, home for the incapable, college for the higher scientific education, and hospice.

The importance of the Divine Manifestations in shaping world history and humanity's moral and spiritual development

 

[Dawnofhope]

When I read through that stuff, it's quite apparent that he and the people who come after are upset with the ways of the Abrahamics up to that point in history. He says things like 'Europe and the rest of the world' but doesn't really understand what was going on in the rest of the world. So it's a very limited vision, and a lot of it is well, frankly, quite 'out there'. I certainly don't have the time to go through it all, but as I read, several ideas jump out at me. For example, in the third one he talks about ending the diversity of religion on this planet. As you can understand, for people like me who love diversity, enjoy it immensely, that's just sad. Sounds like in communism states ... no color.

In some ways it is a framework for what Baha'is believe needs to happen. It is 'out there', no doubt about it. It has to be and it makes a lot of sense to me as a plan.

The colour is how the faith adapts and integrates with different cultures. We can clearly see that diversity and cultural expression in the temples, but it would be reflected within the culture of the Baha'is in each land. So I don't think it is colourless at all. Abdu'l-Baha brought the Faith to the West and he longed to travel further abroad in his latter years throughout Asia but with fading health, knew it was not to be. It was those pioneers from the West, particularly North America that travelled to foreign lands, making them their new home, and with love and wisdom establishing the Baha'i faith throughout Asia, South America, and Africa.

No doubt the biggest problem as you highlight is diversity of religion. It seems clear to me, that the Baha'i Faith is more advanced than the other Abrahamic Faiths. Why would a Jew, Christian, or Muslim continue with their religion should they recognise the fulfilment of prophecies within the Baha'i Faith? Its because of attachment to traditions and culture in part.

The Baha'is claim their religion is for this era and that the others to some extent have become outdated and archaic. That is strong language, but I can't see any of the ancient religions fully meeting the needs for humanity now and into the future. As a Hindu you see it differently. You believe in Moksha and reincarnation so the Abrahamics and this new religion have nothing for you. The Christian is similarly bound by his belief in a resurrected God named Jesus, and the Muslims by the conviction that Muhammad is the seal of the prophets. They all live within their worldviews and traditions but they can't all be right. As with all life the old must give way to the new. The religion of God is all for humanity, not just a particualr chosen people or group.

But to be clear, I think it is an improvement on Islam and on Christianity, but much of the 'innovation' stuff has already been done in various dharmic faiths. So much of it is new to where he was, but not new to the entire world. So the entire message isn't nearly as unique as you would like us to believe.

Now I have laid out Baha'u'llah's teaching for today, I think you have a glimpse that the Baha'i Faith is an improvement on Christainity and Islam. But is it an improvement on Buddhism and Hinduism? Within the framework of these ancient Dharmic Faiths is there really the emphasis on these teachings which will remedy the troubles that mankind face, or perhaps a faint glimmer of the future to come like the Abrahamics?

 

[Dawnofhope]

OK - I read them all - here's an encapsulation of the first few:

Baha'u'llah is the latest prophet (yes I know, more than a prophet but a prophet nonetheless)...prophesying an imminent era of peace...and religious unity...with the "true religion" as the basis of a unified human civilization...under a universal theocracy...in which there are neither poor nor excessively wealthy people...all speaking a universal language...etc. Not much new in that is there? All of these ideas are already clearly present in the Abrahamic traditions in one form or another.

Then there's a series of things about social and international justice - both of which were pressing political issues in the 19th century (just as they have been in all other centuries of human civilization)...the Greeks had inter-state arbitration perhaps as early as the 7th century BCE (for example)...

I suppose we could take them one by one and refute the novelty claims sequentially, but I don't really see the point. Do you?

The Manifestations of God are physicians for humanity that perceive the ill of humanity and prescribe the remedy. They are not inventors like Graham Bell or Thomas Edison. I suppose we could link any idea to any other idea. Were Bell and Edison truly original? We could argue that Baha'u'llah simply remoulded democracy and arbitration from the Greeks. The problem with that arguement is that of scale (eg an international commonwealth of 20,000 local and national Baha'i assemblies today worldwide compared to a handful for the Greeks) and character (eg The spiritual qualities required of assembly members who consult together). The Baha'i institutions and their governing principles and sphere of authority within a community, is quite different from the Greeks and democracy today.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank you both for your considered responses to the links I posted from a introductory book, Baha'u'llah and the new era. Some of these chapters were reviewed by Abdu'l-Baha. @Vinayaka I would recommend if you are interested to read these further as they are all short and relatively easy to understand.

Indeed, he's much more to the point, and avoids all the flowery stuff, and there is less redundancy. If I do read further, I'm sure you'll get more critiquing. Not sure you want that.

 

[Dawnofhope]

what i don't understand is how can they claim that bahubali's words are are words of god , so does that mean quran is also words of god as claimed ?
how come god makes a thing like "surah like it" challenge which means that muslims believe that quran is the absolute words of god since no one can replicate the surahs of quran.

According to Baha'i belief God reveals Himself to different peoples at different points in history according to their capacity in a way that is understandable. That is using the language and concepts of the Arabs through Muhammad, and the similar God provided a message to the Jews then the gentiles through Jesus.

so god made a sura like it challenge for quran but not for bahubali? one of them is lieing ..becoz both can't be true.
anyhow someone did beat the surah like it challenge , the site was taken down but it has been done none the less.

how come anyone can so easily claim anything they want in this world in the name of god and keep on pushing the madness .

The evidence for Islam and Christanity is the positive influence Muhammad and Christ have had on millions of souls throughout many centuries.

anytime someone in the desert gets a heatstroke starts a new religion with the strategy of exploiting the prophecy of the next coming and blaming the others to be wrong.

it makes me angry that people refuse to wake up to view the whole picture in its entirety , and they just keep making more noises .

There are not that many religions that have stood the test of time and been readily accepted by peoples in many different cultures. The main ones have been Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. Hinduism has spread through immigration and has mostly been an ethnic faith of the indian subcontinent and its peoples as far as I can see. Correct me if I'm wrong.

how is starting a new religion helping unite ..first there were 5-6 religions fighting each other one correcting the other , now you add one more new religion which is doing the same thing , its fighting all of them to get converted in the name of unity. well that's the very same agenda for the previous ones.. they believe world will get united if all convert to islam or xtianity then there is unity ...
islam = peace if all surrender and convert and have sharia ..bahai = unity if all convert and let them rule the world. xtianity = unity if all convert to xtianity and let the kingdom of god rule.

The problem isn't the new religion as you say. The problem is the intractible misunderstandings between differing faith adherents.

so what's all the new thing god did .. theocracy is also an old plan nothing new about it..

It is the content of the theocracy that is new, not that it is a theocracy.

what are the proofs that bahubali gave for being a manifestation?

The power of His teachings to positive influence and transform the lives of his followers

The example Of Baha'u'llah's life

The fulfilment of prophecies

I don't deliberately mispell the name of the One whom you rever. Why do it to mine?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If you don't care to understand me, just say so.

It may be that we should take the opportunity to understand what was offered by Baha'u'llah, as it is not about me, it is about you understanding your own self.

If you choose to read any of the quote below, the last section reflects what was being said about the Names of the Messengers.

You will note, the Message of Baha'u'llah is a challenge to us all, He makes it clear and does not hold back His purpose;

"Say: O people! Withhold not from yourselves the grace of God and His mercy. Whoso withholdeth himself therefrom is indeed in grievous loss. What, O people! Do ye worship the dust, and turn away from your Lord, the Gracious, the All-Bountiful? Fear ye God, and be not of those who perish. Say: The Book of God hath been sent down in the form of this Youth. Hallowed, therefore, be God, the most excellent of makers! Take ye good heed, O peoples of the world, lest ye flee from His face. Nay, make haste to attain His presence, and be of them that have returned unto Him. Pray to be forgiven, O people, for having failed in your duty towards God, and for having trespassed against His Cause, and be not of the foolish. He it is Who hath created you; He it is Who hath nourished your souls through His Cause, and enabled you to recognize Him Who is the Almighty, the Most Exalted, the All-Knowing. He it is Who hath unveiled to your eyes the treasures of His knowledge, and caused you to ascend unto the heaven of certitude—the certitude of His resistless, His irrefutable, and most exalted Faith. Beware that ye do not deprive yourselves of the grace of God, that ye do not bring to naught your works, and do not repudiate the truth of this most manifest, this lofty, this shining, and glorious Revelation. Judge ye fairly the Cause of God, your Creator, and behold that which hath been sent down from the Throne on high, and meditate thereon with innocent and sanctified hearts. Then will the truth of this Cause appear unto you as manifest as the sun in its noontide glory. Then will ye be of them that have believed in Him.

Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with anyone, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful."

Thus if one has had great tests in life, one must have great capacity, it is up to those tested to find that capacity.

No matter what, I will always wish you well, kind regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Indeed, he's much more to the point, and avoids all the flowery stuff, and there is less redundancy. If I do read further, I'm sure you'll get more critiquing. Not sure you want that.

If its a constructive discussion that is courteous and respectful then that is fine.
If it is just negativity, then best not to continue.

This thread is in the general debate section and I like you, am just defending my faith.

 

[Vinayaka]

They all live within their worldviews and traditions but they can't all be right.

Why not?
This is probably our biggest single difference, and why we will never agree. Not just you and I but the entire two paradigms ... Abrahamic and Dharmic. I do think they are all right. Baha'i' is right for you. Christianity is right for a Christian, Hinduism is right for me. Hindus believe that, sincerely. Our version of God created the many religions and faiths so each of his spawned souls would have a place to suit them. No personality, no degree of evolution of the soul is left out. Everyone gets a spot.

The Abrahamic version takes the other strategy. There just has to be one size that fits all. Once that particular statement is etched in stone in the brain, the entire world view follows. It explains why Abrahamics have missionary zeal. They will go to great lengths to go to far off corners of the globe to tell everyone the 'Good news' of their prophet, whether it be Christ. Baha'u'llah or whomever. The Hindu sees absolutely no need to do this, becuase all those people in those far off corners are doing just fine with whyat God created for THEM.

 

[Vinayaka]

If its a constructive discussion that is courteous and respectful then that is fine.
If it is just negativity, then best not to continue.

This thread is in the general debate section and I like you, am just defending my faith.

I agree. Because I'm so negative, as other Bahai's here think, are you asking me to quit? I can leave right now. I'm sure some would appreciate that.

Glad to have you back, BTW.

 

[Faithofchristian]

First to discover who they are, if they are who they claim they are.

As any prophet that came professing their a prophet, Do we take just for granted that they are who they claim to be?

What about those that will come in our time claiming to be a prophet, Do we take it for granted they are who they will claim to be a prophet.

In to days world people are looking for a prophet to come.
There are some Religious organizations that claim to have a prophet. But are they a true Prophet?

The question is, How or by what will give us how to determine to establish what a true or false prophet is.

Of course no matter how a person goes about it to show to establish how to know the difference between a true and false prophet.
People will not be able to handle it.

For an example, If you go to show people their prophet is a false prophet, They will come in defiance of the evidence that you have brought forward to prove your case no matter how much solid evidence you bring to support your claim they will refute it.

They will know down deep what your producing is solid evidence, but for them to accept it. They would be admitting that their whole religion is all base on a false prophet?
Therefore rather than people to admit this, they will come out in defiance against you.

No matter how much solid evidence you have to support your case. They will Not accept it.

Let's take for instance the christianity Religion. There are those in Christianity that will say, we have a prophet.

Now comes Christ Jesus showing in his own words, Showing how to determine a false prophet.

Christ Jesus in the book of Mark 13:22,23,
Speaking about how false Christ's and false prophets shall rise.

Take note that in Mark chapter 13, that Christ Jesus just foretold all about the end times.Ok

Note that in Mark 13: 23 Christ Jesus saying " But take you heed, behold, I have foretold you all things"

By this statement of Christ Jesus, Jesus is showing that if a person comes to claim to be a prophet and in the giving Prophecy about the end times.

Christ Jesus shows them as being a false prophet, because Christ Jesus has already foretold all things concerning the end times.
This is how to know a false prophet.

But however, these very people who claim to be of Christianity, will even go on the attack of Christ Jesus himself. For saying what he said.
They will refute anything and everything that Christ Jesus will say, just to up hold their prophet as being a prophet. For these very people will claim Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior but will Refute what Christ Jesus will say, Where does that leave you?

Note that a prophet is a teacher, which are also called Pastor's, Preachers, Rabbi.

Therefore "How are these great beings explained"

That all depends on, what Religion you follow,

Because alot of Religion's will not accept them as being great.
So it all depends on what Religion you follow or belong to.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Why not?
This is probably our biggest single difference, and why we will never agree. Not just you and I but the entire two paradigms ... Abrahamic and Dharmic. I do think they are all right. Baha'i' is right for you. Christianity is right for a Christian, Hinduism is right for me. Hindus believe that, sincerely. Our version of God created the many religions and faiths so each of his spawned souls would have a place to suit them. No personality, no degree of evolution of the soul is left out. Everyone gets a spot.

The Abrahamic version takes the other strategy. There just has to be one size that fits all. Once that particular statement is etched in stone in the brain, the entire world view follows. It explains why Abrahamics have missionary zeal. They will go to great lengths to go to far off corners of the globe to tell everyone the 'Good news' of their prophet, whether it be Christ. Baha'u'llah or whomever. The Hindu sees absolutely no need to do this, becuase all those people in those far off corners are doing just fine with whyat God created for THEM.

When Galileo built on the work of Copernicus to provide proofs that the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around I'm sure there were many that disagreed, and even more that couldn't see what the fuss was all about. Does it really matter if we believe the earth is flat and the centre of the universe? As long as we are happy believing what we believe...right? Does it really matter if some believe in Creationism and the earth came into exist less then 10,000 years ago with a happy coexistence of man and dinosaurs not long after?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I agree. Because I'm so negative, as other Bahai's here think, are you asking me to quit? I can leave right now. I'm sure some would appreciate that.

Glad to have you back, BTW.

Good to be back.

I enjoy talking with you.

I don't think you are negative.

 

[Dawnofhope]

“The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions.”

– ‘Abdúl-Bahá