Thou shall not kill!

[Magus]

The Hebrew Verb for to kill; to execute; to put to death is – הָרַג – harag; whereas the Hebrew Verb – רָצַח – ratzaḥ is to murder. There definitely is a difference between these two words. Taking someone’s life during times of war is not murder. Taking someone’s life in self-defense is not murder. Taking someone’s life to save someone else’s life is not murder. Taking someone’s life for no justifiable reason is murder. The Verb ratzaḥ refers exclusively to taking a human life with no justifiable reason.

Sh’mot 20:13 states – לֹא תִּרְצָח – loʾ tir’tzah – “you will not murder.”

Since the Holocaust was during the War, then by your definition, that wasn't murder , millions of children that died during the Iraq War, not murder either, ISIS terrorists didn't murder anyone cos it's a 'Holy War' .

Yet Jews murder Palestinians and steal their homes after the War had finished.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's not redundant. It's vague. Murder is prohibited by the commandment. Which killings constitute murder is separate.
Tom

If "murder" is defined as something like "unlawful killing" or "prohibited killing," then it's prohibited without the commandment.

 

[Profound Realization]

I hate it when people kill spiders. I hate it.

I'll scoop those up on some paper or in a cup and set them free outside.

 

[McBell]

Humans do murder other animals quite frequently, however.

Please be so kind as to present an example of an illegal killing of an animal.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

From Strong's H7523 - ratsach, רָצַח

1. to murder, slay, kill

A (Qal) to murder, slay

1 premeditated

2 accidental

3 as avenger

4 slayer (intentional) (participle)

*grabs popcorn*

And obviously, not everyone agrees with you.

Exodus 20:13

KJ21 Thou shalt not kill.

ASV Thou shalt not kill.

BRG Thou shalt not kill.

CEB Do not kill.

DARBY Thou shalt not kill.

DRA Thou shalt not kill.

GNV Thou shalt not kill.

KJV Thou shalt not kill.

AKJV Thou shalt not kill.

NABRE You shall not kill.

NLV Do not kill other people.

RSV You shall not kill.

RSVCE You shall not kill.

WYC Thou shalt not slay. (Thou shalt not kill.)

When they made the Tanakh in to the OT, they go so much wrong that personally I don't consider Christian perspectives to be highly credible in knowing what the Tanakh actually says. For that I try to turn to Jewish of Academic sources.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Please be so kind as to present an example of an illegal killing of an animal.

Although it's legal, personally I consider trophy killing and just killing for fun and pleasure to be murder.

 

[Profound Realization]

Please be so kind as to present an example of an illegal killing of an animal.

I thought that humans were animals? No?

 

[Magus]

Exodus 20:13 uses the Phoenician word 'רצח' (Ratsah) with the negative particle ' לא ( do not ),
the word ''רצח' (Ratsah) also means 'break into pieces' and is cognate with the Greek 'ἀράσσω' (Arasso) ' break into pieces / Smite '

' Don't Smite '
לא רצח
οὐ ἀράσσω

 

[Spiderman]

There is no such commandment.

The commandment, in Hebrew, reads - לא תרצח - You shall not murder. There is a difference.

When God commanded the Israelites to annihilate women and children, was that ever murder?

 

[columbus]

When God commanded the Israelites to annihilate women and children, was that ever murder?

This sort of thing is why religious/Scriptural ethics are so problematic. They were created by primitive people. In this case the problem is that the prohibition against murder didn't cover foreigners. They weren't seen as people exactly.
Ethics have improved a great deal since then, and religionists commonly want to retrofit modern morals into Scripture. But it just isn't there, so it's always somebody's interpretation of what God or the Prophets must have meant (as opposed to what's actually there).

I see this in abortion debates all the time. There is no prohibition stated, or even implied. Given the culture and worldviews most prevalent, they wouldn't have considered a fetus alive. If the father wanted the pregnancy to end that would have been that. But modern religious people often insist on retrofitting their opinions into Scripture.
Tom

 

[1robin]

One of the Ten Commandants is, Thou shall not kill. Does this apply to animals as well? Should I feel guilty eating meat if animals are regarded as God's precious creations?

The original Hebrew does not translate as thou shall not kill, but as though shall not murder. God knows fully well nations and citizens must defend themselves.

As far as animals go humans have been granted sovereignty over all other life forms on Earth but we are held responsible for a stewardship over what was put under our care.

 

[james dixon]

A bunch of crows?

Get a few outdoor cats and the problem will go away overnight

just a suggestion

 

[james dixon]

As far as animals go humans have been granted sovereignty over all other life forms on Earth but we are held responsible for a stewardship over what was put under our care.

I am one of those folks who believe this planet was seeded by traveler’s passing by; just as we will seed a planet in our far-off future. (if we do not destroy ourselves first)

And I believe they are watching us today and they will not reveal themselves until we stop eating/killing other living animals/fish/birds. Having said that, I can assure you, they are not going to say hello any time soon.

-

 

[Diak (Jack) Anosh]

One of the Ten Commandants is, Thou shall not kill. Does this apply to animals as well? Should I feel guilty eating meat if animals are regarded as God's precious creations?

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Genesis 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.

 

[QuestioningMind]

There is no such commandment.

The commandment, in Hebrew, reads - לא תרצח - You shall not murder. There is a difference.

Geez, the translators couldn't even get the Big 10 correct... makes you wonder how many other errors they made.

 

[Mister Silver]

What always surprises me is people thinking that it was perfectly okay to kill until the bible came along with a law from a supposed god written right there in the book.

Some people truly are gullible.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Not sure what you're getting at? Murder is proscribed and clearly defined. Killing is stopping someone or something from living. Murder always involves killing, but killing is not necessarily murder. There is very little, if any, grey area in the two.

I believe the point trying to be made is that since murder IS a legal term, its definition is going to change depending upon the specific legal system you're dealing with. What's considered to be murder in one legal system may not be considered murder in another. So is the bible saying do not commit what is considered to be murder in whatever society you happen to live in, or does God have a definition of murder that everyone is supposed to abide by?

 

[Quintessence]

I hate it when people kill spiders. I hate it.

Yeah, I aim to not let it bother me. But when someone does it, I do grumble "murderer" in their direction. They think I'm being funny, so I let them believe that... but really... I'm not.

No we kill other animals frequently, for food.

Murder of an animal would mean killing it for sport or fun with no intention to use it for food/clothing and the many other purposes you can use an animal for.

... which humans also do pretty frequently.

Please be so kind as to present an example of an illegal killing of an animal.

Why would I provide you with examples of that when legality/illegality is unrelated how I am using the term in this thread? I mean, I could *cough*poaching*cough*, but why would I waste my time doing that? It's besides my point.

 

[BSM1]

I understand that this is your position. What I'm saying is that this makes the commandment redundant ("prohibited killing is prohibited"), so I would like you to explain why you think the author of the passage would have put effort into writing something that communicates nothing meaningful.

Still not sure which dead horse you're trying to beat. There was a lot of killin' in the Old Testament that was Heaven Sanctioned (Canaan and Jericho come to mind, not to mention Goliath) but murder was always verboten. The word murder, of course, should be substituted for the word killing in this Commandment.

 

[BSM1]

I believe the point trying to be made is that since murder IS a legal term, its definition is going to change depending upon the specific legal system you're dealing with. What's considered to be murder in one legal system may not be considered murder in another. So is the bible saying do not commit what is considered to be murder in whatever society you happen to live in, or does God have a definition of murder that everyone is supposed to abide by?

Huh??