How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

All I can say is it's for us to show loving kindness to them and all humanity and never to judge. It's a matter for their own conscience.

I'm sure there are many gay Baha'is but to me all Baha'is are human beings. I don't distinguish between them just accept them. We are taught to basically focus on the good in others so we are not interested in things like other people's sins or shortcomings but we are told to focus on our own sins and others good qualities.

None of us is perfect so none of us is in a position to judge others. I see the Face of God in gay people just the same as I do Baha'is no difference to me. But I'm often hard on myself because I know my own self better and my own faults and I have all my work cut out trying to correct my own faults let alone be busy with others.

As Vinayaka said he probably wouldn't want to meet some people here and I'm likely one of them but I would consider it a pleasure having a coffee or a vegetarian meal with you both.

Hmm. I'd probably get annoyed because you all have too much in common. Mind as well be a married couple (pun intended) where you finish each other's sentences etc. How do you learn from people just like you? Don't think I got an answer. But I never asked you.

 

[CG Didymus]

One must be fair, we live in Australia and the Cattle Industry is big.

It is hard to imagine this would stop overnight. If fact it will not. Australians are big meat eaters.

Your arguement goes against logic. Yes individuals can and do make choices. On a large scale change will take time.

Be well and regards Tony

Aussies probably put away a few Foster's at the Pub too, but I'll bet most Baha'is quit drinking beer.

 

[CG Didymus]

How did the Christains know of the True intent of the Torah, they did so by accepting Christ. Prior to Christ no Jew had that choice, after Christ gave His Message, they all had a choice. Most stuck to the old way and old teachings, they missed accepting Gods continuing Covernant.

We all have the choice.

Look at history it is our greatest teacher and it repeats itself like seasons. Ancient beliefs also reflect this aspect of Faith in God and this material world.

Regards Tony

Intent of the Torah? As I remember Paul says that the purpose of the Law was to show people that they couldn't obey it... that they were all guilty of sin and the only way they could get be forgiven was to accept Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross. How do you see the intent of the Torah, and then the intent of the NT?

 

[CG Didymus]

That they are human beings and entitled to be treated as any other person.

Let me try and put it another way. Although our laws don't provide for same sex marriage, if Baha'is mistreated homosexuals then we would be sanctioned and disciplined. So although our laws forbid homosexuality, our laws also forbid mistreatment of them by Baha'is.

So if we went online and bashed homosexuals we would get into very serious trouble indeed. We can't provide marriage for them but they are human beings and we are expected to treat them with courtesy, dignity and love or face the consequences.

Okay, that's great. Unfortunately there are people Baha'is do alienate right here on this thread and that's people from the other religions. How should Baha'is interact with people from the other religions that doesn't lead to disagreements?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hmm. I'd probably get annoyed because you all have too much in common. Mind as well be a married couple (pun intended) where you finish each other's sentences etc. How do you learn from people just like you? Don't think I got an answer. But I never asked you.

Baha'is are all very different to each other so we learn from each other's diversity.

 

[CG Didymus]

We can only each go our own way.

We have opposite views on the topic so all we can do is both sides go their own way. Just like we have no right to force homosexuals to accept our religion so too we can't be expected to give up our beliefs.

Even though it is forbidden in Christianity and the Baha'i Faith, in Judaism and Islam isn't there laws that say to kill homosexuals?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Okay, that's great. Unfortunately there are people Baha'is do alienate right here on this thread and that's people from the other religions. How should Baha'is interact with people from the other religions that doesn't lead to disagreements?

I'll be the first to put up my hand. I've probably offended a dozen people a dozen times but not intentionally just through unwisdom. I'm learning but I'm trying to be better.

My intention is never to alienate anyone so I'll just keep trying but thanks everyone for putting up with me. I agree I can be a pain.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Even though it is forbidden in Christianity and the Baha'i Faith, in Judaism and Islam isn't there laws that say to kill homosexuals?

I don't think there are any laws in the Quran to that effect but maybe in the Old Testament.

But with laws thousands of years ago like stoning and crucifying and cutting off hands etc, they were temporary measures. Today we are able to deal in a more humane way with these thungs and should.

 

[Ingledsva]

Here's a clear cut explanation for all of this.
Took awhile. Unfortunately, I can't go into it much deeper than this. Human sexuality is so extensive. It feels like I'm living in a whole not realizing that if people had the chance (cause I've seen it almost done before), they would actually still hurt homosexuals for a word many LGBTQ don't even identify as.

Problem is. People walk away from religion because of this... and I can't imagine one god doesn't care about human sexuality in regards to whose attracted to who while another god does care. So, unless someone wants to bring out some scripture or something to actually talk about,

I dont' think you'll get anywhere. Also, all of the bold and black and red really puts a hurtin' on the eyes.

Sorry about all the red. I really-really wanted to point out the inconsistencies in what they are ultimately preaching.

*

 

[oldbadger]

But, within the Baha'is there was still different clicks and a hierarchy. My Baha'i friends were on the fringe. They were more into the Peace Movements of the 70's and 80's. Others got into the Baha'i "Administrative Order", which means serving on the Spiritual Assembly and actually running the Baha'i community.

That is just such an accurate observation of Bahai in the 70's!
I knew Bahais who I would now describe as being like Universal Unitarians.
Layed back. Adopting any beautiful or peaceful doctrines.

 

[Ingledsva]

How did the Christains know of the True intent of the Torah, they did so by accepting Christ. Prior to Christ no Jew had that choice, after Christ gave His Message, they all had a choice. Most stuck to the old way and old teachings, they missed accepting Gods continuing Covernant.
We all have the choice.
Look at history it is our greatest teacher and it repeats itself like seasons. Ancient beliefs also reflect this aspect of Faith in God and this material world.

Regards Tony

Christians obviously DON'T know the true intent of Torah. They can't even get the texts right.

If the Jews are YHVH's special people, - obviously they do not need Christianity and Jesus, or the Baha'i religion.

Choice? The choice stuff is made up by Christians, and again, - has nothing to do with the Jewish faith.

It is YOU - other newer religions, - that made up the idea that the Jews "missed" accepting God's covenant. I don't see how that works in your minds, when supposedly they made the covenant in the first place.

*

 

[oldbadger]

Aussies probably put away a few Foster's at the Pub too, but I'll bet most Baha'is quit drinking beer.

I've dobbed you in..... when @lewisnotmiller sees that he will probably rant and rave. Australians don't see, buy or ever drink Fosters. They despise....... Fosters!

 

[Ingledsva]

My understanding is it will be as it is now. We each go our own way. Right now the same sex marriage movement is promoting its agenda all over the world and do you see Baha'is protesting or opposing it? No, we go our own way and walk our own path and leave them to walk their path.

In a Baha'i world it will be the same.

How could it be the same - when Baha'i want to be in power?

" Bahá’u’lláh states that the knowledge of God is revealed through His Manifestation,

"“In the religion of God, there is no freedom of action outside the law of God"

That means if your religion took power, - there would be No freedom outside your religious laws.

Not for me - ever.

PS - Right to marriage and children is not an evil or immoral "agenda".

*

 

[Ingledsva]

One only becomes a Baha'i if he or she fully believes in its teachings. Some people don't become Baha'is because drinking or gambling is forbidden and they want to continue to drink & gamble.

It only makes sense to join any religion if you are fully committed to its laws. It's the same with the other teachings. If you didn't believe in world peace you wouldn't join a religion which teaches it.

Why would a person become a Baha'i if they disagreed with its laws and teachings? It would make no sense.

Homosexuality is not a belief - or choice. It is a fact of birth. And thus it would make no sense for a God to condemn such people. It also lets me know that religions that push such ideas are not actually from any God. If there is a God, - it would not be so stupid as to allow it's creation to produce homosexual babies, - and then condemn them to hell for being homosexual. Ridiculous.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

I don't think there are any laws in the Quran to that effect but maybe in the Old Testament.

But with laws thousands of years ago like stoning and crucifying and cutting off hands etc, they were temporary measures. Today we are able to deal in a more humane way with these thungs and should.

They were "temporary measures"? They were evil and not of any God.

Qur'an (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

and Hadiths -

Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.".

Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."

al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."

*

 

[loverofhumanity]

They were "temporary measures"? They were evil and not of any God.

Qur'an (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

and Hadiths -

Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.".

Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."

al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."

*

All the Holy Books have only ever supported marriage between a man and a woman. Mother Nature too only permits natural procreation in the human race between opposite genders.

But discrimination and mistreatment of homosexuals is clearly wrong. They should never be harmed but always accepted as fellow human beings.

 

[Ingledsva]

All the Holy Books have only ever supported marriage between a man and a woman. Mother Nature too only permits natural procreation in the human race between opposite genders.

But discrimination and mistreatment of homosexuals is clearly wrong. They should never be harmed but always accepted as fellow human beings.

Actually NO, as far as I know, - just the Abrahamic religions allow only marriage between a man and woman.

Gay people have been marrying throughout history. We have a gay couple portrayed on an ancient Egyptian building, and even a couple of Roman Emperors whom married men, etc.

Forgot to add that most animals in the animal kingdom have homosexuality.

*

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Aussies probably put away a few Foster's at the Pub too, but I'll bet most Baha'is quit drinking beer.

There is no law on diet. There are some hunting laws.

We are advised when we consider the law of kindness to animals, that man will not want to eat meat in the future.

I gave up Alcohol immediatly in 1984 and have not had a drop since. Never missed it, as did not like beer anyway.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Homosexuality is not a belief - or choice. It is a fact of birth. And thus it would make no sense for a God to condemn such people. It also lets me know that religions that push such ideas are not actually from any God. If there is a God, - it would not be so stupid as to allow it's creation to produce homosexual babies, - and then condemn them to hell for being homosexual. Ridiculous.

*

My understanding is God knows all these things and if He still says it's a morality issue then He would know as He created us.

It seems that God rejects the argument that homosexuality is acquired at birth and that would explain why He does not approve of it.

But He leaves people to go their own way. That's all we can do too. Just go our own way and walk the path we believe is right and moral and let others go their way,

 

[loverofhumanity]

They were "temporary measures"? They were evil and not of any God.

Qur'an (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

and Hadiths -

Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.".

Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."

al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."

*

God has the right to His own opinion.

But the Hadiths are not from God. Hadiths are not the Word of God only the Quran is.

Many hadiths were formulated by Muhammad's enemies to misrepresent Islam. The only authentic verified Word of God accepted by all Muslims is the Quran. Baha'is don't accept hadiths either as they are unreliable whereas the Quran is fully authenticated.