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How are these Great Beings explained?

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
From the above site - some quotes -

"Dear Bahá’í Friend,

Your email letter dated 11 January 2014 has been received by the Universal House of Justice. We have been asked to convey to you the following."

"Various philosophies and theories have eroded precepts of right and wrong that govern personal behavior. For some, relativism reigns and individuals are to determine their own moral preferences; others dismiss the very conception of personal morality, maintaining that any standard that restrains what is considered a natural impulse is harmful to the individual and ultimately to society. Self- indulgence, in the guise of expressing one’s true nature, becomes the norm, even the touchstone of healthy living."

"The perspective presented in the Bahá’í writings departs sharply from the pattern of thought achieving ascendancy in many societies. Bahá’u’lláh states that the knowledge of God is revealed through His Manifestation,

"“In the religion of God, there is no freedom of action outside the law of God,” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá concludes. “Man may not transgress this law, even though no harm is inflicted on one’s neighbor. This is because the purpose of Divine law is the education of all—others as well as oneself—and, in the sight of God, the harm done to one individual or to his neighbor is the same and is reprehensible in both cases.”

Think about those last three sentences with RED highlighting, - and what a Baha'i run world would be like.

"Just as Bahá’ís do not impose their views on others, they cannot relinquish their principles because of changing trends in popular thought. The pattern of life to which they aspire, Shoghi Effendi writes, can tolerate no compromise with the theories, the standards, the habits, and the excesses of a decadent age.”

"To accept Bahá’u’lláh is to accept His Teachings, including those that pertain to personal morality, even if one must struggle to live up to His standard. It would be a profound contradiction for someone to profess to be a Bahá’í, yet reject, disregard, or contend with aspects of belief or practice He ordained.

"His Teachings are a safeguard for one’s true nature and purpose."

"You are, of course, well aware of the explicit Bahá’í standard. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman, and sexual relations are only permissible between husband and wife. These points are laid down in the writings of Bahá’u’lláh, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, and Shoghi Effendi and are not subject to change by the Universal House of Justice. Bahá’u’lláh also prohibits certain sexual acts, including homosexual relations; if such statements are considered by some to be unclear, the unambiguous interpretations provided by Shoghi Effendi constitute a binding exposition of His intent. The Guardian’s interpretations, made in his role as the authoritative expounder, clarify the true meaning of the Text and are not derived from the scientific knowledge of the time.

"The Guardian made it clear that Bahá’ís with a homosexual orientation should not withdraw from the community and should receive its support and encouragement. The House of Justice sympathizes deeply with those individuals, and their families, who strive in this respect to understand and hold fast to the Teachings while buffeted by the controversy unfolding within their societies.


Not a future society that I want to live in.

Everybody is wonderful if you follow their religious laws. Messengers supposedly appeared to all "accepted" religions, meaning = patriarchal = man still above woman and in power, no homosexuality, no tolerance, or compromise, concerning views other than their prophet's words from "GOD."

Nope!

*

Here's a clear cut explanation for all of this.

You have labeled a person in regards to sexual orientation, I do not.

They can accept Baha'u'llah and as others must obey the Laws of God.

I will not discuss this any further.

Took awhile. Unfortunately, I can't go into it much deeper than this. Human sexuality is so extensive. It feels like I'm living in a whole not realizing that if people had the chance (cause I've seen it almost done before), they would actually still hurt homosexuals for a word many LGBTQ don't even identify as.

Problem is. People walk away from religion because of this... and I can't imagine one god doesn't care about human sexuality in regards to whose attracted to who while another god does care. So, unless someone wants to bring out some scripture or something to actually talk about,

I dont' think you'll get anywhere. Also, all of the bold and black and red really puts a hurtin' on the eyes.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
You make your own choice, thus you do not have to even consider these Laws, nor do you have to imply they are wrong to those that do choose to follow them.

Baha'u'llah has foretold what reaction His Message will receive and how it would unfold in time.

Be well and be happy.

Regards Tony

Except that we have been discussing Baha'i wanting to become the world power.

If they did, that would include - Bahá’u’lláh states that the knowledge of God is revealed through His Manifestation,

"“In the religion of God, there is no freedom of action outside the law of God"

No freedom outside your religious laws? NOPE!


*
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
I see. So there are no LGBTQ Baha'i'. Then nobody would have to decide anything. An LGBTQ wouldn't qualify. It would be the same as a poor person not being able to travel for lack of funds, or you not being able to vote in my country.

One only becomes a Baha'i if he or she fully believes in its teachings. Some people don't become Baha'is because drinking or gambling is forbidden and they want to continue to drink & gamble.

It only makes sense to join any religion if you are fully committed to its laws. It's the same with the other teachings. If you didn't believe in world peace you wouldn't join a religion which teaches it.

Why would a person become a Baha'i if they disagreed with its laws and teachings? It would make no sense.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Personally, I think it can also be much worse in real life. In fact, I know it is. Huge disappointments sometimes. I would have to meditate on whether or not I'd actually like to meet some of the people from this forum.

I didn't know whether to laugh or give you a heart because I was thinking the same thing. Actually, a couple of people I'd like to meet. We butt-heads but we stuck with it and actually ended the conversation. I don't think he learned anything, though. Actually, I don't think anyone has said they learned from me in regards to spirituality unless I'm sharing what I know to seekers who ask.

I am glad I'm going back teaching ESL to adults-first class tomorrow-because I have a passion of giving knowledge and I didn't know it was in teaching until the volunteer organization just threw me in the wolves. It's always a powerful feeling when you have someone 80 years old (one time) come to learn English so she can speak to her grandchildren. I think its mostly bias that separates people. Guess it depends on the religion too. People can be the nicest of people but then switch all because of the religion they converted to.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
One only becomes a Baha'i if he or she fully believes in its teachings. Some people don't become Baha'is because drinking or gambling is forbidden and they want to continue to drink & gamble.

It only makes sense to join any religion if you are fully committed to its laws. It's the same with the other teachings. If you didn't believe in world peace you wouldn't join a religion which teaches it.

Why would a person become a Baha'i if they disagreed with its laws and teachings? It would make no sense.

If a virgin homosexual became Bahai, would he, if he agreed to all the teachings, be going against the teachings? If he agreed to all the teachings and is still homosexual, would there be a conflict in beliefs or just a play with words?

This is short so I hope you read it.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Certainly not in my version of Hinduism. Wise teachers, yes.

Krishna is included in their succession of Manifestations of God.

They accept you guys as valid, because they say your differences represent different points of view looking at the ONE Absolute.

Did you notice that all of their "accepted" manifestations are MALE?



*
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
One only becomes a Baha'i if he or she fully believes in its teachings. Some people don't become Baha'is because drinking or gambling is forbidden and they want to continue to drink & gamble.

It only makes sense to join any religion if you are fully committed to its laws. It's the same with the other teachings. If you didn't believe in world peace you wouldn't join a religion which teaches it.

Why would a person become a Baha'i if they disagreed with its laws and teachings? It would make no sense.

You told me yourself you became Baha'i' simply because the people were so nice. But that's off topic.

So I can safely conclude there are no gay Baha'i's? If there are, they are living a lie.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Krishna is included in their succession of Manifestations of God.

They accept you guys as valid, because they say your differences represent different points of view looking at the ONE Absolute.

Did you notice that all of their "accepted" manifestations are MALE?

*

I'm not a Vaishnavite, so don't believe in Krishna as God, but they (Baha'i) have treated me as one almost this entire thread despite being told repeatedly what I just told you.

Yes, I noticed, and of course they are all men. That is the nature of Abrahamic faiths. So too is God male.

In one main version of Hinduism, God is female, and in my version, we don't believe in prophets or manifestations or avatars period. Hinduism is really vast, and diverse. The Baha'i' picked the sect that is closest to their view, had the least amount of misinterpreting to make it fit, and pretended it was the only Hindu way. That's partly why I came to this thread in the first place. To clear up all the misconception.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
If a virgin homosexual became Bahai, would he, if he agreed to all the teachings, be going against the teachings? If he agreed to all the teachings and is still homosexual, would there be a conflict in beliefs or just a play with words?

This is short so I hope you read it.

Hi Carlita. Do you mean agreeing verbally or in practice and deed as well?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You told me yourself you became Baha'i' simply because the people were so nice. But that's off topic.

So I can safely conclude there are no gay Baha'i's? If there are, they are living a lie.

You can see from the replies of the Universal House of Justice that they are replying to gay Baha'is so of course there would be plenty of gay Baha'is.

The thing is, if they are living a lie or not is a matter between them, their own conscience and God and not for me to judge. I'm trying to shower love on all humanity unconditionally nothing else and focus entirely on my own faults and shortcomings while only seeing the good in others.

The people that first taught me about the Baha'i Faith were gay Baha'is. They were the most kind, beautiful, welcoming, compassionate people I had ever met and to this day I remain eternally grateful for their loving kindness. That's how I see them always to this day.

I can't find fault with gay people. They are mostly very kind and good, caring people.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hi Carlita. Do you mean agreeing verbally or in practice and deed as well?

By identity-so I guess verbally.

Many homosexuals don't identify their sexual orientation by actions just attractions at bare minimum textbook definition.

I was reading about how to be a Catholic priest. What are the requirements. One requirement is you can't even say you are homosexual or identity as LGBTQ. In another part of the Church, they have a conversion program that if you're LGBTQ you can't identify as that because they are converting you to be straight.

I don't know if this is similar to the views of Bahai but verbally I guess is close. I'd say identify as a gay (so forth) person.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Except that we have been discussing Baha'i wanting to become the world power.

If they did, that would include - Bahá’u’lláh states that the knowledge of God is revealed through His Manifestation,

"“In the religion of God, there is no freedom of action outside the law of God"

No freedom outside your religious laws? NOPE!


*

My understanding is it will be as it is now. We each go our own way. Right now the same sex marriage movement is promoting its agenda all over the world and do you see Baha'is protesting or opposing it? No, we go our own way and walk our own path and leave them to walk their path.

In a Baha'i world it will be the same.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
That's quite a church.

It sounds as if you were one of the good looking ones who wasn't shy. Do you think there was any down side to your youthful exploits or perhaps its something you would encourage all young people to engage in?
The conservative, fundy church had a lot of people that were sexually repressed. And the ones that were fooling around tried to keep it secret. So in the church, there is no good way of dealing with sex, especially with per-marital sex, because of the guilt most young Christians feel when they do it.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Yes there are passages that make it clear that Christ talked of all Humanity. "Many sheep I have that are not of this fold".

Also when Christ asked Peter “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

This is what Christ said He would build the whole Faith on. Not on the Name of the flesh known as Jesus, but on the knowledge Jesus was "Christ" (The Annointed One) in the Station of the Son, this is the path to God.

This Is why Christ can be the First and be the last Messenger of God. It is God that Annoints His Messengers with the same Holy Spirit. They are not of this world and this is why we are asked to look at them for proof.

Regards Tony
And how do you know this? Only because of the Baha'i Faith. Prior to the Baha'i Faith, what were Christians to believe? They had two choices follow Satan and the ways of the world or believe in Jesus and be saved. The Church leaders had the verses to prove all of this and preached it every Sunday for hundreds of years.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
By identity-so I guess verbally.

Many homosexuals don't identify their sexual orientation by actions just attractions at bare minimum textbook definition.

I was reading about how to be a Catholic priest. What are the requirements. One requirement is you can't even say you are homosexual or identity as LGBTQ. In another part of the Church, they have a conversion program that if you're LGBTQ you can't identify as that because they are converting you to be straight.

I don't know if this is similar to the views of Bahai but verbally I guess is close. I'd say identify as a gay (so forth) person.

All I can say is it's for us to show loving kindness to them and all humanity and never to judge. It's a matter for their own conscience.

I'm sure there are many gay Baha'is but to me all Baha'is are human beings. I don't distinguish between them just accept them. We are taught to basically focus on the good in others so we are not interested in things like other people's sins or shortcomings but we are told to focus on our own sins and others good qualities.

None of us is perfect so none of us is in a position to judge others. I see the Face of God in gay people just the same as I do Baha'is no difference to me. But I'm often hard on myself because I know my own self better and my own faults and I have all my work cut out trying to correct my own faults let alone be busy with others.

As Vinayaka said he probably wouldn't want to meet some people here and I'm likely one of them but I would consider it a pleasure having a coffee or a vegetarian meal with you both.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And how do you know this? Only because of the Baha'i Faith. Prior to the Baha'i Faith, what were Christians to believe? They had two choices follow Satan and the ways of the world or believe in Jesus and be saved. The Church leaders had the verses to prove all of this and preached it every Sunday for hundreds of years.

How did the Christains know of the True intent of the Torah, they did so by accepting Christ. Prior to Christ no Jew had that choice, after Christ gave His Message, they all had a choice. Most stuck to the old way and old teachings, they missed accepting Gods continuing Covernant.

We all have the choice.

Look at history it is our greatest teacher and it repeats itself like seasons. Ancient beliefs also reflect this aspect of Faith in God and this material world.

Regards Tony
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
I'm not a Vaishnavite, so don't believe in Krishna as God, but they (Baha'i) have treated me as one almost this entire thread despite being told repeatedly what I just told you.

Yes, I noticed, and of course they are all men. That is the nature of Abrahamic faiths. So too is God male.

In one main version of Hinduism, God is female, and in my version, we don't believe in prophets or manifestations or avatars period. Hinduism is really vast, and diverse. The Baha'i' picked the sect that is closest to their view, had the least amount of misinterpreting to make it fit, and pretended it was the only Hindu way. That's partly why I came to this thread in the first place. To clear up all the misconception.

Well I was very ignorant on that matter and now I've learnt something very important thanks to your patience in explaining it to me and I'm very grateful to you for pointing it out.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
There is also this 'Are you a member?" focus that some groups have. Not sure how that one is in Baha'i'. Perhaps you know?
Since Baha'is aren't perfect, there was always "We" or "Us and them". Even if all they are saying is Baha'is and non-Baha'is, that's still insinuating that to be a member, you knew things and accepted things that non-believers don't know.

But, within the Baha'is there was still different clicks and a hierarchy. My Baha'i friends were on the fringe. They were more into the Peace Movements of the 70's and 80's. Others got into the Baha'i "Administrative Order", which means serving on the Spiritual Assembly and actually running the Baha'i community.
 
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