How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

You've said this before several times too. It's getting redundant. Anything new?

What if it's not? Right now on this planet you're outnumbered by about 1000 to one in that belief, lol?

But His Teachings are being adopted by the world. They are not redundant.

 

[Vinayaka]

Ok but these Beings influence all humanity all the time and even after They've passed away so how can They not be from God that is the debate?

In my view, they have had no more historical impact than other famous people. Hitler, JFK, Alexander the Great etc. The only differences is that people believe that they had impact. Every single being is emanated from God. So they're no more 'of God' that you or me, but perhaps their particular delusion (or that of their followers) was greater. This is going way back to square one when I answered the thread question, according to my Hindu school.

 

[Vinayaka]

But His Teachings are being adopted by the world. They are not redundant.

You misunderstood. It's your repetition of the same stuff ad inifinitum that is redundant.

 

[oldbadger]

What you have not considered is that they can know each other for years before they decide to marry and make an engagement. It is after the engagement that the marriage must be within 90 days.

Now Baha'u'llah has advised that each must get to know each other as good as they can before they make a commitment. Also consider it is chastity before marriage.

Thanks for your reply....
For years........ get to know each other for years...... in chastity.

That is such a dreadfully sad instruction, because a couple DOES NOT KNOW each other until they understand each other sexually.

To me, the term 'To know each other...' means exactly that...... to understand each other sexually.

And so these poor couples walk into marriage just like those poor Grenfell Tower residents followed their written instructions, to stay in their flats in the event of fire. I don't usually grasp for analogies, but that one fits, because both instructions are sending people who trust into various kinds of hell.

It's no good. Education to deter and protect from STDs is what our young folks need, at school, and there again, in a Bahai World I would not expect STD protections for the young to be much of a hit with Bahai education authorities.

If you extend Bahauallah's beautiful writings, polluted with the ideas of others, into the far distant future of a Bahai World, you get...... a very sad place.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

My point is not that your belief is wrong. It's your belief. My overall point is it is not christianity, not even close to what it teaches.

Here, we need to be clear, what you mean by 'Christianity'.

If you mean, by 'Christianity', what Christian denominations teach today, then I agree, that what they teach in some main instances are different from the teachings of Bahai Faith.

However, I do not believe, Christian denominations get to define 'Christianity'. It is the teachings of Christ and His apostles as described in Bible, are what define the Christianity.
In this case, in the Bahai view, the Bahai Faith teaches exactly the true and original Christianity.

You're changing the bible that you're saying in order to know christianity i need to read bahaullah's words not christ's.

No, i do not believe Bahai Faith changes the Bible. You would need to support your claim, by comparing the verses of Bible with Bahai Scriptures, and show the Bahai Faith changed them. You have not done this, just saying it over and over again.

I find that totally inappropriate.

I find it the right of every human, to have their own view on Bible, or any other books. I find it the right of every human being to express their view.
The Bahais and everyone else does it, and there is nothing anyone can do, whether like it or not.

 

[oldbadger]

..............obedience to and consideration for her husband................

If I showed that to Mrs Badger........ she would thump me.

 

[oldbadger]

Sorry. But I posted to you instead of Ingledsva. Wasn't your post I meant to address so sincere apologies. Sorry.

No Probs!
This thread just goes on........ no matter what the criticisms, you know what media gurus say....... all publicity is good publicity.

Many months ago I mentioned to Adrian about bad publicity against Bahai in the Surrey area, UK, ....50 years ago..... crazy claims such as 'Bahais indulge in orgies' and 'worship full moons' and really libellous stuff. That same month there was a public meeting about Bahai at Guildford University, and whereas previously such meetings had been empty halls, the venue was crammed to overflowing.

Although my criticisms are genuine, I do respect all of you for your good manners.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Here, we need to be clear, what you mean by 'Christianity'.

Salvation through Christ life, death, and resurrection via the service to humanity as one body of Christ.

If you mean, by 'Christianity', what Christian denominations teach today, then I agree, that what they teach in some main instances are different from the teachings of Bahai Faith.

The Passion doesn't teach about Bahaullah etc; so, Bahai faith is pretty much Bahai faith. Christianity through Bahai faith isn't Christianity.

However, I do not believe, Christian denominations get to define 'Christianity'. It is the teachings of Christ and His apostles as described in Bible, are what define the Christianity.

It's through Christ's body-the people-that define christianity. You're putting too little faith in the body (hence christ) and putting more emphasis on scripture.

In this case, in the Bahai view, the Bahai Faith teaches exactly the true and original Christianity.

If you like. I agree with Christians since it's the Christian faith. Even the Bible doesn't speak of Bahai belief. Though, the bible points to christ not the other way around. I gave scripture on that. Don't know if you read it in context.

No, i do not believe Bahai Faith changes the Bible. You would need to support your claim, by comparing the verses of Bible with Bahai Scriptures, and show the Bahai Faith changed them. You have not done this, just saying it over and over again.

Bahaullah in the burning bush is a huge huge opposition from Jewish faith. Unless bahaullah is god no, Moses didn't talk to anyone other than god. Where in the bible does it say the person behind the burning bush was Bahallauh? I mean, I can give you scripture Moses went to god but will you believe it (since you believe in scripture) or would you believe what Bahaullah says about scripture?

There's a difference.

I find it the right of every human, to have their own view on Bible, or any other books. I find it the right of every human being to express their view.

For me, it's not my view but the body of christ view. If I spoke from my view, it's not christian at all. From my experience, that's a different story. But a few Bahai here invalidate my experiences as proof but yet take Moses and John's experiences as if time period validates one experience over another. Shrugs.

The Bahais and everyone else does it, and there is nothing anyone can do, whether like it or not.

I'm glad I don't do it. It's like saying "everyone else kills. There is nothing anyone can do whether we like it or not." Though we have a choice not to kill.

Maybe you don't see the inappropriateness in it. Who knows.

 

[Vinayaka]

If I showed that to Mrs Badger........ she would thump me.

Boss would laugh at me, then tell me to go find a more 'compatible' spouse.

 

[Vinayaka]

The Bahais and everyone else does it, and there is nothing anyone can do, whether like it or not.

Not true. Many people have no opinion at all, or hold certain writings as irrelevant. I have never read the Bible, never will read the Bible, and could care less what's in the Bible. Again, not to sound repetitive, but ... not all faiths are scripture based the way Abrahamic ones are.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I think what you're missing is that you personally have some common sense, more intelligence, thrown into life, and are willing, in many cases to 'alter' the dictates of your faith a bit, whilst many others probably aren't up to that. Your personal experience may well not be the experience of others. With the number of ex-Baha'i' around, I guess that's rather obvious though.

Thank you but I'm just an ordinary guy doing ordinary things. The moment I consider myself more, I am less.

Interesting world in cyberspace with the disaffected Baha'is. I know some of them as they came from my home town in New Zealand.

I like that we are all free to chose our faith and what we believe, and through careful reflection, meditation and prayer, can chose the Faith that is right for each of us, and can leave again if we find that is not what we were looking for after all.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The resurrection is just as poweful as the experience of god. How do you separate the two?

Resurrection is an integral and indispensable part of my Faith. It is an experience, but not a belief in a literal physical resurrection.

 

[Dawnofhope]

And this statement is still true. Some of the teachings of your prophet (150 years back) are indeed no longer relevant, (stance on homosexuality for sure) and yet the Governing Body, as far as I know, has always interpreted all the teachings to still be totally relevant, and refuse to overturn any of them based on the above statement. I find that rather odd. But again that's the very nature of infallible prophet religions.

Of course, the other faiths whom you consider some teachings irrelevant often do consider them totally relevant.

I've said little about homosexuality on this thread, as it is a topic that ignites fierce debate and opinions. It is a topic that has become intensely political and polarises people. On each side of the debate there are assumptions and misunderstandings.

I'm good with the Baha'i perspective, and if people want to discuss the issue respectfully and sensitively, I will try to do the same.

 

[Dawnofhope]

That doesn't make sense, Adrian. If sacred scripture is sacred then time period and authors wouldn't matter because everything would be inspired by god. There would not need to be any correcting or clarifying. Once you say a sacred scripture is irrelevant for today, you no longer see the scripture as sacred (eternal use) but limited. That's limiting god.

The obvious example for me is Mosaic law that was revealed to the Hebrew people during the 40 years spent in the desert. Part of that Revelation was to spiritual purify and prepare them for the conquest of the land of Canaan. Part of the law was to create a theocracy or system of law for the governance of the Jewish state. Not all of these laws remain relevant today and some are redundant such as punishments for working on the Sabbath. Similarly the laws on divorce were changed when Jesus came.

Each Manifestation of God reveals laws that are Eternal and that is what you are referring to. These are immutable, unchangeable laws from dispensation to dispensation. To love and respect God, ones parents, to tell the truth. Then there are transient laws that were never meant for Eternity.

That would mean you'd have no need to clarify them if it was only the people who misunderstood it not the inspired people of god.

It is not changing what the Manifestations said or did, but simply understanding it better in light of what is known about history and culture.

That is why it is confusing that you accept other scriptures but only in the interpretations Bahaullah use. That doesn't sound like you accept other scriptures as they are inspired by god and written by god inspired people. I honestly don't know why you'd use any of the scriptures because of this.

It is hard for you to accept that one Manifestation of God has the authority from God to abrogate and change laws that the previous Manifestation of God revealed. There are clear examples with Christ in regards to Judaism, Islam with both Christianity and Judaism, the Babi religion in regards Islam, and of course now the Baha'i Faith.

How would god's inspired people mistranslate something god told them?

Because they translated according to their limited human understanding, not what God revealed to them. Jesus spoke in Aramaic, the gospels were written in Greek, later translated into Latin, and then there have been various attempts and revisions into English.

The first English translation of the Holy Quran was by Rodwell, a Christian, whose purpose was to discredit Islam.

 

[Vinayaka]

I like that we are all free to chose our faith and what we believe, and through careful reflection, meditation and prayer, can chose the Faith that is right for each of us, and can leave again if we find that is not what we were looking for after all.

Yes, thank goodness for freedom of religion. Unbelievably, many folks don't realise they have this right, just as many folks don't realise they have the right to walk out of a hospital. (At least that's true in Canada. You just have to give a note to the staff removing them from any responsibility.)

I'm sure it's tough some days, like in walking out of abusive marriages. Sometimes the person just has nowhere else to go.

 

[Vinayaka]

I've said little about homosexuality on this thread,

Sometimes silence speaks volumes.

But homosexuality was just one example of where I find the Baha'i' seem out of touch. It has been 150 years after all. So much has changed. and is continuing to change at an alarming rate. So many new moral decisions like the right to die, genetic manipulation, new pollutants, all because of technology. And the Baha'i' have no real way to discuss stuff, as it simply wasn't there in Baha'u'llah's time.

 

[Vinayaka]

Then to each his own. The thing is we have tye authentic Writings of a recent Manifestation of God and records of the past the longer one goes back become harder to authenticate word for word.

.

You think somehow that if you put the word 'authentic' in front of something, that that makes them authentic?

My grand uncle was a renowned story teller. He'd gather people around to tell a story, and his first words were always, "Now this is the truth!" After a few years I figured out his code. What he really meant was he was about to tell us a huge lie. (He had a knack for reading western outdoor themed adventure stories and turning them into first person narratives.)

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So what exactly then, is the House of Justice? Why have it at all?

This answer was given to a specific point and with your question can have a differnt response.

The Universal House of Justice was ordained by Baha'u'llah to carry into the Future the required guidance given by Baha'u'llah for all Humanity.

Hierarchy is "a system in which members of an organization or society are ranked according to relative status or authority."

There is no individual rank in the Baha'i Faith, the Elected people that form the Universal House of Justice hold not status as an individual, the body as a whole is the Authority. The Appointed people to advisory rolls, hold no rank.

synonyms are pecking order, ranking, grading, ladder,social order, social stratum, social scale,class system.

There is none of this in the Baha'i Faith

Thus the Institutions we elect and then we then turn to guidance from is the Infallable Universal House of Justice who oversear the National Houses of Justice and the Local Houses of Justice (Currently Spiritual Assemblies at National & Local Levels) and the Appointed arms.of the Faith.

No individual has a 'rank' in any of this system.

We are all Baha'i

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is such a dreadfully sad instruction, because a couple DOES NOT KNOW each other until they understand each other sexually.

Thank you oldbadger.

To me sexual relations has its place, but it can not maintain a strong lasting relationship.

Consider in saying this a Baha'i sees this bond is for eternity, not just for a few years in the sack

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

Thank you oldbadger.

To me sexual relations has its place, but it can not maintain a strong lasting relationship.

Consider in saying this a Baha'i sees this bond is for eternity, not just for a few years in the sack

Regards Tony

Eternity?
Just a few years in the sack?

I'm more crazy about my wife now than ever before. I'm nearly 70!

Question: What did Bahauallah write about gender after death?