How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

You didn't mention the quotes from Genesis 21. How do you explain them? That is not a mistake in recording. Ishmael and his mother are sent away and then the episode about the sacrifice happens and it says it is Isaac. So are you saying Jewish scribes, at some point in time, rewrote the story and switched Isaac for Ishmael?

All we can be certain of is when Baha'u'llah, God's recent Manifestation says it was Ishmael, then it is correct. He is All Knowing so He knows innately. As simple as that. But those who don't have any faith in the Manifestation think He doesn't know what He's talking about but He knows exactly.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes that is the Baha'i' belief. Not facts. Not the belief of nearly all the rest of humanity.

Well none of us have been alive all that time to know. We can only refer to records but ancient records are very possibly inaccurate or been wrongly recorded. All we have is the Manifestation's Word for it but because we believe He is God's Representative, we believe He is correct.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In my view, the innate spiritual knowledge we've attained sticks with us, so each soul starts at the point where they left off. This explains why we have child geniuses, and the vast differences in people as to their spiritual abilities, or wisdom. So you just misunderstood it. Some people come back to the university class.

But since you don't believe in reincarnation at all, I don't see why it would matter to you. It's Hindu.

Fair enough but I thought a completely different environment as in anotyer world with different laws and a spiritual body, we would learn lessons we couldn't possibly learn here.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You mean 'all Baha'i'? Not sure I agree, considering the differences between the 4 main speakers on this thread. Some have far more acceptance of other faiths than others. The variance in tolerance is obvious.

I accept the good things like the morals, ethics, spirituality, virtue, service, worship although I might express it differently to you. There are though, things I don't agree upon just like you don't with me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It would be more correct to say that Baha'u'llah clarifies those teachings. Why? Because the message becomes distorted and confused with the passing of time. Some of the teachings are for a particular people at a particular era and are no longer relevant. The age we live in has particular challenges that were not addressed by previous Manifestations or teachers.

That doesn't make sense, Adrian. If sacred scripture is sacred then time period and authors wouldn't matter because everything would be inspired by god. There would not need to be any correcting or clarifying. Once you say a sacred scripture is irrelevant for today, you no longer see the scripture as sacred (eternal use) but limited. That's limiting god.

Often it is not so much that the scripture is corrupted but the essence of their teachings so profoundly misunderstood so as to make them ineffective.

That would mean you'd have no need to clarify them if it was only the people who misunderstood it not the inspired people of god.

Baha'u'llah's words are clear and relevant at this time. The previous religious teachings appear to lack this.

That is why it is confusing that you accept other scriptures but only in the interpretations Bahaullah use. That doesn't sound like you accept other scriptures as they are inspired by god and written by god inspired people. I honestly don't know why you'd use any of the scriptures because of this.

By adding to it, ignoring some of it, and mistranslating some of it (particularly the symbolic verses).

How would god's inspired people mistranslate something god told them?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hello....
Now...... what has the above question got to do with anything which I mentioned in my post? If you will ask such questions it would really help if you explain their relevence to what I wrote to Ingledsva?


Again..... that has nothing to do with women choosing to be politicians, or, say, fighter pilots, or anything else.
How does the fact that women can be mothers affect their life choices?


Now, please, you go back, copy where I mentioned women in my post, and paste it into your next post to me!
You need to answer my points, surely?


I could easily focus upon female equality in a Bahai World, but since I DID NOT I won't get involved with your questions about women.
Where did you dig up the idea that I posted about women?


OK..... I'm going to paste in the points I made to Ingledsva..... here we go.
Equality for all = both sexes!

sexual partnership and marriage = both sexes!
Laws on voting rights would exclude all non-bahais = both sexes!

Ruling Bahais = at most levels .....both sexes!

See? So, although I would have issues about gender equality in a bahai world........ I never mentioned this. So your view of what I wrote cannot have been objective.


The above comment is prejudiced, utterly prejudiced. Our most warrior-like PM (UK) in the last 60 years has been a WOMAN!


Where did I mention this stuff?
OK.... so Bahais in a bahai world would support and control military forces.


I never mentioned anything to do with women on the UHJ in my post, so I'm not going there just now.


I never mentioned any bahai divisions of the sexes.
But you just have, and you've told the world about how a Bahai Government in a Bahai World would be a military power, and you've told us how any attempts to recover power by any secular movement could be seen as bad.,.. could be described as 'hitler like'............

You did not address one single point that I made to Ingledsva, but just chucked all manner of bad facts about bahai (imo) into the debate.

Sorry. But I posted to you instead of Ingledsva. Wasn't your post I meant to address so sincere apologies. Sorry.

 

[Vinayaka]

Well none of us have been alive all that time to know. We can only refer to records but ancient records are very possibly inaccurate or been wrongly recorded. All we have is the Manifestation's Word for it but because we believe He is God's Representative, we believe He is correct.

Yes that is the Baha'i' belief. Most of us on this thread know that by now. We non-Baha'i's don't believe it, but since we've heard this or something similar at least 100 times we know it's your belief. Reiteration of the same thing is just redundancy, not debate.

 

[Vinayaka]

Fair enough but I thought a completely different environment as in anotyer world with different laws and a spiritual body, we would learn lessons we couldn't possibly learn here.

Many Hindu schools including mine believe that is indeed the case after moksha, before the absolute final merger, when even the individual soul's identity merges with Brahman.

 

[Vinayaka]

I accept the good things like the morals, ethics, spirituality, virtue, service, worship although I might express it differently to you. There are though, things I don't agree upon just like you don't with me.

So which things about Baha'i' don't you agree with?

 

[loverofhumanity]

No there isn't. That is what you as a Baha'i believe.

Abram tossed Hagar and Ishmael out into the desert.

Thus the ONLY son with Abram was Isaac.

Are we supposed to believe Abram ran around the desert and cities trying to find Ishmael so he could sacrifice him instead of the son that was right there at his side?

*

Then to each his own. The thing is we have tye authentic Writings of a recent Manifestation of God and records of the past the longer one goes back become harder to authenticate word for word.

We understand that in such a case a recent Manifestation's authenticated Scripture trumps thousand year old records which world for word cannot be fully authenticated.

According to the Quran the sacrifice was offered before Isaac was born.

Muhammad and Islam were prophesied in the Bible in many places.

 

[Vinayaka]

All we can be certain of is when Baha'u'llah, God's recent Manifestation says it was Ishmael, then it is correct. He is All Knowing so He knows innately. As simple as that. But those who don't have any faith in the Manifestation think He doesn't know what He's talking about but He knows exactly.

Yes that is the Baha'i' belief. We get it. Baha'u'llah speaks the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 

[Vinayaka]

Then to each his own. The thing is we have tye authentic Writings of a recent Manifestation of God and records of the past the longer one goes back become harder to authenticate word for word.

We understand that in such a case a recent Manifestation's authenticated Scripture trumps thousand year old records which world for word cannot be fully authenticated.

According to the Quran the sacrifice was offered before Isaac was born.

Muhammad and Islam were prophesied in the Bible in many places.

Yes that is the Baha'i' belief.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Many Hindu schools including mine believe that is indeed the case after moksha, before the absolute final merger, when even the individual soul's identity merges with Brahman.

The Baha'i Writings say we will 'meet God in the world of eternity'. Interesting comparison.

The rewards of the other world are peace, the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity. Abdul-Baha

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes that is the Baha'i' belief.

It's Faith that the Manifestation is from God. It all really comes down to belief in the infallibility of the Manifestation. That is the foundation of our religion.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes that is the Baha'i' belief. We get it. Baha'u'llah speaks the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

What if it's true and He is appointed directly by God?

 

[loverofhumanity]

So which things about Baha'i' don't you agree with?

I meant you and I might not agree on certain issues.

 

[Vinayaka]

The Baha'i Writings say we will 'meet God in the world of eternity'. Interesting comparison.

The rewards of the other world are peace, the spiritual graces, the various spiritual gifts in the Kingdom of God, the gaining of the desires of the heart and the soul, and the meeting of God in the world of eternity. Abdul-Baha

It wouldn't be anywhere close to the same thing. For starters God is not separate from His own creation, so it's impossible (in monistic Hinduism) to meet God. Besides that, the Baha'i' and other Abrahamics believe the individual ego/identity continues, whereas Hindus believe it is the Atman.

 

[Vinayaka]

What if it's true and He is appointed directly by God?

You've said this before several times too. It's getting redundant. Anything new?

What if it's not? Right now on this planet you're outnumbered by about 1000 to one in that belief, lol?

 

[Vinayaka]

If Baha'u'llah would have said the earth is flat, or that other Baha'i's live on Mars, or that cats are actually dogs in disguise, I have absolutely no doubt Baha'i's would believe it. Such is the reality of infallibility.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes that is the Baha'i' belief. Most of us on this thread know that by now. We non-Baha'i's don't believe it, but since we've heard this or something similar at least 100 times we know it's your belief. Reiteration of the same thing is just redundancy, not debate.

Ok but these Beings influence all humanity all the time and even after They've passed away so how can They not be from God that is the debate?