How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

The fact that women can be appointed to something doesn't overrule the fact they can't get elected to the Top position.

But appointed? I thought it was only elections. How much of the governing system is appointed? (Besides the two successive successors, I mean)

There is no 'Top Spot' in the Baha'i Faith.

A top spot may be to give ones life so all people can find the Unity Humanity strives for. Many of those were great Women.

The Top Spot could be those that have suffered many years in Irans Prisions being tortured so mankind can find its unity, many again have been and still are now, Great Women. Many are still there, giving thier life so people can drop prejudice and Love our One God in Unity.

Yes there is an Appointed Line. Baha'u'llah gave us the Elected and Learned Lines. The Learned do not lead, they offer guidance to be considered so the elected can consider alternatives.

Regards Tony

im going now from this thread , ive said what i had to say , no need to hold back..ive lost all my peace of mind..in just one day..goodbye..

Always be well and Happy and we will meet in time. Regards Tony

I don't have a blanket denial as I do a blanket "go ask someone wiling to lie about it." Given the natural structure of how things are made of smaller upon smaller parts which build upon larger and larger parts (such as atoms-cells-tissues-organsisms-ecosystems-planets-solar systems-galaxies-why not universes

This has been confirmed in the Baha'i Writings. A provisional translation of yhe "Tablet of the Universe" by Abdul'baha is available.

You may enjoy reading it. I can post a link if you wish. Regards Tony

I thought I knew a little about the different religions, but I never knew that the Quran had all this stuff in it. I thought all that kind of talk was new and from only the Baha'is.

There is a lot we do not consider. It is offered that if one takes on a search, all that Baha'u'llah offers to be so, will be found to be so.

Each individual must want to search though.

Regards Tony

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This has been confirmed in the Baha'i Writings. A provisional translation of yhe "Tablet of the Universe" by Abdul'baha is available.

It has not been confirmed because we do not know if anything lies outside of our own universe.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is no 'Top Spot' in the Baha'i Faith.

There is a lot we do not consider. It is offered that if one takes on a search, all that Baha'u'llah offers to be so, will be found to be so.

Each individual must want to search though.

Regards Tony

Sorry. I meant the House of Justice. I thought you would have figured that out.

Many religions offer that if you take a search, you will come to their findings. I consider that to be ethnocentric. (Perhaps religiocentric is a better word, but I don't think it's a word.) In my very different paradigm, we don't see it that way at all. We see that the individual can search, and if he's lucky, he'll find a path that's suitable to him. We don't name Hinduism as the end that he should find. Whatever he finds that gives him serenity and contentment and love is fine.

Not all individuals feel any draw for any kind of search at all. That too is fine.
Still others, like me, never ever searched. My faith came to me, which is also more in line with the Hindu paradigm.

 

[Vinayaka]

It has not been confirmed because we do not know if anything lies outside of our own universe.

Nothing can be confirmed by a book. It's all opinion. We're not doing physics or solving mathematical equations, lol.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It has not been confirmed because we do not know if anything lies outside of our own universe.

Knowledge is choice.

Not everything needs proof and not all we know has proof.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not all individuals feel any draw for any kind of search at all. That too is fine.
Still others, like me, never ever searched. My faith came to me, which is also more in line with the Hindu paradigm.

Yes the is so. My wife found the Baha'i Faith by reading a prayer.

What I found after excepting there was a God and finding Faith, that in life, if we want to really find what we beleive, we will always have to commence a search.

How can one break free unless they find what they have to break free from? What happens if the key you are looking for is in the Writings of Baha'u'llah. It could be the goal you are chasing!

Life is all about choice and our ardour in searching for all Truth.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't think in terms of religious law, like that. Hinduism doesn't really have any hard and fast laws like that any more. Some old brutal ones have long been discarded by 99.9% of us. Civil law does what it has to do to protect the rest of us from repeat performances. Because of karma, what happens to an individual soul takes care of itself.

Civil law, in History, has always bèn based on the Religuous Message accepted by society.

Civil law should be based on Spiritual Principals, to which reward and punishment are the foundation.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sorry. I meant the House of Justice. I thought you would have figured th

Yes I know this, I was suggesting a Baha'i does not see in Faith anything being a 'Top Spot'. There is no aim to be appointed to the Universal House of Justice.

Our aim is to give our life to the Service of Humanity. Baha'u'llah has by His law indicated Women can best serve Humanity when free from the obligation to be appointed to the Universal House of Justice.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

What I found after excepting there was a God and finding Faith, that in life, if we want to really find what we beleive, we will always have to commence a search.

I never searched, and I don't believe people have to search, as there is nothing really to search for. Some stuff just happens.

 

[Vinayaka]

Civil law, in History, has always bèn based on the Religuous Message accepted by society.

Civil law should be based on Spiritual Principals, to which reward and punishment are the foundation.

Regards Tony

I don't really believe in reward and punishment, it's very Abrahamic, and doesn't even work that well. I do believe in rehabilitation of criminals, or guidance for young souls though. Not that many young souls have the ability to listen and learn. Hard to teach a dog algebra.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes I know this, I was suggesting a Baha'i does not see in Faith anything being a 'Top Spot'. There is no aim to be appointed to the Universal House of Justice.

Our aim is to give our life to the Service of Humanity. Baha'u'llah has by His law indicated Women can best serve Humanity when free from the obligation to be appointed to the Universal House of Justice.

Regards Tony

Yes I know that.

Personally, I feel that women perhaps have more innate fairness and justice in them naturally, and make really good fair judges. I've worked under some female school principals. In my very limited experience with that, compassion and insight was greater than in the men. The 'old boys club' is an an archaic institution. But people who hold onto it pay the price. It;s sad than a woman could never be good enough to serve there.

Of course, I don't yet know any Baha'i' women, as none come on these forums. It makes one wonder if they're even allowed.

 

[Vinayaka]

Baha'is say in the future we will be vegetarians. Hindus are already vegetarians. I don't the deeper things of Hinduism, but if we look at basic things like Hatha Yoga and the deep breathing things they do, and meditation techniques, what other religion goes into any of that? All things that have become part of Western society. How about the chakras? Does Baha'u'llah talk about them?

That's just a start. Even Hindus themselves are amazed at the knowledge we discover as we go along. Much of it esoteric, but some very practical stuff too, like ayurveda.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes I know. OTOH, I tolerate Baha'i' exactly as it is and don't try to change it. I practice Hinduism daily, as do about a billion people. We all think it is totally relevant to this age, as it has changed with the times. It's at least 5000 years old, and getting stronger as we speak. Other religions (Greeks, Romans, many smaller ones) have long since come and gone (well, yes there are some revival attempts, but not with substantial numbers) So maybe 100 different smaller faiths have lasted a couple of hundred years. Perhaps that will be the Baha'i' fate as well. Who knows?

The Baha'i claim is that all the big 9 have the same message and same spiritual laws, only the "social" laws change with the time and place. If that were true than 8 of the big 9 should be irrelevant now, but only in regards to the social laws they taught.

This kind of happened when Christianity got going. They didn't want to be obligated to follow the 613 Jewish laws, so they said they weren't necessary anymore. In fact I don't know what Baha'is would call "social" laws that Jesus brought that were only specific to that time.

But, regardless if they had social laws, all the major religions have adapted to social changes. I wonder what the Baha'is will do to adapt if society rejects some of their social laws?

 

[CG Didymus]

Bahaullah had written that All religions of the world, except for a few, are from God:

"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. .... All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose."

Abdulbaha farther elaborated the Words of Bahaullah in more details and had said:

"Blessed souls—whether Moses, Jesus, Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha, Confucius or Muḥammad—were the cause of the illumination of the world of humanity. How can we deny such irrefutable proof? How can we be blind to such light? How can we dispute the validity of Christ? This is injustice. This is a denial of reality. Man must be just. We must set aside bias and prejudice. We must abandon the imitations of ancestors and forefathers. We ourselves must investigate reality and be fair in judgment."

Did Abdulbaha just make Confucius a manifestation?

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes I know that.

Personally, I feel that women perhaps have more innate fairness and justice in them naturally, and make really good fair judges. I've worked under some female school principals. In my very limited experience with that, compassion and insight was greater than in the men. The 'old boys club' is an an archaic institution. But people who hold onto it pay the price. It;s sad than a woman could never be good enough to serve there.

Of course, I don't yet know any Baha'i' women, as none come on these forums. It makes one wonder if they're even allowed.

There is only nine people on the UHJ, for him to say it "frees" women from worrying about serving? But then they might get appointed to some Baha'i position. So what's the difference, elected or appointed?

 

[CG Didymus]

Nothing a good stoning wouldn't cure.

I'm still wondering if they burn an arsonist... what in the world are they going to do with adulterers?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Did Abdulbaha just make Confucius a manifestation?

No. I quote Abdulbaha:


"Buddha also established a new religion, and Confucius renewed morals and ancient virtues...."

"Thou hast written regarding Buddha and Confucius. Buddha was an illustrious personage. Confucius became the cause of civilization, advancement and prosperity for the people of China. Now it is not the time when we discuss concerning the stations and positions of those who are passed away. We must concentrate our attention upon the present. What hath transpired in a former time is past. Now is the time when we restrict our discussion to the Most Great Luminary of Peace and Salvation in the Age, to talk of the Blessed Perfection [Baha’o’llah] and to voice His exhortations, behests and teachings. Buddha and Confucius were kings in bygone ages who have disappeared. Their sovereignty in this world is ended and their cycle is completed. Now the Throne of the Kingdom of Abha is established and the Blessed Perfection is sitting upon the Throne of Grandeur. We must raise this Call, promulgate the Word of God and live in accord with the teachings and advices of the Beauty of Abha."

 

[Vinayaka]

The Baha'i claim is that all the big 9 have the same message and same spiritual laws, only the "social" laws change with the time and place. If that were true than 8 of the big 9 should be irrelevant now, but only in regards to the social laws they taught.

This kind of happened when Christianity got going. They didn't want to be obligated to follow the 613 Jewish laws, so they said they weren't necessary anymore. In fact I don't know what Baha'is would call "social" laws that Jesus brought that were only specific to that time.

But, regardless if they had social laws, all the major religions have adapted to social changes. I wonder what the Baha'is will do to adapt if society rejects some of their social laws?

Actually, the more I reflect on it, I think the Baha'i' will end up as a defunct religion in maybe another 100 years or less. It's just so illogical and full of contradictions. With the internet now, and the inability to keep all of irrational this stuff hidden, I can't see much else happening. Unless of course the House of Justice makes some really dramatic changes to policy, an overhaul. But that would be very unlikely.

 

[Vinayaka]

No. I quote Abdulbaha:


"Buddha also established a new religion, and Confucius renewed morals and ancient virtues...."

"Thou hast written regarding Buddha and Confucius. Buddha was an illustrious personage. Confucius became the cause of civilization, advancement and prosperity for the people of China. Now it is not the time when we discuss concerning the stations and positions of those who are passed away. We must concentrate our attention upon the present. What hath transpired in a former time is past. Now is the time when we restrict our discussion to the Most Great Luminary of Peace and Salvation in the Age, to talk of the Blessed Perfection [Baha’o’llah] and to voice His exhortations, behests and teachings. Buddha and Confucius were kings in bygone ages who have disappeared. Their sovereignty in this world is ended and their cycle is completed. Now the Throne of the Kingdom of Abha is established and the Blessed Perfection is sitting upon the Throne of Grandeur. We must raise this Call, promulgate the Word of God and live in accord with the teachings and advices of the Beauty of Abha."

He was sure proud of his father. The compliments are exemplary.

 

[CG Didymus]

Most plausible explanations, Gods where originally men, most likely Kings, died, mourned, deified and years later are seen as Legends .

A Roman example is Julius Caesar, deified after his death as Divus Iulius, later morphed into Divus Invictus or Sol Invictus, the Sun God.

King Cyrus > The Jewish God ( most prominent one ) .

Have you followed some of the arguments going on here? 'Cause I'd like to hear what you have to say about Jainism being excluded by Baha'is as having a "manifestation" from God as a founder. I'm not sure, but I think they might consider Jainism as only a sect of Hinduism.