How are these Great Beings explained?

[CG Didymus]

The clash is inevitable and something we need to work constructively to resolve where possible. The Baha'is on this thread are more than capable of resolving these differences with the Abrahamic Faiths. Most of us have come from countries or family backgrounds where Christianity or Islam has been the main religion. Some of us converted to the Baha'i Faith as adults and have been adherents of Christianity previously so this is relatively easy. The challenge with the Dharmic Faiths for the Baha'is here, myself included, is that we don't have the same level of knowledge or experience as we do for the Abrahamic Faiths. That's good because its an opportunity to learn. I haven't seen any Baha'is claiming to be experts in Hinduism or Buddhism...

How is the "clash" going in your other threads? In the one about Isaiah you got some input from Christians and Jews. In the Creation one, you got some YEC Christians. How far to you go into trying to find points of unity with them? 'Cause they are so firm into their beliefs that trying to show them how they are wrong is probably not going to do much good. Kind of like here on this thread.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But the quote says that they didn't crucify him. And what would it prove to say they didn't kill his spirit? If people believe that the spirit is immortal, then of course they couldn't kill it?

So on the Hadith. It sounds like they fall into the category of "traditions" of men.

I see it ties into this passage from the Bible
◄ 1 Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."

Thus it appeared to them by killing the Physical Body that they had Killed Christ, but it is clear they killed Him Not.

Regards Tony
◄

 

[CG Didymus]

Good observation. From my experience we did not have the vision of what mass conversion required. it required a Unity of effort on a grand scale, an effort we are just beginning to envisage.

Regards Tony

Hey Tony, I also remember them saying that in a Pilgrim Note it said that the "lessor" peace would happen by the year 2000. What kinds of things are the Baha'is hoping for and planning to do in the immediate future. Considering, in many ways, the world is worse off now then it was back in the 70's?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How is the "clash" going in your other threads? In the one about Isaiah you got some input from Christians and Jews. In the Creation one, you got some YEC Christians. How far to you go into trying to find points of unity with them? 'Cause they are so firm into their beliefs that trying to show them how they are wrong is probably not going to do much good. Kind of like here on this thread.

I would just like to say that it is God that changes hearts. We can only offer the evidence and then each person that reads it has a heart known of God. Each time we attempt to make our heart pure, kindly and radient, the more the heart opens to Gods Gifts.

I long for that heart

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hey Tony, I also remember them saying that in a Pilgrim Note it said that the "lessor" peace would happen by the year 2000. What kinds of things are the Baha'is hoping for and planning to do in the immediate future. Considering, in many ways, the world is worse off now then it was back in the 70's?

The quote was that the Lesser Peace would be established by the end of last century. Personally I see that the establishment did happen. The thoughts of most men are in finding our Unity, thus the path forward is open and ready for the rest to unfold.

We are currently building our Communities with a capacity to embrace that change, with courses based on building virtues and elimination of predudices.

The change is now very rapid.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I would just like to say that it is God that changes hearts. We can only offer the evidence and then each person that reads it has a heart known of God. Each time we attempt to make our heart pure, kindly and radient, the more the heart opens to Gods Gifts.

I long for that heart

Regards Tony

But you know how it goes, a "born-again" Christian has a concept of a three part God. That Christian is also aware the Satan, the god of this world in their beliefs, is trying to trick them. You, the Baha'i gets put into that category. You are deceived in their eyes, whether you know it or not. It is their religion that has purposely built barriers between that are meant to be impenetrable. To enter into a discussion with a Baha'i and to have an open mind is not going to happen.

But, you too, are firm in your beliefs. So how do you reach a point to where there is mutual respect for the other person's beliefs, when you both think the other is wrong?

 

[CG Didymus]

The quote was that the Lesser Peace would be established by the end of last century. Personally I see that the establishment did happen. The thoughts of most men are in finding our Unity, thus the path forward is open and ready for the rest to unfold.

We are currently building our Communities with a capacity to embrace that change, with courses based on building virtues and elimination of predudices.

The change is now very rapid.

Regards Tony

So what is happening in the Middle East could be seen as something that causes all the nations to rise up together and find a way to bring peace?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But you know how it goes, a "born-again" Christian has a concept of a three part God. That Christian is also aware the Satan, the god of this world in their beliefs, is trying to trick them. You, the Baha'i gets put into that category. You are deceived in their eyes, whether you know it or not. It is their religion that has purposely built barriers between that are meant to be impenetrable. To enter into a discussion with a Baha'i and to have an open mind is not going to happen.

But, you too, are firm in your beliefs. So how do you reach a point to where there is mutual respect for the other person's beliefs, when you both think the other is wrong?

Yes my Mother is born again

We can and have agreed to disagree.

Also in saying this I know what she wants me to do, but she can not see what I am telling her. That is what we can not change, that is Gods will for each person.

What I mean there is I have the Love of Christ, I know he is Lord and Saviour, but how can I do what she would love to see? As a Baha'i how could I reject all other Gods Messengers? How do I tell her the Love of Christ embraces all?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So what is happening in the Middle East could be seen as something that causes all the nations to rise up together and find a way to bring peace?

All world events are pointing us to our required unity of purpose. All efforts against unity will hasten the process.

All people suffering injustices are feeding the change as well. God bless them all.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

This may not be the longest thread ever, but it could well be the fastest growing thread ever.....
Not bad, @loverofhumanity !!!

Nice one......

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This may not be the longest thread ever, but it could well be the fastest growing thread ever.....
Not bad, @loverofhumanity !!!

Nice one......

Great to see you here hope you are well and happy.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

This may not be the longest thread ever, but it could well be the fastest growing thread ever.....
Not bad, @loverofhumanity !!!

Nice one......

Yeah, but did you read the entire thing? No commenting unless you're read the entire thing. See you again in 3 months.

 

[loverofhumanity]

These are both Islamic countries. How can you generlise Islam into 'all religions'. Two Islamic countries with heavy fundamentalist leanings do not a world make. I've seen this mistake quite often. It's sad.

You were welcomed in India, in America, in New Zealand, in Australia. in Canada. Wherever freedom of religion is practiced, the Baha'i's will be welcome.

Everyone besides Muslims would be persecuted in those countries, so join the crowd, I guess.

So to me, it just seems like a massive jump from religious philosophical differences to religious persecution. Do you actually see them as one and the same? Are we persecuting you by disagreeing with you?

Not at all. Carlita just brought up the point and you too, that you see our interpretation of other Faiths as disrespectful. So although now this hasn't been an issue, eventually it will. Then we can expect worldwide opposition as promised and that includes the west especially America.

But don't forget. Before Christ was crucified He had Palm Sunday.

How great, how very great is the Cause! How very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause.

Peoples, nations, adherents of divers faiths, will jointly and successively arise to shatter its unity, to sap its force, and to degrade its holy name.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This may not be the longest thread ever, but it could well be the fastest growing thread ever.....
Not bad, @loverofhumanity !!!

Nice one......

Good to see you oldbadger.

 

[Vinayaka]

Not at all. Carlita just brought up the point and you too, that you see our interpretation of other Faiths as disrespectful. So although now this hasn't been an issue, eventually it will. Then we can expect worldwide opposition as promised and that includes the west especially America.

Personally. I think you're reading way too much into it. Disagreeing isn't much more that celebrating the diversity of the planet. Nobody is about to start killing Baha'i'. certainly not Hindus. We respect diversity.

Yes I disagree with the Baha'i' interpretation of Hinduism. It's not Hinduism. But within the Hindu fold itself there are tons of philosophical disagreements. Nobody is killing each other over it.

But yes I've gotten the response, "So you hate me!" just for saying I disagree. A bit of a jump, wouldn't you say?

 

[loverofhumanity]

This may not be the longest thread ever, but it could well be the fastest growing thread ever.....
Not bad, @loverofhumanity !!!

Nice one......

It's a learning process for me. I've learnt some new facts about Hinduism I never knew before coming here thanks mainly to Vinayaka, and I eventually learned how other religions see our interpretation of them from Carlita and Vinayaka.

I just couldn't understand why one wouldn't like our Faith but now I can see that when we say for instance that Buddha taught about God and rebuff reincarnation as well as Muhammad not being the last Prophet and that Christ's resurrection wasn't physical, it is clearer than ever that by our very existence we are more than ruffling a few feathers.

Not to mention, claiming Baha'u'llah to be the Promised One of all Faiths.

Sooner or later if we grow a lot larger, then these issues are going to take over and Teachings like the oneness of humanity will be pushed to the background to try and take on these conflicts.

So we can't, in the long run, avoid a head on collision with religious orthodoxy.

For now though, like I mentioned in another post, like Christ, we are having our 'Palm Sunday' but we all know what came after that don't we?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not at all. Carlita just brought up the point and you too, that you see our interpretation of other Faiths as disrespectful. So although now this hasn't been an issue, eventually it will. Then we can expect worldwide opposition as promised and that includes the west especially America.

But don't forget. Before Christ was crucified He had Palm Sunday.

How great, how very great is the Cause! How very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause.

Peoples, nations, adherents of divers faiths, will jointly and successively arise to shatter its unity, to sap its force, and to degrade its holy name.

If I were to picture it, it is somewhat as if you came into the Catholic Church, say with us in Mass, took the Eucharist, and then as people talked with you after Mass, you tell them you are not Catholic but believe in Christ. As you tell them your belief, they will obviously be offended. Depending on the century, to the point of killing.

Bahai isn't the victim here, though. If I got technically, the Bahai view of god and his manifestations would be victims, but like jesus, it does make sense. I can see why his peers were angry to the point of killing him. It's not a agree-to-disagree matter. Yet, many christians see Christ as the victim when the Jews didn't provoke the matter, it was Christ.

The issue is, no one can debate it because both of you say your beliefs come from god. How can god be a victim? You'd have to see it in another person's shoes. It may make it seem like god is the victim, but he's not. All religions are man-made. All.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Personally. I think you're reading way too much into it. Disagreeing isn't much more that celebrating the diversity of the planet. Nobody is about to start killing Baha'i'. certainly not Hindus. We respect diversity.

Yes I disagree with the Baha'i' interpretation of Hinduism. It's not Hinduism. But within the Hindu fold itself there are tons of philosophical disagreements. Nobody is killing each other over it.

But yes I've gotten the response, "So you hate me!" just for saying I disagree. A bit of a jump, wouldn't you say?

I'm referring to the 'future' not this thread and I'm very grateful it was pointed out to me as I have to learn to see how others see us. And you have really helped me there.

I'm happy you express you views openly. I don't believe anyone hates me at all. Why are you saying that? Where did you get that from.? I want you to tell me when you think I'm wrong. How else am I going to learn? I love the challenge of point and counter point.

But I finally realize we do interpret other Faiths in a way that to them is an insult and that is very important for me to learn that and I'm indebted to you. I acknowledge that it looks that way to you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@loverofhumanity

When I was confirmed, I was very happy. I attended Catholic retreats, groups, Mass everyday, studied at our Church library, and the whole nine yards. Among other things, I found out the political Church's history. It's not the body of Christ, as the Church teaches, but the killing part got me. It wasn't the major but one of the reasons I left the Church, I didn't want to be a part of that history.

The life of another person was more valuable than my own belief system. If a mother can risk her life to safe her child, why would her belief be any different than her life. I brought that up in a chat room and the monitor said it made people uncomfortable to talk about.

In a hypothetical question, knowing now that your belief in and of itself insults others, what would be the reason your belief is more important than the well-being and respect of other people and the rights to their own religions, culture, prophets, and gods?

How far would you go before you put a barrier between compromise and agreement?

 

[loverofhumanity]

If I were to picture it, it is somewhat as if you came into the Catholic Church, say with us in Mass, took the Eucharist, and then as people talked with you after Mass, you tell them you are not Catholic but believe in Christ. As you tell them your belief, they will obviously be offended. Depending on the century, to the point of killing.

Bahai isn't the victim here, though. If I got technically, the Bahai view of god and his manifestations would be victims, but like jesus, it does make sense. I can see why his peers were angry to the point of killing him. It's not a agree-to-disagree matter. Yet, many christians see Christ as the victim when the Jews didn't provoke the matter, it was Christ.

The issue is, no one can debate it because both of you say your beliefs come from god. How can god be a victim? You'd have to see it in another person's shoes. It may make it seem like god is the victim, but he's not. All religions are man-made. All.

What if, what if the Jewish prophecies were pointing to Christ? Then would it have still been right for them to be angry with Him?

At the time Christ appeared, the Jews were awaiting for the Messiah to come. What if they killed their own Messiah?

About religions being man made. Most of the major religions teach there is a God. Were they man made also?