Thank you for the honest questions.
You're welcome. Thank you for your honest answers. Its good to hear your views. Part of good communication is being OK with diversity as you say, and accepting others way of looking at the world, even when we don't agree. I can't imagine we'll disagree there. Agree to disagree, right?
Both. I think I got the gist of it. I just had to put everyone's point of view together and see what you all have in common.
Its what I thought. Sometimes its been hard for you to be clear about what we believe and with different perspectives and voices, but I can see that you have the gist of it.
Never believed in god; so yes, I'm an atheist. It gives mixed messages, but every other religion has it's crink.
I have to remember that about you, as often I've felt like I'm talking to a Christian.
It's (if I remember): Bahai believe in revealed messages of selective religions in a progressive chain until today (and in the future after Bahaullah). Every manifestation is an educator (as you once put it) of god and basically the same as god (as Lover said it in other words). The manifestations teach one central message although their expressions (hence diversity) is different. The central message is unity. Unfortunately, as said by a couple Bahai here, unity hasn't been achieved by other religions because their methods are outdated. Bahaullah came to reconcile (as specifically said by Lover) the methods that failed and brought wars etc. Bahai welcome diversity under one roof, one unity. Bahai so far said they were (basically the only ones) who haven't gone into war like other religions.
Since Bahai promotes peace, challenging discussions, debates, negativity, and so forth are forbidden as quoted from Bahaullah almost recently. It is believed that having a peaceful talk (and I assume that's why you all say "we" believe and "Bahai" believe) doesn't cause wars.
That's certainly shows some understanding of the Baha'i Faith. The main correction I would make is that unity (particularly world unity) has been a central concern of the Baha'i revelation, whereas it hasn't for religions of the past.
In regards to past religions being outdated, I can see that would be irritating for peoples of other faiths. On one hand we are talking about love, peace and unity, and then we say that other faiths are outdated. It certainly appears to be a confusing contradiction of the Baha'i Faith.
Since the teachings of Bahaullah and the prophets come from god, any practitioners who follows these prophets have second say on the authority and facts of their belief than the prophets (as said by Lover). Which insults the practitioners who know more about their own faith than someone who only believes it but doesn't practice.
I wonder if this is the area of greatest disagreement and confusion? Not only do Baha'is tell practitioners of other religions, that their faith is outdated, but then go on to say we know more about their faith than the practitioners of that faith. I must confess that I do this in regards to the Christian Faith frequently and openly, but avoid doing the same for other religions. I can see how that would frustrate and confuse you and quite a few others as well.
No. Either you have one house with many people of different religions or many people of different religions have their own houses. The former welcomes people who agree with being in one house while the latter wants unity but rather stay in their own houses to create it.
That's like saying having one foundation and more than one at the same time. It is what it is. Bahai view of diversity is expressions. The religions in your religion view their expressions as the core of their beliefs. There is no Bahai-christian and Bahai-muslim from a christian and muslim perspective only Bahai.
I like the phrase "it is what it is." Not only do Baha'is believe they have the latest message from God, but that this message is an essential part of the foundation for world peace. That's sounds outrageous, arrogant, grandiose, and condescending. I have to agree it is an astounding claim to make. It is what it is.
You can have diversity working together. You can't have one foundation in a diverse planet.
You reject that it is possible to have one foundation, and I accept that. You propose another approach, which the Baha'is somewhat confusingly will say they agree with. The Baha'is will then say, we need the one foundation as well as the diversity. That's probably where the confusion comes from.
Yes. It's weird form of disagreement. This is mainly from
@InvestigateTruth and
@loverofhumanity though. I say something and if it is disagreed upon, it is backed up by opposing explanations and quotes. It helps better if one says "I disagree and this is why..." so I have the point first and then whatever quotes and explanations given, I know what they are based on.
It
is a weird form of disagreement, I agree. Because the claims of the Baha'i Faith are so far reaching, we tend to focus on areas of agreement rather and lay all our cards on the table with the first conversation. We are respectful, courteous, gentle and peace loving people after all. On the other hand we can be lions and will fearlessly assert the truth of what we believe in if we feel that is what's required.
It's better to view it through the eyes of the Church (or whatever christian denomination a christian is a part of). Just my opinion is reflected on my experiences are partial study rather than sacred text.
That's what I thought. I would argue that you have every right to study and investigate the sacred text independently of the church and come to your own conclusions. However you are much more reverent and respectful of your former faith, than I am. I respect that.
It's the cultural appropriation issue. I saw it in Lover's conversation with
@Vinayaka. I have sensitivity with minority cultures and religious as well as part of two minority cultures. It's one thing when we're just talking about our beliefs. I've actually seen people's religion been torn
from their point of view because of what outsiders do. Well intentioned or not, it rubs me the wrong way.
I get that, and we talked a great deal about it earlier in the thread.
In a sense it is true that the Baha'is are culturally appropriating other faiths. I'm doing it with Christianity, and the early Baha'is did it with Islam. The Muslims didn't agree so they tried to eradicate the early Baha'is (Babis) by killing all our leaders. Literally thousands put to death. Apparently it didn't work. However if you are feeling angry and confused about the Baha'is, I see why. You are not the first and you certainly won't be the last.
Thank you again for your honesty. I'm trying to be honest too about what the Baha'i believe in. Its fine to disagree. We agree to disagree, right?
